Russell Wilson and the Seahawks negotiations (update:signed)

[Alphadawg7]

wilson benefits from a good defense and just enough offense (and luck) to win. Anywhere else he's average. Except maybe he's good in baseball.

 

Except for that pesky thing about facts where he's had statistically the best 3 year start or near best in almost every category for a QB in the regular season and post season. You guys act like he just sits back there hands the ball off and barely throws. I mean the lack of respect for the kid is mind blowing.

 

Considering Lycnh had a career rushing average of 3.99 before Wilson and 4.65 YPC with Wilson, seems some of the guys people are giving all the credit too benefited greatly from Wilson.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Except for that pesky thing about facts where he's had statistically the best 3 year start or near best in almost every category for a QB in the regular season and post season. You guys act like he just sits back there hands the ball off and barely throws. I mean the lack of respect for the kid is mind blowing.

 

Considering Lycnh had a career rushing average of 3.99 before Wilson and 4.65 YPC with Wilson, seems some of the guys people are giving all the credit too benefited greatly from Wilson.

Alpha, these are solid points. Personally, I love the makeup of Wilson and think he's good. I just think he benefits tremendously from a great team.

 

For some reason, we just think all Qbs are created equal. But situation matters. Wilson got one of the best situations ever. It's similar to what Joe Flacco walked into. In all honestly, what do you think the drop off is if Wilson and Newton switch teams? Because, IMO, the Seahawks are still SB contenders with Newton.

 

Some people are underestimating what a great defense does for a qb. Wilson doesn't have the pressure of knowing he has to score a lot of points to win. If he makes a mistake, it won't kill his team like he would on a bad team. It's why I think we are overrating the qb situation here. It is going to be very hard for a qb to completely destroy this team.

 

I think Wilson is much better than Dalton. But they have very similar passing stats through 3 years and Dalton has made the playoffs every year of his career. Like Wilson, he benefits from a good situation.

 

Wilson will get paid by Seattle. But I think the Seahwaks will fall back when Wilson is forced to carry them more (Graham was a great pick up though). JMO.

[Alphadawg7]

Alpha, these are solid points. Personally, I love the makeup of Wilson and think he's good. I just think he benefits tremendously from a great team.

 

For some reason, we just think all Qbs are created equal. But situation matters. Wilson got one of the best situations ever. It's similar to what Joe Flacco walked into. In all honestly, what do you think the drop off is if Wilson and Newton switch teams? Because, IMO, the Seahawks are still SB contenders with Newton.

 

Some people are underestimating what a great defense does for a qb. Wilson doesn't have the pressure of knowing he has to score a lot of points to win. If he makes a mistake, it won't kill his team like he would on a bad team. It's why I think we are overrating the qb situation here. It is going to be very hard for a qb to completely destroy this team.

 

I think Wilson is much better than Dalton. But they have very similar passing stats through 3 years and Dalton has made the playoffs every year of his career. Like Wilson, he benefits from a good situation.

 

Wilson will get paid by Seattle. But I think the Seahwaks will fall back when Wilson is forced to carry them more (Graham was a great pick up though). JMO.

 

I hear you and always respect your opinion and enjoy your thoughts. To be clear, I am in no way diminishing the impact a team around a QB has on a QB. But here is the rub for me...no body, not a single person, said when Wilson was named starter in the preseason of his rookie year that "Wilson was inheriting one of the best situations ever" when he took over a consecutive 7 win team. Now, people want to say it was the best situation ever and its only because of it that Wilson has had success. Its mind blowing. There was talk about the young RBs taking time away from Lynch even as he wasnt exactly lighting it up.

 

There are substantial, seriously substantial increases in all facets of Seattle since Wilson took over. People want to say that a great D takes the pressure off of Wilson, yet totally ignore that an offense that can stay on the field, move the chains, score, etc takes off even more pressure on the Defense. People want to say the incredible Lynch takes all the pressure off Wilson, yet they totally ignore that incredible was not a term used on Lynch and his sub 4 YPC average before Wilson came and made the offense quite a bit better, allowing Lynch to run dramatically more effective raising his YPC to 4.65.

 

Wilson is in no way soley responsible, but the magnitude of change since he took over is too great to discredit him as much as he is on this board.

 

I totally agree that situations are significant. But to answer your question...if Cam and Wilson switched places, I whole heartedly believe Seattle has zero Super Bowls. I don't think Cam is anywhere near as clutch, mentally strong, or the leader that Wilson is. People keep saying the D and run take him out of pressure situations, but all I see is this kid constantly coming up big in pressure situations. People want to site that post season GB game last year and point out how bad he was...yet rather than get down on himself (see Cam Newton) and sulk, this kid came out and won the game with ALL the pressure on him and after he had a rough outing. I don't see Cam winning that game.

 

And every QB has bad games...Brady was so bad early last year people started talking about benching him before he got pissed off and turned it around. But thats what winners do...they dig down in the toughest moments and find a way to win. Wilson has done that multiple times in the biggest moments. No QB is perfect, its how you respond that makes you great. Thats why Manning will never be able to touch Brady, or even Kurt Warner for that matter in my book.

