Is EJ a franchise QB?

[Tampa Bob]

 

BS. Brady once he took over hardly ever "let it rip" which is what you would be suggesting with the whole "confidence out of the gates"/"turnovers might be higher". Each path is different, there isn't a mold for how a QB becomes great - it develops and they grow into it.

The majority of what tends to kill a QB is not early slides, floaters or check downs but more often than not a blindside hit that completely derails their patience (happy feet/seeing ghosts) in games or one that costs them an injury that they never truly get over - the list of those types of QBs AND players is endless.

 

I will say the one thing I agree with all the EJ doubters is that he plays scared.

OK whatever. Brady may have been conservative as a first time starter, but you might be the only person on the planet who thinks he didn't have confidence. There is a major difference between the way Brady played in his 2nd year and the way EJ played in his 2nd year. Brady was a winner from day one and he made key plays when he had to.

 

I also really don't know the difference between playing scared and lacking confidence.

[JohnC]

Do you seriously think the above is possible, or is this you being polite? 10-6 with Manuel starting 16 games? Really? When you say "possible," what percentage are you feeling? 5%? 10%? 50%?

 

If EJ starts 16 games and wins 10, I will be the happiest AND most shocked Bills Fan in the continental USA.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last year I watched some Oakland and Minnesota games. Two rookies, Carr and Bridgewater, both showed flashes, albeit, sporadicly, where they demonstrated that they were more accurate and had a better feel for the pocket than EJ ever demonstrated. EJ has a very strong arm but lacks the required consistency and accuracy in his throws. When you watch him play he is very mechanical and lacks the naturalness (feel) that the other two qbs in spurts demonstrated.

 

For the most part even EJ advocates acknowledge that the best approach to take with him is to tightly manage him by keeping the offense simple and placing him in the category as a game manager. That restrictive approach makes sense for a veteran qb with less physical skills who knows how to play the position. It makes little sense for a relatively young qb who has limited upside.

 

Buddy Nix very much set this franchise back. His selection as a GM was an embarrassment. He forced the issue in drafting a qb in a bad qb year. He drafted in the first round a prospect who should have been rated as a third round prospect.

 

I'm not an EJ basher. And I am not a Marrone basher. the departed HC made the right decision in benching EJ for a very mediocre veteran qb who although couldn't play an longer knew how to play the position. What does it say about EJ's prospect when a wretched qb such as Orton is thought to give the team the best chance to win?

Edited March 1, 2015 by JohnC

[Rob's House]

He is not a franchise QB today.

 

I don't believe EJ will ever be a "franchise" QB.

 

I define franchise QB as a QB that allows the team to win more games than the team would have won if the QB were replaced by an average QB.

 

These people think he will be a franchise QB one day, and/or think "he has the potential to be."

 

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Fixed.

 

The question wasn't whether they thought he had the potential to be, but whether they thought he would be. It was a straightforward asked using unambiguous language. People who can't answer a simple yes or no question with a simple yes or no piss me off.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Rob's House

[Matt in KC]

Fixed.

 

The question wasn't whether they thought he had the potential to be, but whether they thought he would be. It was a straightforward asked using unambiguous language. People who can't answer a simple yes or no question with a simple yes or no piss me off.

Or maybe, just maybe, the reality is more nuanced than a simple yes or no.

[metzelaars_lives]

Do you seriously think the above is possible, or is this you being polite? 10-6 with Manuel starting 16 games? Really? When you say "possible," what percentage are you feeling? 5%? 10%? 50%?

 

If EJ starts 16 games and wins 10, I will be the happiest AND most shocked Bills Fan in the continental USA.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I was being polite. Possible as in I consider it within the realm of physical possibilities. I do not consider it a physical possibility for him to develop into a guy who is taking charge, grabbing guys by the face mask, barking signals and leading two touchdown fourth quarter comebacks. But I suppose it's within the realm of possibilities that the Bills- outside of the QB position- have a top 5 roster in the NFL this season and if he is able to play the way he did against Chicago- make a few throws and avoid the big mistake- then yes, I think there is a 5-10% chance that EJ could win us 10 games. This is by no means a ringing endorsement.

