BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 yeah but a subway doesn't help Canadians, or Greater Rochesterians get there and park Bah, lets just expand the Buffalo and Toronto systems until they are interconnected. It wouldn't be that expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Yeah, they will be fine. One of the challenges that the face with the club seats now is that they are about 3 times as much as seats at the 50 20 rows up. The benefits of the club seats are nice but are they 3 x better than the location? They need to marry the amenities and location. Those are the 2 driving factors for people when it comes to ST. That is exactly why the Ralph won't work. People that have sat in those seats for 30-40 years will feel like they took "their" seat away. In a new stadium that sense of ownership does not exist. You are not being moved from the people that you have sat next to for 20 years, etc... Your gameday ritual isn't being taken away. It is a completely new experience. The new stadium though is even more about the sellable sponsorship inventory as it is ticket sales. It is all of that ancillary revenue that can be created from developing sellable assets from a marketing standpoint. Kirby I admire your persistence in trying to educate folks on how this all works. You'll have some success with many, but others will never get it. You are 100% correct, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) > it needs to be downtown where it will help generate business growth. where has this concept been proven with football stadiums? here in Denver the stadium is downtown, but the area around it is not full of businesses thriving off of it. No special shops or restaurants; Federal ave is the same as any other commercial road. Baseball stadiums I can see.. Coors Field completely revitalized Lower Downtown. But football stadiums sit idle for too many days of the year. Just take a look at the harbor center and that part of Buffalo Common sense clearly shows this will become a great entertainment district. You already have Hockey and Baseball, a retractable roof would offer big time events on top of football all right there. I hope Buffalo does not short arm this opportunity I am not for a second stating renovating the Ralph is the best option, rather if it is the more likely scenario. Totally concur that a new stadium in that location is a golden opportunity. right on man... I'm glad you agree, Buffalo can not afford to muck this one up Edited February 24, 2015 by ddaryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Look at everything the Pegulas are doing in downtown Buffalo right now. Anybody who thinks that a new stadium in downtown Buffalo is not going to happen is fooling themselves. I hope the stadium they build is slightly bigger than the font size you are using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Bah, lets just expand the Buffalo and Toronto systems until they are interconnected. It wouldn't be that expensive change the Fast Ferry into the Fast Hydroplane (what do you call those that ride on the air cushion)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Kirby I admire your persistence in trying to educate folks on how this all works. You'll have some success with many, but others will never get it. You are 100% correct, BTW. Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. It is pretty much exactly what I used to do so I know a good deal about it (at least I like to think I do). We went through $135M renovation to the arena that was done in 3 phases. The conversations that were had internally all centered around revenue maximization. Every single update that it included was designed on generating revenue 1st and foremost. It is nice to be able to hide behind, "we are building this party perch so that fans will have a great place to grab a drink while overlooking the game." The reality is we built it so that we could call it the "Bud Light Party Perch" or whatever. The revenue that they paid for that name dwarfed the potential revenue of the 500 seats that we removed or whatever it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 News from a few months back but I was re-reading these threads: #1, #2 regarding a new stadium and saw NFL.com highlighted Miami has plans in the works of a complete upgrade of their stadium, $400m over two years to be exact. Given that Terry has the money and resources to fund such a project, do you think it's possible the Ralph sees the same kind of overhaul instead of a complete relocation? EDIT Video of suggested renovations: [media=250x350] [/media] Renovate the Ralph? Not a prayer. The whole idea of building a new stadium is to fuel the further development of downtown. In 40+ years in OP RWS has attracted a 7-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 > it needs to be downtown where it will help generate business growth. where has this concept been proven with football stadiums? here in Denver the stadium is downtown, but the area around it is not full of businesses thriving off of it. No special shops or restaurants; Federal ave is the same as any other commercial road. Baseball stadiums I can see.. Coors Field completely revitalized Lower Downtown. But football stadiums sit idle for too many days of the year. what type of "business growth"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 what type of "business growth"? Bars and strip clubs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Do not fear. Pegula will bring the stadium downtown, to the same area that his other teams and businesses already control, and make it into one large complex for Hockey, Football, shopping, etc. He may even knock down and rebuild the FNC just to be able to tie everything together neatly. I can say with 100% confidence he has already looked into his options for doing so. There will be no more issues with traffic and parking than there already is at the Ralph, which is serviced by basically 2 roads (Southwestern or Abbott). If you want to see a great example of the expanded business a stadium can bring, look at what they are doing in Foxboro around Gillette stadium. And that isnt even a multi-use building! Foxboro: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Bars and strip clubs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The Ralph doesn't have the infrastructure for a major renovation. Would cost nearly as much as an open air downtown stadium. There is no point to it. There are 2 questions other than who pays how much, they are where downtown and open or closed. Edited February 24, 2015 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. It is pretty much exactly what I used to do so I know a good deal about it (at least I like to think I do). We went through $135M renovation to the arena that was done in 3 phases. The conversations that were had internally all centered around revenue maximization. Every single update that it included was designed on generating revenue 1st and foremost. It is