Dorkington Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Except that if Manuel does not have a good season there will still be (people don't like the use of the word excuses here so) reasons for it such as his limited play in his first 2 seasons, the Marrone regime stunted his growth and so on. Not sure what the time limit for EJ Manuel is here, or even if there is one. Admitting a first round QB is a bust (and I'm not saying he is yet) is almost as hard for a fanbase as it is for the front office. Particularly when the player is as nice a guy as Manuel seems to be. It really depends on what's considered a good season. In year three, with limited playing time in his first two years, I'm still going to expect to see some inconsistency, but *trending* towards better play. If we're sitting around expecting a pro-bowl year, then there's gonna be a lot of disappointment.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Except that if Manuel does not have a good season there will still be (people don't like the use of the word excuses here so) reasons for it such as his limited play in his first 2 seasons, the Marrone regime stunted his growth and so on. Not sure what the time limit for EJ Manuel is here, or even if there is one. Admitting a first round QB is a bust (and I'm not saying he is yet) is almost as hard for a fanbase as it is for the front office. Particularly when the player is as nice a guy as Manuel seems to be. Agreed. No one including myself wants to see EJ fail. We have invested too much, and he is our best hope to win soon if he can step his game up. However, I have grown skeptical about giving young QBs a lot of patience. All the younger successful QBs today have shown at least flashes of brilliance within their first two years in the league. I was someone who adovocated for giving JP Losman and Trent Edwards time to prove they can play in the NFL. Now in hindsight I think giving them too much time set back the franchise when we could have been drafting QB's. I'd hate to see that happen again, just because we spent a first round pick on Manuel.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 It really depends on what's considered a good season. In year three, with limited playing time in his first two years, I'm still going to expect to see some inconsistency, but *trending* towards better play. If we're sitting around expecting a pro-bowl year, then there's gonna be a lot of disappointment. How bout a winning record as a starter?
billsfan1959 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Except that if Manuel does not have a good season there will still be (people don't like the use of the word excuses here so) reasons for it such as his limited play in his first 2 seasons, the Marrone regime stunted his growth and so on. Not sure what the time limit for EJ Manuel is here, or even if there is one. Admitting a first round QB is a bust (and I'm not saying he is yet) is almost as hard for a fanbase as it is for the front office. Particularly when the player is as nice a guy as Manuel seems to be. It should be more than 14 games... In 1984, Tampa Bay selected a QB in the 1st round of the supplemental draft. In his first two years, he started 19 games, completed 53% of his passes, had 11 TDs and 21 INTs - and then was traded to San Francisco where he had a Hall of Fame career. I am not saying E. J. Manuel will become another Steve Young. My point is that in some instances, it may take time, the right philosophy, and the right team. I honestly do not know, at this point, how much of EJ's struggles can be attributable to him, coaching, scheme, etc. I think what he does this year under a new regime will clarify that for me...
Dorkington Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 How bout a winning record as a starter? 2013 - 4-6 (4-5 if you take out the Cleveland game) 2014 - 2-2 I think its doable, and reasonable.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 2013 - 4-6 (4-5 if you take out the Cleveland game) 2014 - 2-2 I think its doable, and reasonable. And if it doesn't happen? Can we put him to rest? Or at least, as a Tuel type QB?
Dorkington Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) And if it doesn't happen? Can we put him to rest? Or at least, as a Tuel type QB? Maybe. If he has a breakout year and goes to the Pro Bowl, and we finish 7-9, because the defense sucks for some reason... what do you do? That's basically why I fall back on, if he shows improvement in his game, and is trending up, then we continue. If he's plateued, then you clearly move on. I'd love to see him get a full 16 game season with a decent offensive system. Edit: Sorry, keep adding comments Edited February 23, 2015 by Dorkington
yungmack Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Whether or not you like EJ's chances to become at least a dependable starter, here is the reality of the situation for the Bills: Every QB in this year's draft who is likely to be available to the Bills is, at the very best, about the same as EJ and likely not as good as him. So why would you draft one of these "projects" when you already have a project in EJ? If you think Hundley or Mannion or one of those other guys is going to be an instant improvement for the Bills in '15, I think you are delusional. They're projects, EJ is a project; how is that an improvement? That leaves the Bills in the market for an experienced NFL QB, which they can get in either of two ways, by a FA signing or a trade. Let's get rid of the last option right away because no team is going to trade an elite QB UNLESS there is some compelling reason to get rid of him. I mean, if Green Bay suddenly made Rodgers available, wouldn't red lights start flashing? So the ones who might be available would be the likes of Cutler or Bradford and, boy, I think they'd be dancing the De-troit Shing A Ling in both front offices if they could onload those two disappointments and their heavy contracts on some other suckers. And personally, I don't see how either one would be enough of an improvement over EJ to justify the cost of that trade. So that leaves One Bills Drive with but one option, signing a FA QB. And as far as I can see, none of the names being tossed around can in any way be seen as a big improvement over EJ. Matt Moore? Mark Sanchez? Sheesh, even freakin' Brady Quinn has been mentioned. The Bills will definitely sign one and might very well draft one as well because they are too light at the position. But to think that whoever is added to the roster is going to be a big upgrade over EJ and take the team to the promised land this season is pure folly. There just aren't any QBs out there who are in any way, shape or form enough of an improvement to come to that conclusion. And that's the paradox the Bills are facing.