Edited March 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[FluffHead]

Wait, so there are people out there who think EJ will be a franchise QB?

 

Have these people watched football before?

 

He was never even elite as a college Qb

Edited March 1, 2015 by FluffHead

[purple haze]

Since I had to pick one, I went yes. He has all the tools and the work ethic. Franchise, to me, in this context, is a QB who can lead, make some plays, but doesn't make costly turnovers. I'm not saying he will equate with Brady, Brees, Manning, etc. Can he be in the Kaepernick, Tannehill class. I definitely think he can. Which is enough for them to win with that defense and a running game.

 

For all the vitriol EJ gets, he has shown flashes of what he's capable of. His issue is consistency, and the fact he was coached into not using his mobility at all.

[Beerball]

People who can't answer a simple yes or no question with a simple yes or no piss me off.

I'm kinda with you on this, I think.

[billsfan1959]

Seeing as I said "second season," that question is invalid. After RG3's second year, I was quite confident in saying he was done.

 

The point was Steve Young and Favre turned it around. And 50 others (at least) didn't. If my record was 48-2, I'd say I know what a franchise QB looks like.

Actually, you would only know what a franchise QB looks like if you picked the two that were. Otherwise, since true franchise QBs are rare, saying everyone of them will not be a franchise QB will make you right the vast majority of the time - but, still doesn't mean you have any idea what a franchise QB looks like.

Edited March 1, 2015 by billsfan1959

[Cold Front]

NO

[FireChan]

Actually, you would only know what a franchise QB looks like if you picked the two that were. Otherwise, since true franchise QBs are rare, saying everyone of them will not be a franchise QB will make you right the vast majority of the time - but, still doesn't mean you have any idea what a franchise QB looks like.

I have picked what they look like. I just happened to be wrong about those two.

[Rob's House]

Or maybe, just maybe, the reality is more nuanced than a simple yes or no.

No, it's really not. It actually couldn't be less nuanced or more simple. He didn't ask you whether he will or won't be anything, nor did he ask for probabilities. I'll repeat the question in a way that you can hopefully understand:

 

If you had a gun to your head and your life depended on the accuracy of your prediction, and the only possible answers are yes and no, do you think EJ Manuel will become a franchise QB?

 

The only room for nuance or interpretation is how you define "franchise QB". I swear, I can see some on this board at the roulette table explaining how you can't simply bet on red because the reality is too unknown and nuanced.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Rob's House

[FireChan]

No, it's really not. It actually couldn't be less nuanced or more simple. He didn't ask you whether he will or won't be anything, nor did he ask for probabilities. I'll record the question in a way that possibly even you can understand:

 

If you had a gun to your head and your life depended on the accuracy of your prediction, and the only possible answers are yes and no, do you think EJ Manuel will become a franchise QB?

 

The only room for nuance or interpretation is how you define "franchise QB". I swear, I can see some on this board at the roulette table explaining how you can't simply bet on red because the reality is too unknown and nuanced.

There's definitely the potential for it to land on red, but will it reach that potential? I don't know. Maybe.

[fansince88]

I voted yes because I feel that moron and Hackett misused him. Year one he came out with the hurryup and had no clue yet how to play the position as a NFL QB. Second year they changed it all around on him and the OL sucked more the first 1/2 of the year than it did the second. We could not run the ball and always ran when we should have thrown. Im good with competition at the position. Think with this staff that EJ will excel.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

No, it's really not. It actually couldn't be less nuanced or more simple. He didn't ask you whether he will or won't be anything, nor did he ask for probabilities. I'll record the question in a way that possibly even you can understand:

 

If you had a gun to your head and your life depended on the accuracy of your prediction, and the only possible answers are yes and no, do you think EJ Manuel will become a franchise QB?