nice to be able to hide behind, "we are building this party perch so that fans will have a great place to grab a drink while overlooking the game." The reality is we built it so that we could call it the "Bud Light Party Perch" or whatever. The revenue that they paid for that name dwarfed the potential revenue of the 500 seats that we removed or whatever it was. The whole proposal is not exactly what they will put in but more so improvements that can be made to the current stadium if that is indeed the avenue they decide to go down. Regarding your first post which is littered with a logical outlook, why isn't it possible to upgrade the seating and adding even more amenities or even structural additions - such as a retractable roof? A new stadium would be excellent but will it happen any time soon? Renovate the Ralph? Not a prayer. The whole idea of building a new stadium is to fuel the further development of downtown. In 40+ years in OP RWS has attracted a 7-11. Did you think Wilson went out of his way to drive commercial business to the surrounding areas? Unlikely. I know Ralph loved Buffalo but I get more of a sense from the Pegulas that they are trying to unite the community and industry of Buffalo as one and for it to be a booming city once again - if not, at least try whilst they are in a position to do so. The whole point I am essentially eluding to is that I, personally, don't see a new stadium happening in the next 5-7 years. What harm would some upgrades do in the meantime 'til everything is tied up and put in motion? Edited February 24, 2015 by Smooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The whole proposal is not exactly what they will put in but more so improvements that can be made to the current stadium if that is indeed the avenue they decide to go down. Regarding your first post which is littered with a logical outlook, why isn't it possible to upgrade the seating and adding even more amenities or even structural additions - such as a retractable roof? A new stadium would be excellent but will it happen any time soon? A retrofit is certainly doable from a logistics standpoint. It is pretty much impossible though to have the best locations with the best amenities with out totally angering the people that currently sit there. There is a sense of ownership over a particular set of seats that your family has owned for 20+ years. They would have the opportunity to maintain them but what will happen is, "the cost of my seat that I have had for 25 years was $760 and now it is $2800 for the season?!?" You will get a lot more people that tell you to "f@#$ off" than you will people that will relocate into a less expensive area. You really need the clean slate to not push away that very valuable, loyal segment of the fan base. They would still have 1st crack based on tenure but will not have the same sense of entitlement. I think that the new stadium will be in place at the end of this 7 year term or whatever it is. The plans I am sure are much further along than we know at this point. Edited February 24, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 A retrofit is certainly doable from a logistics standpoint. It is pretty much impossible though to have the best locations with the best amenities with out totally angering the people that currently sit there. There is a sense of ownership over a particular set of seats that your family has owned for 20+ years. They would have the opportunity to maintain them but what will happen is, "the cost of my seat that I have had for 25 years was $760 and now it is $2800 for the season?!?" You will get a lot more people that tell you to "f@#$ off" than you will people that will relocate into a less expensive area. You really need the guise of a clean slate to no push away that very valuable, loyal segment of the fan base. They would still have 1st crack based on tenure but will not have the same sense of entitlement. I think that the new stadium will be in place at the end of this 7 year term or whatever it is. The plans I am sure are much further along than we know at this point. I am, unfortunately, not a ST holder but I totally understand and agree with the sense of ownership and attachment holders have to a seat/s that have been held on to for several years. I proposed such a thought due to for the fact a stadium is a few years off yet but hopefully you are indeed right - maybe they are further along than anyone around that networking circle is willing to let on. BTW: thanks for the clarity on your first post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The whole proposal is not exactly what they will put in but more so improvements that can be made to the current stadium if that is indeed the avenue they decide to go down. Regarding your first post which is littered with a logical outlook, why isn't it possible to upgrade the seating and adding even more amenities or even structural additions - such as a retractable roof? A new stadium would be excellent but will it happen any time soon? Did you think Wilson went out of his way to drive commercial business to the surrounding areas? Unlikely. I know Ralph loved Buffalo but I get more of a sense from the Pegulas that they are trying to unite the community and industry of Buffalo as one and for it to be a booming city once again - if not, at least try whilst they are in a position to do so. The whole point I am essentially eluding to is that I, personally, don't see a new stadium happening in the next 5-7 years. What harm would some upgrades do in the meantime 'til everything is tied up and put in motion? Did we not just spend $130MM on upgrades?? Would you really spend hundreds of millions on more renovations on RWS when you are building a new stadium in 5 years? Edited February 24, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Just take a look at the harbor center and that part of Buffalo Common sense clearly shows this will become a great entertainment district. You already have Hockey and Baseball, a retractable roof would offer big time events on top of football all right there. I hope Buffalo does not short arm this opportunity right on man... I'm glad you agree, Buffalo can not afford to muck this one up Football stadiums do not spur growth, they can actually hinder it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Football stadiums do not spur growth, they can actually hinder it. So can malls, buildings, pretty much anything that isn't thought out fully. That's more the point than saying stadiums hinder growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Football stadiums do not spur growth, they can actually hinder it. I think Buffalo would be a unique situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 That's more the point than saying stadiums hinder growth. It really isn't. And I'm specifically talking about football stadiums, not baseball, hockey or basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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