FireChan Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Maybe. If he has a breakout year and goes to the Pro Bowl, and we finish 7-9, because the defense sucks for some reason... what do you do? That's basically why I fall back on, if he shows improvement in his game, and is trending up, then we continue. If he's plateued, then you clearly move on. I'd love to see him get a full 16 game season with a decent offensive system. Edit: Sorry, keep adding comments That won't happen. It's a one in a million scenario. The defense will be top 10. The difference between a 7-9 season and a 10-6 season will be on the QB position. If that doesn't happen, I'm done with him.
Dorkington Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 That won't happen. It's a one in a million scenario. The defense will be top 10. The difference between a 7-9 season and a 10-6 season will be on the QB position. If that doesn't happen, I'm done with him. If the defense is an elite unit, and the offensive struggles then of course, move on. Absolutely agree.
billsfan1959 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 That won't happen. It's a one in a million scenario. The defense will be top 10. The difference between a 7-9 season and a 10-6 season will be on the QB position. If that doesn't happen, I'm done with him. It will be on the O-line and QB position...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Except that if Manuel does not have a good season there will still be (people don't like the use of the word excuses here so) reasons for it such as his limited play in his first 2 seasons, the Marrone regime stunted his growth and so on. Not sure what the time limit for EJ Manuel is here, or even if there is one. Admitting a first round QB is a bust (and I'm not saying he is yet) is almost as hard for a fanbase as it is for the front office. Particularly when the player is as nice a guy as Manuel seems to be. I agree with you. But ..... even with his sitting this past season, he's still got 2 years under his belt. I'd love to see him progress. I don't expect to see 4 or 5 game win streaks (though that would be great) nor would I expect to see a 4 or 5 game losing streak If he can't lead the team to 9 or more wins then I am guessing they move on to the next QB. At a minimum I expect 3 from the AFCE, 2 or more from the NFC, and 3 or more from the AFC opponents. Edited February 23, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
FireChan Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 It will be on the O-line and QB position... Disagree.
Solomon Grundy Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 That won't happen. It's a one in a million scenario. The defense will be top 10. The difference between a 7-9 season and a 10-6 season will be on the QB position. If that doesn't happen, I'm done with him. Not necessarily Chan! A HC can lose you a game or two, just ask Seattle.
Nanker Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Dear God, can the season begin soon? Please!
FireChan Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Not necessarily Chan! A HC can lose you a game or two, just ask Seattle. Yes necessarily.
Solomon Grundy Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I agree with you. But ..... even with his sitting this past season, he's still got 2 years under his belt. I'd love to see him progress. I don't expect to see 4 or 5 game win streaks (though that would be great) nor would I expect to see a 4 or 5 game losing streak If he can't lead the team to 9 or more wins then I am guessing they move on to the next QB. At a minimum I expect 3 from the AFCE, 2 or more from the NFC, and 3 or more from the AFC opponents. He could've possibly did just that this season had he not been pulled by his HC. We will never know. I just don't want to see the Bills give up so quickly on a promising talent the way the Falcons(Favre) and Chargers(Brees) did.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 That won't happen. It's a one in a million scenario. The defense will be top 10. The difference between a 7-9 season and a 10-6 season will be on the QB position. If that doesn't happen, I'm done with him. BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaa you made a funny, You've been "done" with EJ for the last year or more. please don't pretend otherwise. or did I read that wrong and you were talking about Kyle Orton?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Every. Single. One. even kyle Orton trended from better to worse over his on season. Robert woods, Chris Hogan, Dixson... The only guys I can see as doing better.
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