 

The only room for nuance or interpretation is how you define "franchise QB". I swear, I can see some on this board at the roulette table explaining how you can't simply bet on red because the reality is too unknown and nuanced.

 

Now this is just getting stupid. I can see the point of saying "here's the question, either answer it or say 'it's not a very meaningful question' and deal yourself out".

But making analogies about guns and roulette tables, this is just stupid now. It's a message board, for cripes sake. Neither world peace, whirled peas, or life and limb depend on anything stated here and it's just dumb to cast such a scenario as "a way possibly even (whoever) can understand".

 

If pundits who are paid to deliver "expert opinions" had guns to their heads and their lives depending upon the accuracy of their predictions about young QB, there'd be a whole lot of dead pundits, OK? So bringing that analogy onto a fan message board is taking this all way too seriously. Get a Grip.

[fansince88]

Fixed.

 

The question wasn't whether they thought he had the potential to be, but whether they thought he would be. It was a straightforward asked using unambiguous language. People who can't answer a simple yes or no question with a simple yes or no piss me off.

So you wanted us to just click yes or no without any dialogue? You should have explained with your opening statement that you only wanted the poll to be answered and there to be no discussion. Are you saying that I failed the test

[Rob's House]

 

Now this is just getting stupid. I can see the point of saying "here's the question, either answer it or say 'it's not a very meaningful question' and deal yourself out".

But making analogies about guns and roulette tables, this is just stupid now. It's a message board, for cripes sake. Neither world peace, whirled peas, or life and limb depend on anything stated here and it's just dumb to cast such a scenario as "a way possibly even (whoever) can understand".

 

If pundits who are paid to deliver "expert opinions" had guns to their heads and their lives depending upon the accuracy of their predictions about young QB, there'd be a whole lot of dead pundits, OK? So bringing that analogy onto a fan message board is taking this all way too seriously. Get a Grip.

So you wanted us to just click yes or no without any dialogue? You should have explained with your opening statement that you only wanted the poll to be answered and there to be no discussion. Are you saying that I failed the test

Dialogue in the thread is great, but the poll didn't leave room for equivocation. Edited March 1, 2015 by Rob's House

[fansince88]

Dialogue in the thread is great, but the poll didn't leave room for equivocation.

Dialogue is necessary in such a question. Equivocation is to use unclear language to conceal what one is really trying to say. When I voted yes that binds me to a yes if those things that surround EJ play out to his benefit. We don't know how things will play out for him this year so that makes it tough to say yes or no. Does that make sense the way I explained it? At least this post stayed on topic and we are not discussing global warming by the 10th page.

[Bangarang]

Dialogue is necessary in such a question. Equivocation is to use unclear language to conceal what one is really trying to say. When I voted yes that binds me to a yes if those things that surround EJ play out to his benefit. We don't know how things will play out for him this year so that makes it tough to say yes or no. Does that make sense the way I explained it? At least this post stayed on topic and we are not discussing global warming by the 10th page.

The poll is just asking for your opinion on whether or not you think EJ will be a franchise QB. My goodness, I don't know what's so hard about this. Are people just afraid to say what they actually think about this kid so they stick with the politically correct answer of "we don't know yet"?

Edited March 1, 2015 by Bangarang

[fansince88]

The poll is just asking for your opinion on whether or not you think EJ will be a franchise QB. My goodness, I don't know what's so hard about this. Are people just afraid to say what they actually think about this kid so they stick with the politically correct answer of "we don't know yet"?

For the third time in three posts on this particular forum I voted yes. That said don't say you don't want explanations on a FORUM that is meant for DIALOGUE. It is pretty simple that people are using this very pointed yes or no forum to state their reasoning behind their answer. I tend to believe that EJ turns a corner BECAUSE of the change in coaching staff. That said take this poll if he does and the numbers are changed. Time will tell.