8-8 Forever? Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 don't know yet. he was pulled pretty fast last year. obviously Marrone's judgement is open to question at this point. so who knows. Marrone was acting in his own self interest last year
Kemp Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 He would be the first franchise quarterback who can't throw a football very well. He could become a starter for a team that had awful alternatives, though.. Oops. That already happened, so I guess he already is a franchise quarterback.
RealityCheck Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 No. I don't think that EJ Manuel is a franchise qb. Unrealized potential is a problem for everyone. "Obviously", everybody can be better at what they do. Perfection is a road after all, not a destination. He does however, have Trent Edwards' disease. When teams rush 3 and drop 8, he hesitates and the play ends up busted or is a check down. Edwards was actually quite good against blitzes and man coverage. The soft zone stuff was his kryptonite. The top QBs chew those defenses up. The lousy ones hold onto the ball and bad things happen. Manuel in his second year should have improved in this area and he regressed instead.
Bill from NYC Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 No. I don't think that EJ Manuel is a franchise qb. Unrealized potential is a problem for everyone. "Obviously", everybody can be better at what they do. Perfection is a road after all, not a destination. He does however, have Trent Edwards' disease. When teams rush 3 and drop 8, he hesitates and the play ends up busted or is a check down. Edwards was actually quite good against blitzes and man coverage. The soft zone stuff was his kryptonite. The top QBs chew those defenses up. The lousy ones hold onto the ball and bad things happen. Manuel in his second year should have improved in this area and he regressed instead. Good post. One which did live up to your screen name which btw I always thought was funny. Not as great as "PillsnBills," but easily top 20.
fansince88 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I voted "yes." But really, I believe he has the potential to be, we don't know yet. . Man in Black: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead. Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You've made your decision then? Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. Vizzini: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I? Man in Black: Australia. Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You're just stalling now. Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work. Vizzini: IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS! Man in Black: Then make your choice. Vizzini: I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be? Man in Black: [Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. Roberts looks. Vizzini swaps the goblets] Man in Black: What? Where? I don't see anything. Vizzini: Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter. First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours. Man in Black, Vizzini: [Vizzini and the Man in Black drink] Man in Black: You guessed wrong. Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
RealityCheck Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Good post. One which did live up to your screen name which btw I always thought was funny. Not as great as "PillsnBills," but easily top 20. Thanks dude. People need a little irony in their diet.
1billsfan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 No. I don't think that EJ Manuel is a franchise qb. Unrealized potential is a problem for everyone. "Obviously", everybody can be better at what they do. Perfection is a road after all, not a destination. He does however, have Trent Edwards' disease. When teams rush 3 and drop 8, he hesitates and the play ends up busted or is a check down. Edwards was actually quite good against blitzes and man coverage. The soft zone stuff was his kryptonite. The top QBs chew those defenses up. The lousy ones hold onto the ball and bad things happen. Manuel in his second year should have improved in this area and he regressed instead. Pretty easy solution. Tell him to run when they drop eight.
billsfan1959 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 If Tannehill is the standard for a franchise QB, then Manuel isn't too far behind Manuel Tannehill G 15 48 GS 14 48 QBrec 6-8-0 23-25-0 Cmp% 58.6 61.9 TD 16 63 TD% 3.7 3.8 Int 12 42 Int% 2.7 2.5 Y/A 6.4 6.8 AY/A 5.9 6.4 Y/C 11 10.9 NY/A 5.54 5.71 ANY/A 5.07 5.36 Fumbles 6 28 Sk 34 139 Sk% 7.2 7.7 GWD 3 5 QB Rating 78.5 84
Chandler#81 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 No. Not even in a back yard, pick up league.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I think this poll is exposing some people for not wanting to commit one way or another. It takes guts to put your name on one side or the other. Guts, Seriously? I have no problem putting my name one way or the other, but it didn't seem to especially call for guts. It's an opinion. On a message board. A snapshot of what folks believe at one moment in time. Millions of dollars, people's health, justice and freedom, things that take guts to stand up for, do not rely on my vote in this instance. It seems to me people are mostly having trouble because the wording of the poll bins together people who think EJ irrevokably sucks and will never be an NFL QB, with people who think EJ hasn't yet proven he can become a good NFL QB but he's still in the "grey zone" of development where many a QB who became good or great looked squiffy. And the latter don't want to be lumped in with the former. It's like the Hatfields and the McCoys. Toss in some confusion about "franchise QB" which to some people means "HOF-bound like Elway, P. Manning, Brady, Montana" to others means "those, yes, plus really good QB who can carry a team at times like Brees, Rodgers, Rivers" to others mean "year after year consistent guys who help their team win given the right pieces and system - long time starters like Flacco, E. Manning, Matt Ryan" and as we've seen, to still others means ">Tannehill". So anyway, I think it's the way the poll is framed rather than guts or the lack thereof. But that's just my opinion. . Man in Black: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead. Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You've made your decision then? Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. Vizzini: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I? Man in Black: Australia. Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You're just stalling now. Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work. Vizzini: IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS! Man in Black: Then make your choice. Vizzini: I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be? Man in Black: [Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. Roberts looks. Vizzini swaps the goblets] Man in Black: What? Where? I don't see anything. Vizzini: Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter. First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours. Man in Black, Vizzini: [Vizzini and the Man in Black drink] Man in Black: You guessed wrong. Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha... I gotta love a guy who quotes Princess Bride. Maybe Manuel's problem is he's not really left handed.
