JoeF Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) It seems like many folks on the board express definitive opinions all day long...why is this different? I admit after 2 seasons, 3 injuries, 14 starts its not a great body of work to judge from....but the poll asks you to judge. Some have said this isn't realistic--but neither is the NFL. The most important factor I considered in this poll is the new regime. If Terry/Kim, Ryan, Roman and Whaley are convinced EJ is their future franchise guy...they decide to keep him and their new regime is branded by EJ. If they decide he is not...they really can't keep him on the roster because their tenure becomes branded on them making a bet on EJ Manuel by keeping him on the roster. This is the labeling world of the NFL and all of us contribute to it..if they keep him on the roster and he sits and/or delivers an expected middling performance when called upon -- he is now their guy. If they look at film and have a better than average feeling that he will never be the franchise leader -- they let him go. They never trash him publicly or his skill set -- they just say he is not a system fit and move on...The NFL is funky world -- an owner/head coach/GM is branded by who they hire as staff and who they draft and who they keep as players. A fresh start warrants that decisions like this be made quickly particularly at the most important position on the team. I am pretty confident their answer will be that EJ is not their guy and they will move on -- no matter what they believe they can acquire. They will not want to be branded with EJ Manuel. I know its a different situation but noone had a reaction like this that I can recall when Marrone cut Fitzpatrick....Marrone/Hackett didn't see Fitz taking us anywhere even with a $7 million cap hit....new regimes move on from being branded with the previous regimes players about whom the new regime is unsure...Welcome to the NFL and its warped ways. Edited February 27, 2015 by Formerly Joe F
Solomon Grundy Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 It seems like many folks on the board express definitive opinions all day long...why is this different? I admit after 2 seasons, 3 injuries, 14 starts its not a great body of work to judge from....but the poll asks you to judge. Some have said this isn't realistic--but neither is the NFL. The most important factor I considered in this poll is the new regime. If Terry/Kim, Ryan, Roman and Whaley are convinced EJ is their future franchise guy...they decide to keep him and their new regime is branded by EJ. If they decide he is not...they really can't keep him on the roster because their tenure becomes branded on them making a bet on EJ Manuel by keeping him on the roster. This is the labeling world of the NFL and all of us contribute to it..if they keep him on the roster and he sits and/or delivers an expected middling performance when called upon -- he is now their guy. If they look at film and have a better than average feeling that he will never be the franchise leader -- they let him go. They never trash him publicly or his skill set -- they just say he is not a system fit and move on...The NFL is funky world -- an owner/head coach/GM is branded by who they hire as staff and who they draft and who they keep as players. A fresh start warrants that decisions like this be made quickly particularly at the most important position on the team. I am pretty confident their answer will be that EJ is not their guy and they will move on -- no matter what they believe they can acquire. They will not want to be branded with EJ Manuel. I know its a different situation but noone had a reaction like this that I can recall when Marrone cut Fitzpatrick....Marrone/Hackett didn't see Fitz taking us anywhere even with a $7 million cap hit....new regimes move on from being branded with the previous regimes players about whom the new regime is unsure... http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/27/bills-qb-ej-manuel-i-love-rex-ryan-hes-my-man/
JoeF Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/27/bills-qb-ej-manuel-i-love-rex-ryan-hes-my-man/ Unfortunately the feeling my not be mutual.....he hasn't even seen the truck yet... a very bad sign. No Bills gear...another bad sign....he knows already... Edited February 27, 2015 by Formerly Joe F
CodeMonkey Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I am pretty confident their answer will be that EJ is not their guy and they will move on -- no matter what they believe they can acquire. They will not want to be branded with EJ Manuel. Manuel is Whaleys boy.
JoeF Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Manuel is Whaleys boy. And he is now given a free pass to opt out of him because there is a new coach...what a great opportunity....who do you think gets branded with this publicly high profile Rex Ryan or quiet unassuming Doug Whaley? Keeping EJ is like putting his face on the new truck for Rex.. Edited February 27, 2015 by Formerly Joe F
billstein22 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I voted no, but I'm biased as I've watched footage of him playing football.
JoeF Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I voted no, but I'm biased as I've watched footage of him playing football.
Jobu Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 This poll stemmed from a conversation elsewhere. There are no "it depends" options. Do you believe that he will be a franchise QB? I would have loved to have seen everyone's responses after Steve Young's first season in Tampa, or Brett Favre's first Season in Atlanta. No one on this board would know a franchise quarterback, even if it came up and bit you in the butt. Including me.
Solomon Grundy Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I would have loved to have seen everyone's responses after Steve Young's first season in Tampa, or Brett Favre's first Season in Atlanta. No one on this board would know a franchise quarterback, even if it came up and bit you in the butt. Including me. Here come the buts....
FireChan Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I would have loved to have seen everyone's responses after Steve Young's first season in Tampa, or Brett Favre's first Season in Atlanta. No one on this board would know a franchise quarterback, even if it came up and bit you in the butt. Including me. I would have loved to see everyone's responses after Gabbert's, Locker's, RG3's, Leinhart's, Russel's, Leaf's, JP's, Trent's, Brian Brohm's, Couch's. Colt McCoy's, Geno Smith's, Mark Sanchez's, Matt McGloin's, Ponder's, Weeden's, etc etc to infinity second seasons. Those guys were all franchise material.
