Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Not sure why you would be surprised that Chad Pennington would be a good analyst, he was arguably the smartest QB of his time. In fact, he's the only example in the last 20 years or so who was a pretty good QB who had a rag arm, and it was because he was so very smart. And that is football smart, not book smart. Had a good arm before two torn rotator cuffs. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/3/27/4154264/new-york-jets-what-if-wednesday-what-if-chad-pennington-hadnt-gotten You are correct, managed to come back and play well afterwards due to football smarts and hard work. Knew exactly what he could and couldn't do and played within himself.
billykaykay Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Inaccuracy can be caused by many things. Maybe the kid just has poor hand-eye coordination (inferior genetics). That kind of inaccuracy cannot be cured. But other causes can potentially be fixed: * poor timing * poor mechanics * poor poise in the pocket (which leads to poor mechanics) * bad route running by the WRs * unfamiliarity with the speed & route tendencies of the WRs * poor progressions (you're more likely to complete the pass if you're throwing to the open guy) * and so on. The QB coach last year said EJ's biggest accuracy problem was in fact poor timing. Too often EJ was accurately throwing to where the guy was, instead of where he would be. Then again, I've seen EJ cleanly launch some long balls that were off target which makes me worry about his natural accuracy. You forgot "confidence" or lack thereof.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) It's not really improving accuracy, his comment reflects the fact that lack of timing and familiarity with your receivers comes across as poor accuracy. EJ has the most comfort level with Woods, and my casual empiricism says that stats probably show a greater level of accuracy with Woods than any other receiver on the Bills. That said, EJ may or may not be an accurate passer, but CP is right that it takes time to develop the chemistry. I hope he gets a chance to prove himself, but I doubt it will happen. One thing that doesn't get much airplay here is the comments that were made about the sloppiness of the Bill's receivers routes. This was after Orton took over and reportedly got in guys' grills and told them if they didn't hustle and get open in practice he wasn't going to throw to them on Sunday. I don't remember which commentator it was, but IIRC it was someone who ought to know his WR and his route running. So that's another part of the puzzle. If the WR aren't running clean routes during a game in a WCO, the QB looks inaccurate. Stories have Brady telling his receivers they need to run a route differently so they don't have to reach for his throws. What I think Pennington may be talking about and Hackett was quoted as saying about EJ (a third piece of the puzzle) is learning to trust the read and react promptly. Brady made that comment about Luck that he was unusually well developed for a young QB in trusting what he sees and making the throws, that if the QB doesn't trust it he delays just a fraction of a second to think, and the ball doesn't come out right. I will say, though, that I see some of the goofiest body positions on some of EJ's throws and that gets back to David Lee in the Fitz days when he commented on footwork being the key to consistant accurate throws. So I can't tell what the answer is - does he need to trust what he sees, better routes, more comfort with his WR, or does he just have broken throwing mechanics? Probably all of the above to some degree. Edited March 3, 2015 by Hopeful
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 OK, this tells me what I need to know. Thank you. (For those who are educable, Pennington had a number of quite good years on a usually quite bad Jets team, had a good year in Miami at age 32, then suffered career-ending shoulder injuries in 2009 and 2010. At one point he was the NFL's all time career leader in completion percentage at 66%.) I would be ecstatic if the Bills had a QB like Pennington was in his 20's to go with our current defense, and so would Rex and Roman. JETS 8-4-0 4-5-0 8-5-0 1-2-0 10-6 1-7 Miami 11-5-0 0-3 1-0 soooo.... Why was he apparently dumped and or benched after those 10 plus season wins?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 EJ has light years to travel before he approaches Pennington's level of function. Now that (and I'm one that hopes EJ will improve) is God's Truth. Pennington sat his first 2 years in the league and didn't start until his 3rd year despite being a 1st round pick, which may have had something to do with his initial success AND his opinion that it takes 3 years for a QB to develop in the NFL.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Chad Pennington is an analyst now, he's surprisingly insightful. Reminds me of how Aikman surprised me as an analyst because i always thought both those guys were dolts. Anyway, Chad said from the NFL combine the other day it takes three years to get it in the NFL as a quarterback. There are exceptions of course, but as far as understanding today's NFL and being able to do well he thinks you need to have that much time. He also said there are several qb's whose accuracy has improved significantly after their rookie season. He said accuracy is developed by throwing to the same receivers over and over, that WR's all have different tendencies, speeds, etc. Even on screen plays and short passes, he said he missed Leon Washington on every screen pass for the first 2 months because he was so quick getting in the flat, and if I remember Pennington was pretty accurate. It got me to thinking that maybe EJ needs one more year with consistent receivers, a solid Oline, coaching and ground game. He's won a bunch of games in this league without those things, I'd like to see what he does with them. One other interesting thing Pennington said was that they need to start having a full defense on the field at the NFL combine when these quarterbacks throw. (that's why he was there, soley to evaluate qb's). He said a lot of passes the draftees threw weren't hitting the magic number of 8 feet above the ground when they crossed the line of scrimmage, and that's simply not realistic. With a full defense out there, it would be easier to evaluate. His analogy was that lots of NFL kickers can boot a kickoff out of the endzone 75 yards away, but on a field goal try, with a wall of defenders in front of them, it's a whole different thing because they need to elevate the ball earlier in the kick. QB throws follow that same logic. For what it's worth, he said Mariota has an excellent touch on the ball and was impressed with the kid in all phases of the combine. Obviously if the Jets take him he will be the enemy, but I'd love to see him go to an NFC team and do well, he's a great kid. yay another ej thread and I always thought chad was smart
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 JETS 8-4-0 4-5-0 8-5-0 1-2-0 10-6 1-7 Miami 11-5-0 0-3 1-0 soooo.... Why was he apparently dumped and or benched after those 10 plus season wins? What part of "usually bad Jets team" leads you to think it's useful to trot out the Jet's W-L record while he was there in discussing Pennington? If you want to know more, you can always check out the links I included or Google. I could be wrong and often am, but this and previous responses seem about being "right" not wanting to learn or even discuss intelligently.
