Russell Wilson and the Seahawks negotiations (update:signed)

[#34fan]

Florio has just tweeted that it's a 4 year extension:

 

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk

Per source, Russell Wilson deal is indeed a four-year extension; he's under contract for five years, at $89.1 million.

 

So, the Seahawks made out big. He's not even close to Rogers in terms of $$/year.

 

So basically Russell Wilson's deal is:

 

5 years, $89.1m at $17.8m per year.

 

That puts him 11th, just ahead of Matthew Stafford.

 

You may have amended this, but these were the latest figures I saw:

$31 million to sign, a reduction in base salary in 2015 from $1.54 million to $700,000, $12.342 million in 2016 (includes $840K from his '15 base), $12.6 million in 2017, $15.5 million in 2018 and $17 million in 2019. -Tack on the roughly 6.2 mil in signing bonus for every year on the contract, and he's top 3... (some sites have him higher than big Ben) -Which him and his agent are obviously happy with.... I think it's a significant blow against the "he's not elite" argument... A big passing season would probably put an end to the talk once and for all...

 

Seattle, at least, feels he's right up there with the best QB's in the league, which was all some of us were trying to say... If there was truly no argument for him being worth the richest contract, I don't think he makes out as good as he did... Good for him.

 

 

As expected and I predicted, the numbers would come out and both sides would argue which was most depending on their slant.

 

He gets 21.9 instead of 22, which is the most. And way more guaranteed. That's at the top of the league. If he played out this season and signed the same contract would you say it wasn't at the top? Both sides are cherry picking the best results as expected. You're saying it's 17m or so, which it's not. It's 21.9. At the top of the league.

 

As others are saying, it's a great, great deal for both sides, and they get what they want. Wilson is going to make an absolute killing in 5 years when he is 30, and starts out at 21.9 a year after his rookie deal. Not bad.

 

 

The four-year thing was a big stipulation for Wilson's camp http://sports.yahoo.com/news/wilson-seahawks-agree-terms-contract-extension-144717981--nfl.html;_ylt=AwrXnCE1MrxVzDYAFglNbK5_;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDNzZTI1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw-- ... Leads me to believe there was even more money on the table if Wilson wanted to stay longer, which he didn't....

 

Forgoing what could have been a staggering payday for even an even bigger one down the line... Pretty smart.

Edited August 1, 2015 by #34fan

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

my comments are only in response to those who think elite QB's need to be prolific passers.

Wilson's 16th place ranking argues that stat.

BEAST MODE pre Wilson: 3.99 YPC career average, 3.95 YPC in 2 years in Seattle.

BEAST MODE with Wilson 3 years: 4.65 YPC

Looks more like Wilson helped Beast Mode...yet people keep saying this myth of Lynch making Wilson.

Funny, Lynch was never considered Elite until Wilson came around. His future and role has been in doubt most years of his career until Wilson came and changed that offense.

oh yes, the guy who passes an average 207 YPG and 7.95 YPP over his career ALSO opens running lanes for Beast Mode.

 

Now who is it that catches hell in Buffalo for passing only 197.2 YPG in 2013??? oops sorry I digress

 

BEAST MODE pre Wilson: 2011 4.2 YPC, in 2010 he had 3.5 YPC in SEA and 4.4 YPC with da Bills prior to the trade.

 

please explain BM's 4.2 YPC prior to RW

Funny, Lynch was always getting into some sort of trouble when with the Bills - go figure

 

Buffalo Bills RB Marshawn Lynch arrested on felony...
Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch is in trouble with the law again. Lynch, who played in the Pro Bowl one week ago, was arrested Wednesday in Culver City

Edited August 1, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[PlayoffsPlease]

my comments are only in response to those who think elite QB's need to be prolific passers.

Wilson's 16th place ranking argues that stat.

oh yes, the guy who passes an average 207 YPG and 7.95 YPP over his career ALSO opens running lanes for Beast Mode.