Big Gun Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) They can't come up with a QB option that's better than Manuel so tearing him down with comments like that is the only thing left to do. They're frustrated because Manuel didn't magically turn into Andrew Luck. They were told he was going to take some time and he performed exactly as advertised. These fans just don't have the patience for it. It's a shame that they feel they have to go overboard when they know that Manuel has shown some real flashes for clutch play which is THE main trait for becoming a franchise QB. 1 fourth quarter comeback, 3 game winning drives and that Falcon game in Toronto sans fumbled clutch passes were not imaginary. ...it's more than just stats, is that EJ was so bad that anybody would be a better option. Go ask his WR who they would like throwing them the ball. Bet you it's not EJ Manuel. Edited February 28, 2015 by Just Jack edited post
Matt in KC Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 As said by someone earlier: I voted "yes." But really, I believe he has the potential to be, we don't know yet. I voted Yes because you were trying to force me into a stupid choice. I'm closer to yes, let's let give him a try than no, let's cut him and give up a valuable chance he can help the team. If we never try a QB that isn't already a "franchise QB" we will likely wait a long time to get one and/or give up a lot (or "suck for Luck").
RealityCheck Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Pretty easy solution. Tell him to run when they drop eight. Your solution is simple, but not easy. When LBrs simply drop back into passing lanes after crowding the line, you usually don't see QB get far without getting an elbow to the head when they try and slide after a short run. You are also assuming that guys don't find the soft spots in these 8 man zones and that there are plays to be made that are missed. Your solution is for EJ to play college level football. He'll never be a great QB if he can't carve up those soft zones.
FireChan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Pretty easy solution. Tell him to run when they drop eight. Also tell Jeff Tuel to start warming up on the sidelines.
fansince88 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Also tell Jeff Tuel to start warming up on the sidelines. This I like!!!
Bangarang Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I've asked this before and I think this is a decent way of looking at this situation: If EJ was on any other team in the league and we watched the same performances and watched him get benched, would any Bills fan see him as a franchise QB still? Edited February 28, 2015 by Bangarang
1B4IDie Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 He is not a franchise QB today. I don't believe EJ will ever be a "franchise" QB. I define franchise QB as a QB that allows the team to win more games than the team would have won if the QB were replaced by an average QB. These people think he will be a franchise QB one day, and/or think "he has the potential to be." The Real Buffalo Joe, KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall, Hopeful, BillsFan-4-Ever, K-9,fridge, YoloinOhio, ALF, MarkAF43, chris heff, johnwalter, The Wiz, Uffalo Ills,C.Biscuit97, 1billsfan, SpunkysSD, bananathumb, Maddog69, Mike in Horseheads, the skycap, buffaloboyinATL, KOKBILLS, What a Tuel, RichVP, sir andrew, kota, ScottiePippin, Show Me The Baby, BillsFanM.D., Andy1, Mij yllek,RipfromPA, DCBongo, die hard bills fan, 1billsnut, nrod424, 8and8Forever,d_wag, KRT88, BuffaloFan68, The Poojer, dickleyjones, RI Bills Fan, Matt in KC,Cugalabanza
FireChan Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I've asked this before and I think this is a decent way of looking at this situation: If EJ was on any other team in the league and we watched the same performances and watched him get benched, would any Bills fan see him as a franchise QB still? No.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I've asked this before and I think this is a decent way of looking at this situation: If EJ was on any other team in the league and we watched the same performances and watched him get benched, would any Bills fan see him as a franchise QB still? So simplistic. If Russell Wilson was on the Jags, he might not be a franchise qb. This board has thought at times guys like Jihnny Hobbit, Bortles, Carr, Cousins, Orton, Hoyer, Moore, Glennon, etc. can be franchise Qbs. If they can, EJ most certainly can. 98% of Qbs wont ever be franchise Qbs. Do I think EJ had a terrible coaching staff, shouldn't have gotten bench for a scrub like Orton, & deserves another shot? Yes, I do. But to act like any of us know for sure is silly.
Bangarang Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 So simplistic. If Russell Wilson was on the Jags, he might not be a franchise qb. This board has thought at times guys like Jihnny Hobbit, Bortles, Carr, Cousins, Orton, Hoyer, Moore, Glennon, etc. can be franchise Qbs. If they can, EJ most certainly can. 98% of Qbs wont ever be franchise Qbs. Do I think EJ had a terrible coaching staff, shouldn't have gotten bench for a scrub like Orton, & deserves another shot? Yes, I do. But to act like any of us know for sure is silly. Obviously nobody can tell the future and knows for certain what will happen with this kid. However, there's 2 years worth of watching this kid play in training camp, in the pre-season and during the regular season that tells me he's a long shot from even being an average QB ranked in the middle of the league. For the last 2 years he's been a bottom tier QB who has looked no better in year 2 than he did as a rookie. If people want to cling onto hope that the light will magically turn on and he'll be the guy we all hoped then that's fine. I'll stick with the information we have available that points to this kid never being any good.
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