FireChan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 What part of "usually bad Jets team" leads you to think it's useful to trot out the Jet's W-L record while he was there in discussing Pennington? If you want to know more, you can always check out the links I included or Google. I could be wrong and often am, but this and previous responses seem about being "right" not wanting to learn or even discuss intelligently. If Chad Pennington so good, why was Nick Foles benched for Sanchez?!?!? #FactsOnly
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) What part of "usually bad Jets team" leads you to think it's useful to trot out the Jet's W-L record while he was there in discussing Pennington? If you want to know more, you can always check out the links I included or Google. I could be wrong and often am, but this and previous responses seem about being "right" not wanting to learn or even discuss intelligently. QB's are ranked by their Win Loss Record are they not? Also you could use playing time Chad played 2 full seasons out of 8 Over time Pennington had far worse seasons than the 2 successful seasons. Believe it or not... I was actually a Chad Pennington fan when he was playing early on! but I came to accept he was not great. his last 2 seasons in Miami kind of prove that ---------------------- one could say that 4-6 is 1 game under .500, and 2-2 is .500 .......... who just finished up 1 game over .500 in Buffalo, Edited March 3, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 That's fair. You don't always get as much time as you'd like, but you get the time you need. The game is changing and the urgency to win is greater which means the patience for young players, even QB's, to develop is declining. Fair or not it's up or out nowadays. Here's the problem though: it's been commented elsewhere that the overall level of college QB is declining and with the importance of good QB play, what will happen when the current crop of greats such as Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers retire? But what if the quality of college QB hasn't changed all that much? What if it just takes time to develop a good NFL QB, and teams who demand instant gratification will continue to bomb it while those who can stash away a guy to learn win the lottery?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) how many Heisman trophy winners hold a SB victory? Also c an you tell me how many championships were won before the merger? Here's the problem though: it's been commented elsewhere that the overall level of college QB is declining and with the importance of good QB play, what will happen when the current crop of greats such as Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers retire? But what if the quality of college QB hasn't changed all that much? What if it just takes time to develop a good NFL QB, and teams who demand instant gratification will continue to bomb it while those who can stash away a guy to learn win the lottery? Edited March 3, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Lurker Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Inaccuracy can be caused by many things. Maybe the kid just has poor hand-eye coordination (inferior genetics). That kind of inaccuracy cannot be cured. But other causes can potentially be fixed: I'd guess more mental and experience than physical...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Had a good arm before two torn rotator cuffs. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/3/27/4154264/new-york-jets-what-if-wednesday-what-if-chad-pennington-hadnt-gotten You are correct, managed to come back and play well afterwards due to football smarts and hard work. Knew exactly what he could and couldn't do and played within himself. Had a good arm before two torn rotator cuffs. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/3/27/4154264/new-york-jets-what-if-wednesday-what-if-chad-pennington-hadnt-gotten You are correct, managed to come back and play well afterwards due to football smarts and hard work. Knew exactly what he could and couldn't do and played within himself. It was weak before the injuries. After them it was non-existent. He could never throw the deep out kind of pass. Yes, before the injuries his throws had more zip on them, but that was like saying he could throw a 70 mph fastball instead of 60.
ndirish1978 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Trump card played. Fail comment. Maronne flushed the deck by throwing a hissy-fit when he didn't win a power-struggle and quit. I can tolerate a lot of issues, but being a quitter is something you don't come back from. I don't re-hire quitters, they buckle under pressure and bolt.
FireChan Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Fail comment. Maronne flushed the deck by throwing a hissy-fit when he didn't win a power-struggle and quit. I can tolerate a lot of issues, but being a quitter is something you don't come back from. I don't re-hire quitters, they buckle under pressure and bolt. What.
Mr. WEO Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Now that (and I'm one that hopes EJ will improve) is God's Truth. Pennington sat his first 2 years in the league and didn't start until his 3rd year despite being a 1st round pick, which may have had something to do with his initial success AND his opinion that it takes 3 years for a QB to develop in the NFL. Some 1st rounders develop faster than in 3 years. Both Mannings had rough rookie outings, but were OK after that. Ryan, Luck, Stafford, Flacco, Palmer, Rivers, Big Ben, McNabb as well.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Fail comment. Maronne flushed the deck by throwing a hissy-fit when he didn't win a power-struggle and quit. I can tolerate a lot of issues, but being a quitter is something you don't come back from. I don't re-hire quitters, they buckle under pressure and bolt. yup. the very notable event where Marrone was screaming at Whaley (supposedly) over the Watkins trade (and or other QB issues) Edited March 4, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
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