 

Now who is it that catches hell in Buffalo for passing only 197.2 YPG in 2013??? oops sorry I digress

 

BEAST MODE pre Wilson: 2011 4.2 YPC, in 2010 he had 3.5 YPC in SEA and 4.4 YPC with da Bills prior to the trade.

 

please explain BM's 4.2 YPC prior to RW

Funny, Lynch was always getting into some sort of trouble when with the Bills - go figure

 

Buffalo Bills RB Marshawn Lynch arrested on felony...

Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch is in trouble with the law again. Lynch, who played in the Pro Bowl one week ago, was arrested Wednesday in Culver City

Any chance that Wilson being the NFL's 16th leading rusher last year with a 7 yard per carry total of 849 yards, possibly opens up space for Lynch. I am nearly certain that defenses do a lot more to game plan for Wilson than they do for Lynch.

[Alphadawg7]

my comments are only in response to those who think elite QB's need to be prolific passers.

Wilson's 16th place ranking argues that stat.

oh yes, the guy who passes an average 207 YPG and 7.95 YPP over his career ALSO opens running lanes for Beast Mode.

 

Now who is it that catches hell in Buffalo for passing only 197.2 YPG in 2013??? oops sorry I digress

 

BEAST MODE pre Wilson: 2011 4.2 YPC, in 2010 he had 3.5 YPC in SEA and 4.4 YPC with da Bills prior to the trade.

 

please explain BM's 4.2 YPC prior to RW

Funny, Lynch was always getting into some sort of trouble when with the Bills - go figure

 

Buffalo Bills RB Marshawn Lynch arrested on felony...

Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch is in trouble with the law again. Lynch, who played in the Pro Bowl one week ago, was arrested Wednesday in Culver City

Come on, you've been pretty good poster with your responses, let's not go down the cherry picking stats lane. Beast mode CAREER average was 3.99 the year Wilson was drafted. His YPC over the 2 years in Seattle was 3.95.

 

Since adding Wilson, his YPC over 3 years is now 4.65 YPC, a dramatic increase.

 

And why do you guys only talk about half of a dual threats game? You focus on passing yards only and ignore his damaging rushing yards. Wilson rushed for almost 900 yards last year to go with his passing. So all this stuff about only his passing stats is a ridiculous way to evaluate Wilson while ignoring a huge part of his production and cherry picking to paint a lower picture of a dynamic dual threat.

 

And again, you are posting totals completely ignoring how effective and efficient he is while also leaving out his rushing totals.

 

And give me a break about the Orton comparison! Seriously? His sub 200 yards per game was also combined with no rushing, no scoring, lots of turnovers, and HORRIBLE efficiency on 3rd down, red zone, Etc. I mean you want to compare them because of only passing yard average? No disrespect, but that might be the worst comment I've seen in this thread so far.

Any chance that Wilson being the NFL's 16th leading rusher last year with a 7 yard per carry total of 849 yards, possibly opens up space for Lynch. I am nearly certain that defenses do a lot more to game plan for Wilson than they do for Lynch.

Thank you! Amazing how few people get this point right here

Edited August 1, 2015 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

Now it all shakes out as a very good deal for Seattle without giving Wilson the money that the "pay the man already" crowd wanted. Bravo all concerned.

[What a Tuel]

Come on, you've been pretty good poster with your responses, let's not go down the cherry picking stats lane. Beast mode CAREER average was 3.99 the year Wilson was drafted. His YPC over the 2 years in Seattle was 3.95.

 

Since adding Wilson, his YPC over 3 years is now 4.65 YPC, a dramatic increase.

 

And why do you guys only talk about half of a dual threats game? You focus on passing yards only and ignore his damaging rushing yards. Wilson rushed for almost 900 yards last year to go with his passing. So all this stuff about only his passing stats is a ridiculous way to evaluate Wilson while ignoring a huge part of his production and cherry picking to paint a lower picture of a dynamic dual threat.

 

And again, you are posting totals completely ignoring how effective and efficient he is while also leaving out his rushing totals.

