metzelaars_lives Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I would have loved to have seen everyone's responses after Steve Young's first season in Tampa, or Brett Favre's first Season in Atlanta. No one on this board would know a franchise quarterback, even if it came up and bit you in the butt. Including me. Hmm. Not sure what Falcons fans were thinking after Brett Favre attempted 4 passes for them his rookie year but in his second year after he got traded to Green Bay, he was awesome in his second ever appearance against Cincinnati and he started every game thereafter for the duration of his career with Green Bay. In fact in 13 games that season, he was 8-5 for a middling Green Bay team and put up way better numbers than Manuel has through his first 14 games 20+ years ago when QB numbers were not nearly as inflated as they are now. So in other words, Brett Favre was a really bad example. Edited February 28, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Obviously nobody can tell the future and knows for certain what will happen with this kid. However, there's 2 years worth of watching this kid play in training camp, in the pre-season and during the regular season that tells me he's a long shot from even being an average QB ranked in the middle of the league. For the last 2 years he's been a bottom tier QB who has looked no better in year 2 than he did as a rookie. If people want to cling onto hope that the light will magically turn on and he'll be the guy we all hoped then that's fine. I'll stick with the information we have available that points to this kid never being any good. He definitely had moments in his rookie year that demonstrated could be a solid NFL starter. To pretend like he didn't means you just can't give him any credit.
KGUNBILLS Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I just can't see it. Maybe I'm wrong. He just doesn't display the raw talent to make me believe that he will develop into a great QB. It also seems as though he was handled with "kid gloves" on the offensive play calls in the past compared to other QB's we've had. What I mean by that is extremely ultra conservative (safe) play calling when he is at the helm. I hope one day we have a real franchise QB, but for now, I just can't see it.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I just can't see it. Maybe I'm wrong. He just doesn't display the raw talent to make me believe that he will develop into a great QB. It also seems as though he was handled with "kid gloves" on the offensive play calls in the past compared to other QB's we've had. What I mean by that is extremely ultra conservative (safe) play calling when he is at the helm. I hope one day we have a real franchise QB, but for now, I just can't see it. The team averaged more points per EJ starts than any other Qbs the last 2 years.
FireChan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 The team averaged more points per EJ starts than any other Qbs the last 2 years. EJ was blocking on Special Teams TD's!
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 EJ was blocking on Special Teams TD's!Just like Orton made the Detroit kicker miss three field goals!!! At least EJ led us to a td against Miami and W. How did your sackkless friend with the terrible haircut do?
FireChan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Just like Orton made the Detroit kicker miss three field goals!!! At least EJ led us to a td against Miami and W. How did your sackkless friend with the terrible haircut do? I don't remember mentioning Orton. You know you've already lost when you have to bring up a retired journeyman to defend your boy.
Bangarang Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 He definitely had moments in his rookie year that demonstrated could be a solid NFL starter. To pretend like he didn't means you just can't give him any credit. Are you just going to put words in my mouth now? Player evaluations are based on an entire body of work and not just bits and pieces cherry picked that support whatever you want it to.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I don't remember mentioning Orton. You know you've already lost when you have to bring up a retired journeyman to defend your boy. Lost? A battle to some faceless troll on the Internet? Damn, you ruined my weekend.
FireChan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Lost? A battle to some faceless troll on the Internet? Damn, you ruined my weekend. You're just fighting a losing battle. When you spent all last year saying Orton was garbage, and your defense of EJ was that "he led us to one more TD than Orton (the guy that is garbage)," it's not really a good argument of his ability. You might as well say, "he's better than Blaine Gabbert!"
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Are you just going to put words in my mouth now? Player evaluations are based on an entire body of work and not just bits and pieces cherry picked that support whatever you want it to. It's big picture. giving up on a youngb qb who has had moments after 2 years and a suspect coaching staff is dumb. It's qb in the NFL. It's a process. But fans don't have time for that. This whole thing is stupid. It's like politics. My side is wrong, yours is wrongn. No middle ground. EJ sucks and there is no chance he grows as player. Cut him now!