Solomon Grundy Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I would have loved to see everyone's responses after Gabbert's, Locker's, RG3's, Leinhart's, Russel's, Leaf's, JP's, Trent's, Brian Brohm's, Couch's. Colt McCoy's, Geno Smith's, Mark Sanchez's, Matt McGloin's, Ponder's, Weeden's, etc etc to infinity second seasons. Those guys were all franchise material. Who besides Donahoe thought JP Losman was gonna be a franchise QB? Matt McGloin? Really? And the verdict is still out on RG3. Chan can u really say you knew RG3 wasn't gonna be any good before the injury?
FireChan Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Who besides Donahoe thought JP Losman was gonna be a franchise QB? Matt McGloin? Really? And the verdict is still out on RG3. Chan can u really say you knew RG3 wasn't gonna be any good before the injury? Seeing as I said "second season," that question is invalid. After RG3's second year, I was quite confident in saying he was done. The point was Steve Young and Favre turned it around. And 50 others (at least) didn't. If my record was 48-2, I'd say I know what a franchise QB looks like.
billsfan_34 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 When you draft a QB that high the hope is he becomes a franchise QB. Im , maybe to a fault, holding out hope that he pulls it together. The kid has alot of talent and a good head on his shoulders. Lets hope this new staff rights him and the game begins to slow down some for the young lad.
GunnerBill Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Ok so I voted "no". I felt and still feel that if picking a Quarterback in the first round in 2013 with a gun to my head I would have picked EJ Manuel. I know some on here love Glennon because he chucks it uo a lot but I feel EJ was and is the best option in that class. This time last season I might have been a yes but I just did not seen enough in year 2 and whilst I don't totally dismiss the possibility that he is I think the odds are now against EJ. However, if McCown is the best option available as an alternative then EJ might win this job and give himself 1 more big chance. Nobody has rooted for the kid more than me. He is a talented guy and a hard worker. I hate the premise that all QBs have to be idiots to succeed ane I reject it. Some nice guys win. I really hope EJ is one of them.
Rocky Landing Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 It depends on the franchise. He could open up a Cinnabon, or something.
BillsFanM.D. Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I'm gonna say yes. I concur this is flawed for many of the reasons above. The FO doesn't have to decide today on EJ. We shouldn't either. If we're talking about cutting him today or not....that's easy and logical. Heck no! Kirby's a great poster and I get what he's trying to do here...and he's made comments to explain that. I like to gamble and it's easy to root for EJ...so I'm all in under this premise. I felt I saw a lot to root for in his rookie season. In particular, I was at the Jets game. There were other very good moments as well to go with the expected errors. As for him 'regressing'.....there's always the eyeball test (I get it) but he had a higher QB rating in his abbreviated second year than in his first year....it is what 'it' is. I also think that if people were told before his first start that he'd have rating of 78; pass for 2800 yds and have 16 td's and 12 picks after 14 starts.....this would have been viewed as a good start and there would have been, at the very least, optimism. We could talk coaching etc and other 'excuses' but I'm not going there. I think he's shown enough, as a young QB, to warrant a further look. I"m not an EJ dreamer. I'm just not ready to make a declarative statement when I believe there is still potential. I simply want him to compete and win. I don't think it's been proven he can't. The poll requires a yes or no. I hope I'm holding aces in the end.
PlayoffsPlease Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 The "no one knows, you need another year" crowd is simply wishy washy. You can never be wrong with the "no one knows" position.
YoloinOhio Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 The "no one knows, you need another year" crowd is simply wishy washy. You can never be wrong with the "no one knows" position. IMO as an NFL QB you are what you are by year 3. I don't need to be right or care if I'm wrong. I can say I don't know yet. I did vote yes here, based on what I know at this time, as I still think there is a chance and haven't concluded that there isn't.
Augie Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I voted no because he's still doing some of the things that made me crazy when he was at FSU. I'm hoping with time and the proper coaching he can change and prove me wrong. It won't be the first time! Let's face it, most guys are NOT franchise QB's. Teams draft for them every year, and still there are only a dozen or so on the planet. Edited February 28, 2015 by Augie
BackInDaDay Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) i'm hoping Roman can build a system EJ can be successful in. his lack of accuracy will haunt him throughout his career, because a QB must make plays when the plays are there to be made. this flaw in his game will always be a 'work-around' for his OC. the last staff tried their best to tie his footwork to his delivery in order to get him to pull the trigger. but Hackett's poorly executed schematics undermined the 'timed' passing game they thought EJ could succeed in. i have no idea what Roman wants to try.. but he has to get EJ to know where his 2nd option is on every pass play - pre-snap.. he can't watch plays develop and try to hit a window.. he'll never have that gift. he has to know where to go with the ball as he's setting up.. that's not an easy task for an OC.. but if Roman can get the matchups he wants by formation, motion, and play action - he just needs to prepare EJ to recognize if the D counters as expected. hopefully the primary or secondary receivers will be open where Roman expects them to be open. EJ should be given a 1st option - 2nd option - then either extend the pass play or tuck and run. he makes plays when he breaks the pocket, so this should be incorporated as a strategy. now this is just a fan talking, so if i understand the challenge Roman has in building an O around EJ, then it's just the tip of the iceberg.. the thing is - the kid has skills, and can make plays - just not all the plays. maybe you guessed i voted 'no' in the poll.. to me, a very good QB is a player who can succeed in any system because he's got a feel for where his open man will be, and the strength and accuracy to get it there consistently. those guys make it look easy. and since a running game is a QB's best friend, i have to think that Brady, Rogers, Manning, Rivers, Brees, Ryan, Luck and Stafford are the best in the league right now, because regardless of how well their O is running the ball, they've all shown they can put up points. they complete passes when the D is looking pass, and when your QB can win games doing that - you got a franchise QB. Edited February 28, 2015 by BackInDaDay
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