 

And give me a break about the Orton comparison! Seriously? His sub 200 yards per game was also combined with no rushing, no scoring, lots of turnovers, and HORRIBLE efficiency on 3rd down, red zone, Etc. I mean you want to compare them because of only passing yard average? No disrespect, but that might be the worst comment I've seen in this thread so far.

 

Thank you! Amazing how few people get this point right here

 

Because if you combine his rushing yards/tds with his passing stats/tds he still doesn't crack the top 7 QB's statistically. Including his rushing stats also puts him on equal footing with other QB's in terms of attempts. So nearing an equal number of attempts he not only rushes/passes for less, but scores less tds than 7 other qbs.

[#34fan]

Now it all shakes out as a very good deal for Seattle without giving Wilson the money that the "pay the man already" crowd wanted. Bravo all concerned.

 

Except that this is EXACTLY the type of money he got... Top 3.... Silencing the 'He should'nt be making anywhere near Rodgers or Rivers' nonsense... Happy for the guy.... Now onto Bills stuff.

Edited August 2, 2015 by #34fan

[GunnerBill]

No... there were people on here saying if it takes $25million a year give it to him. I thought $21million was much more reasonable and I certainly never said he shouldn't be paid more than Rivers. You are very good at arguing against things people have never said. A bit more time take to understand nuanced arguments would really assist you in engaging constructively.

[Mr. WEO]

No... there were people on here saying if it takes $25million a year give it to him. I thought $21million was much more reasonable and I certainly never said he shouldn't be paid more than Rivers. You are very good at arguing against things people have never said. A bit more time take to understand nuanced arguments would really assist you in engaging constructively.

 

 

The nuance here is that everyone was saying what he thinks Wilson is/was worth ("$21 million is much more reasonable", for instance), when that has nothing to do witht he reality of the Seahawks situation.

 

Given their alternatives, they were not negotiating from a position of strength--and Wilson I'm certain was not asking for 25 million anyway. So many here went on and on about whetehr Wilson should be the highest paid QB or not when that point was always irrelevant. I guarantee that the Seahawks were not considering that when negotiating. They knew what his market value was and they knew they had to pay it to him.

 

This was always an inevitable outcome, despite the arguments here of his "worth". I don't recall a thread here debating Tony Romo's new contract (108 mil 6 years, 55 mil guaranteed) for a guy with 2 playoff wins in his long career.

[Alphadawg7]

 

Because if you combine his rushing yards/tds with his passing stats/tds he still doesn't crack the top 7 QB's statistically. Including his rushing stats also puts him on equal footing with other QB's in terms of attempts. So nearing an equal number of attempts he not only rushes/passes for less, but scores less tds than 7 other qbs.

 

Who cares about his totals statistically though? You guys realize this isn't fantasy football right? You realize this isn't Madden right? The object of the game is to be efficient, effective, and win games. He's had the best start to that in the history of football of any QB to ever play in BOTH the regular season and post season (where poster boy Luck has been terrible in comparison).

 

You do also realize that every team has a different game plan too right? Not every team wants to run a spread and throw as often as they can. Not every team is loaded with WR talent like GB. Not every team focuses on just passing. But guess what, the QB is JUST as important on those teams. They have to be able to make the plays, be accurate, run the offense, etc. And Wilson has been exceptional at that.

 

And when your QB is the 16th leading rusher in the whole NFL, and is NOT a run first QB, thats pretty damn effective and impressive. This isn't a running QB trying to learn how to throw...this is a dangerous pocket QB who can make all the throws and then devastate you running when he chooses too.

 

I LOVE fantasy football...and hell, I still play Madden at 39 years old. But those 2 things have ruined the arm chair GM's measuring stick of what a great QB is.

[What a Tuel]

 

Who cares about his totals statistically though? You guys realize this isn't fantasy football right? You realize this isn't Madden right? The object of the game is to be efficient, effective, and win games. He's had the best start to that in the history of football of any QB to ever play in BOTH the regular season and post season (where poster boy Luck has been terrible in comparison).