metzelaars_lives Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) It's big picture. giving up on a youngb qb who has had moments after 2 years and a suspect coaching staff is dumb. It's qb in the NFL. It's a process. But fans don't have time for that. This whole thing is stupid. It's like politics. My side is wrong, yours is wrongn. No middle ground. EJ sucks and there is no chance he grows as player. Cut him now! I disagree with the statement that there is no middle ground. I believe there is lots of middle ground and that is exactly where EJ stands. I think the jury is still out on whether or not Manuel develops into a starting caliber QB in the NFL. All I have said is that I find it unlikely that he does based on what I've seen and I really think that when they bring in a veteran FA (and there will be snickering whoever it is) that that player is likely to beat out Manuel for the job in camp. Do you see where I'm coming from? Not once have I said that the book is shut on Manuel. But that being said, if Ryan & co. were to watch enough film of him and make up their minds that it's not happening for Manuel, I would certainly respect their decision. I don't think that's going to happen however. I think he will get a shot. I just don't think he'll win the job. That's all. So does this make me a "hater?" Edited February 28, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Bangarang Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) It's big picture. giving up on a youngb qb who has had moments after 2 years and a suspect coaching staff is dumb. It's qb in the NFL. It's a process. But fans don't have time for that. This whole thing is stupid. It's like politics. My side is wrong, yours is wrongn. No middle ground. EJ sucks and there is no chance he grows as player. Cut him now! Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Vince Young etc etc.. All these guys had moments that make you think they could solid be QBs in the league. The problem is none of them could have those moments consistently. Up until this point, EJ has yet to show any kind of consistency that makes me think he's anything more than a bottom tier starter or career backup. I let the information available from the last two years dictate my opinion. EJ will get his chance to compete and nothing anyone here says will change that. I'm just simply not holding my breath that being benched and having limited reps throughout the season will suddenly fix his biggest flaws. Edited February 28, 2015 by Bangarang
Dr. Fong Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 NO!!!! Sitting in the stands during the San Diego game convinced me. He had an entire offseason, and had gotten worse with accuracy and the deep ball. Yeah well I was sitting in the stands when Aaron Rodgers played the Bills and he looked like garbage sack. The Packers should probably cut him.
Kemp2Warlick Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I voted no....will the Bills give him a chance to be?.....not unless they're forced to with the lack of QBs available. JMO
Dennis in NC Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 There are only so many franchise QBs to go around. Sorry, but we can not all have one. This year's draft has zero franchise QBs, according to the book of Mel. I don't know WHO is good at scoping them out in any given draft. A guy could likely make a fortune as a consultant if he could consistently pick franchise QBs out of the college crop.
1billsfan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, Vince Young etc etc.. All these guys had moments that make you think they could solid be QBs in the league. The problem is none of them could have those moments consistently. Up until this point, EJ has yet to show any kind of consistency that makes me think he's anything more than a bottom tier starter or career backup. I let the information available from the last two years dictate my opinion. EJ will get his chance to compete and nothing anyone here says will change that. I'm just simply not holding my breath that being benched and having limited reps throughout the season will suddenly fix his biggest flaws. Gabbert and Ponder? This is why it's so hard to argue with some of you. Manuel showed much more promise than those two useless QBs. Check the stats. Locker is clearly comparable and on the same level as Manuel. Although I think that changes after Roman gets a hold of Manuel and coaches him up. Edited February 28, 2015 by 1billsfan
Bangarang Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Gabbert or Ponder? This is why it's so hard to argue with some of you. Manuel showed much more promise than those two useless QBs. Check the stats. Locker is clearly comparable and on the same level as Manuel. Although I think that changes after Roman gets a hold of Manuel and coaches him up. The point isn't who is better between Gabbert, Ponder or EJ. The point is that each of those QBs had moments where they demonstrated competence. The problem with all of them is that they didn't have any kind of consistency that would make them good starting QBs. Having infrequent moments of good play doesn't make a franchise QB. That is the point. It's not about whether or not EJ had a few better games than Gabbert or EJ had some stats better than Ponder. The point still stands that neither of those guys have played well enough consistently to establish themselves as solid QBs. That's why, when you say EJ had moments of decent play I just throw that aside because just about every bust that has come into the NFL has had their own share of moments. Ultimately though, fans are going to interpret what qualifies as a "moment" differently. I'm not going to waste my time trying to discuss why EJ is or isn't better than some of the other scrubs that never made it as a franchise QB. It's pointless and accomplishes nothing. Having moments of decency shouldn't trump an entire body of work. That's not how talent evaluation is done. If you want to say that you want to see EJ start again because of those moments then fine, that's your opinion. I've watched all the available film on this kid to know that I haven't seen nearly enough that makes me think he's going to even be an average starter much less a franchise QB. It's not about pretending to be able to predict the future or some personal vendetta I have against him. It's about letting his body of work dictate my opinion on him now and how I see his career going forward. Edited February 28, 2015 by Bangarang
Direhard Fan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Didn't think the Mc Cown lose was bad. 35 and 1 and 10. Please. Give EJ a full season and tell him he is the man. Let him have the team and the backing and see what happens. Can't do any worse. Spend our money on resigns and let EJ know we have his back. I think he has a future.
Sojourner Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 What's hilarious is the amount of people, who are fans of this team, are enjoying the possibility of the Bills dismissing a young QB. Nearly every person who wasn't a Bills fan that I talked to last season consistently told me "your team gave up on that Manuel kid a bit early". These were Saints fans, Packers fans, Fish fans,Jet fans, Cheats fans, Charger fans and 9er fans. All these other QBs being mentioned in this thread - save for Locker (due to injuries) - have showed way less than Manuel and their respective teams stuck with them for at least 2-3 seasons. EJ hasn't exactly been absolutely phenomenal but he hasn't been completely inept. In his worst games he's still had some kind of production. I don't think the kid at this point in time is a franchise QB but he's certainly not at the point where you give up completely on him either. As long as he's on our team and has a chance to be our starter. I'll roll with EJ. Not the worst we could manage.
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