 

You do also realize that every team has a different game plan too right? Not every team wants to run a spread and throw as often as they can. Not every team is loaded with WR talent like GB. Not every team focuses on just passing. But guess what, the QB is JUST as important on those teams. They have to be able to make the plays, be accurate, run the offense, etc. And Wilson has been exceptional at that.

 

And when your QB is the 16th leading rusher in the whole NFL, and is NOT a run first QB, thats pretty damn effective and impressive. This isn't a running QB trying to learn how to throw...this is a dangerous pocket QB who can make all the throws and then devastate you running when he chooses too.

 

I LOVE fantasy football...and hell, I still play Madden at 39 years old. But those 2 things have ruined the arm chair GM's measuring stick of what a great QB is.

 

You brought up stats or were inquiring about them. I was simply explaining why including his rushing stats do not make a difference. It really has nothing to do with fantasy football.

 

Wilson generated 270 yards of offense per game last year and 1.6 touchdowns and .75 turnovers per game.

 

Roethlisberger generated 311 yards of offense per game last year 2 touchdowns and .87 turnovers per game.

 

Those aren't fantasy football stats. They are unbiased stats based on the production on QBs. Maybe it isn't his fault that he isn't "needed" as much because of the great defense, but facts are that his production on the field doesn't touch the top 5 qbs.

[#34fan]

No... there were people on here saying if it takes $25million a year give it to him. I thought $21million was much more reasonable and I certainly never said he shouldn't be paid more than Rivers. You are very good at arguing against things people have never said. A bit more time take to understand nuanced arguments would really assist you in engaging constructively.

 

Given Wilson's performance over his first three seasons, there was no point in arguing for NOT being the NFL's highest paid player... It would have been gutless... probably even stupid.... Proven commodities owe it to themselves to see what the market will bear... Guys were actually on here calling him the 10th-12th best QB in the league!

 

Bottom line: -He's making top 3 money.. Egg in the face of those who cosidered him unworthy of occupying such rarified air....

Edited August 3, 2015 by #34fan

[What a Tuel]

 

Given Wilson's performance over his first three seasons, there was no point in arguing for NOT being the NFL's highest paid player... It would have been gutless... probably even stupid.... Proven commodities owe it to themselves to see what the market will bear... Guys were actually on here calling him the 10th-12th best QB in the league!

 

Bottom line: -He's making top 3 money.. Egg in the face of those who cosidered him unworthy of occupying such rarified air....

 

There is no egg on anyone's face. Today QB's are very hard to find and there are about a dozen or more teams that aren't set at the position. This artificial inflation of the value of the QB is a completely different argument than whether or not he is one of the top 5 or so QB's in the league. Until people stop bouncing back and forth between those arguments, there will always be confusion and conflicting arguments.

 

He is a good QB, so he will get signed to a large contract period.

 

Just as people were saying he is 10-12 qb, there were people also saying he was second only to Rodgers, which to me is also ridiculous.

Edited August 4, 2015 by What a Tuel

[Alphadawg7]

 

You brought up stats or were inquiring about them. I was simply explaining why including his rushing stats do not make a difference. It really has nothing to do with fantasy football.

 

Wilson generated 270 yards of offense per game last year and 1.6 touchdowns and .75 turnovers per game.

 

Roethlisberger generated 311 yards of offense per game last year 2 touchdowns and .87 turnovers per game.

 

Those aren't fantasy football stats. They are unbiased stats based on the production on QBs. Maybe it isn't his fault that he isn't "needed" as much because of the great defense, but facts are that his production on the field doesn't touch the top 5 qbs.

 

Lets see...Big Ben...long time vet, excellent QB. Russell, 3rd year.

 

Le'Veon Bell > Lynch

Antonio Brown, Bryant, etc are light years better than Seahawks WR's.

Miller substantially better than any TE on the Seahawks the previous 3 years.

 

Pittsburg has become a pass first team.

 

So again, you are focusing on totals (averages are a correlation of totals) instead of efficiency, effectiveness, offensive game plan, etc. Big Ben is also one of the best QBs in the NFL who puts up great stats as well. Russell Wilson has the greatest 3 year start to an NFL QBs career in history...better than Ben, better than Brady, better than Manning...so who's to say that when he is in his 30's on a team thats pass first he wont be putting up the same stats or better than Ben.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Alphadawg7

[What a Tuel]

 

Lets see...Big Ben...long time vet, excellent QB. Russell, 3rd year.

 

Le'Veon Bell > Lynch

Antonio Brown, Bryant, etc are light years better than Seahawks WR's.

Miller substantially better than any TE on the Seahawks the previous 3 years.

 

Pittsburg has become a pass first team.

 

So again, you are focusing on totals (averages are a correlation of totals) instead of efficiency, effectiveness, offensive game plan, etc. Big Ben is also one of the best QBs in the NFL who puts up great stats as well. Russell Wilson has the greatest 3 year start to an NFL QBs career in history...better than Ben, better than Brady, better than Manning...so who's to say that when he is in his 30's on a team thats pass first he wont be putting up the same stats or better than Ben.

 

The bolded is the problem people have. We should probably wait until he is in his 30's and putting up the same or better stats before we project his success and crown him.

 

The rest is excuses. As I have said before, the Seahawk's had Golden Tate, and let him go. He went from being an 900 yard WR under Wilson to 1300 yard WR under Stafford with Calvin Johnson hobbled all last year. We will see how Jimmy Graham's production goes.

Edited August 4, 2015 by What a Tuel

[Alphadawg7]

 

The bolded is the problem people have. We should probably wait until he is in his 30's and putting up the same or better stats before we project his success and crown him.

 

The rest is excuses. As I have said before, the Seahawk's had Golden Tate, and let him go. He went from being an 900 yard WR under Wilson to 1300 yard WR under Stafford with Calvin Johnson hobbled all last year. We will see how Jimmy Graham's production goes.

 

The bolded is not how the NFL works or any sport. Players on the rise with major accomplishments performing at a high level always get big deals. Wilsons deal was a steal for Seattle and a total win win. Any team in the NFL would utterly stupid to not give Wilson that contract.

 

Here is the best part...people are willing to give Luck waaaaay more money than that despite that he's sucked in the playoffs for 3 years. Puts up gaudy regular season stats and yet in the 3 playoff seasons has YET to have one with more TD's than INT's. His best QB rating is almost 20 points lower than Wilsons lowest QB rating in the the 3 playoff years.

 

So, what has Luck proved that Wilson has not proved? Wilson has proven he can make ALL the throws. He has proven he can come up big when it matters. He has proven to be a dangerous run threat (16th in rushing in the whole league last year). He has proven he can win the Super Bowl. He has proven he can execute the offense. He has proven he can win. He has proven he can be highly efficient. He has proven he can protect the ball.

 

Luck has proven he can compile stats when throwing a ton. He has also proven he turns the ball over way too much. Personally, Luck is big time ascending star, so this isn't about tearing Luck down, I would give my right arm to have him in Buffalo or Wilson in Buffalo. The point is, Luck vs Wilson will always be the comparison given they came out together and both are proving to be the future of the league. But I don't understand why Luck is worth so much money and Wilson isn't given Wilson has done so much more than Luck already and grossly out performed him in the post season.

 

Again, i have heard this story before. It was always Manning vs Brady and how much better Manning is despite a horrible post season career compared to Bradys. Or Marino vs Montanna. Give me the guy who WINS, is efficient, can do it all, and proven it on the field. That guy is Wilson, and he earned this check.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

And most of us Alpha have no problem with this deal and agree it would have been the definition of stupidity to let him walk if this was what it took to keep him. It was when the talk was of paying him $25m or $26m per year with a huge percentage guaranteed that we were questioning whether there was a point where the price became too rich.

 

I think if this post had been started with a question as to whether Wilson was worth extending for 4 years at an average of $21.9m per year there would be almost nobody answering "no".