 

PS: On Dalton...wouldnt you agree that Dalton has SIGNIFICANTLY better weapons than Wilson? Yet they have similar stats...thats another strong endorsement for Wilson as he's done a lot more with a lot less to work with at WR and TE. Not to mention, people hear keep saying Seattle is a running team, yet Cincy has mostly been a passing team. So despite being an alleged run first offense with less talent to throw to, he has similar stats to a QB on a passing team with one of the richest WR and TE groups in the NFL.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

 

I hear you and always respect your opinion and enjoy your thoughts. To be clear, I am in no way diminishing the impact a team around a QB has on a QB. But here is the rub for me...no body, not a single person, said when Wilson was named starter in the preseason of his rookie year that "Wilson was inheriting one of the best situations ever" when he took over a consecutive 7 win team. Now, people want to say it was the best situation ever and its only because of it that Wilson has had success. Its mind blowing. There was talk about the young RBs taking time away from Lynch even as he wasnt exactly lighting it up.

 

There are substantial, seriously substantial increases in all facets of Seattle since Wilson took over. People want to say that a great D takes the pressure off of Wilson, yet totally ignore that an offense that can stay on the field, move the chains, score, etc takes off even more pressure on the Defense. People want to say the incredible Lynch takes all the pressure off Wilson, yet they totally ignore that incredible was not a term used on Lynch and his sub 4 YPC average before Wilson came and made the offense quite a bit better, allowing Lynch to run dramatically more effective raising his YPC to 4.65.

 

Wilson is in no way soley responsible, but the magnitude of change since he took over is too great to discredit him as much as he is on this board.

 

I totally agree that situations are significant. But to answer your question...if Cam and Wilson switched places, I whole heartedly believe Seattle has zero Super Bowls. I don't think Cam is anywhere near as clutch, mentally strong, or the leader that Wilson is. People keep saying the D and run take him out of pressure situations, but all I see is this kid constantly coming up big in pressure situations. People want to site that post season GB game last year and point out how bad he was...yet rather than get down on himself (see Cam Newton) and sulk, this kid came out and won the game with ALL the pressure on him and after he had a rough outing. I don't see Cam winning that game.

 

And every QB has bad games...Brady was so bad early last year people started talking about benching him before he got pissed off and turned it around. But thats what winners do...they dig down in the toughest moments and find a way to win. Wilson has done that multiple times in the biggest moments. No QB is perfect, its how you respond that makes you great. Thats why Manning will never be able to touch Brady, or even Kurt Warner for that matter in my book.

 

PS: On Dalton...wouldnt you agree that Dalton has SIGNIFICANTLY better weapons than Wilson? Yet they have similar stats...thats another strong endorsement for Wilson as he's done a lot more with a lot less to work with at WR and TE. Not to mention, people hear keep saying Seattle is a running team, yet Cincy has mostly been a passing team. So despite being an alleged run first offense with less talent to throw to, he has similar stats to a QB on a passing team with one of the richest WR and TE groups in the NFL.

You're one of my favorite posters. You always present good points.

 

1) I disagree on Newton. He doesn't have a ton of weapons and think he has grown up a lot in the NFL. I think Seattle doesn't miss a beat with him.

 

2) Agree on Dalton. I thought he got too much crap before last year. But he was awful once Green went out.

 

3) IMO, it's a lot easier to be clutch when your defense gives you a ton of chances. Folks used to say Sanchez was clutch those first couple of years. Truth was, he was awful all game and the reason where those games were even close. Wilson is a miles better than Sanchez but his D allows him chances that other QBs don't get.

 

What team doesn't get destroyed against Rodgers when they throw 4 ints? Seattle is the only team that could win that game and it was more because of an amazing defense.

 

Either way, I'd beyond thrilled if EJ (who had very similar stats through his first 8 games as Wilson did through his first 8) or Taylor could do a poor man's Russell Wilson impression. The 15 year old drought would be done. Either way, go Bills and enjoy your 4th!

[Alphadawg7]

You're one of my favorite posters. You always present good points.

 

1) I disagree on Newton. He doesn't have a ton of weapons and think he has grown up a lot in the NFL. I think Seattle doesn't miss a beat with him.

 

2) Agree on Dalton. I thought he got too much crap before last year. But he was awful once Green went out.

 

3) IMO, it's a lot easier to be clutch when your defense gives you a ton of chances. Folks used to say Sanchez was clutch those first couple of years. Truth was, he was awful all game and the reason where those games were even close. Wilson is a miles better than Sanchez but his D allows him chances that other QBs don't get.

 

What team doesn't get destroyed against Rodgers when they throw 4 ints? Seattle is the only team that could win that game and it was more because of an amazing defense.

 

Either way, I'd beyond thrilled if EJ (who had very similar stats through his first 8 games as Wilson did through his first 8) or Taylor could do a poor man's Russell Wilson impression. The 15 year old drought would be done. Either way, go Bills and enjoy your 4th!

 

Right back you, enjoy your 4th as well...I know I will since we are throwing a 800-1000 person annual beach bash in front of our house. Now the 5th, when I am hung over and having to clean up the destruction...thats a different story lol.

[Mr. WEO]

Alpha, these are solid points. Personally, I love the makeup of Wilson and think he's good. I just think he benefits tremendously from a great team.

 

 

So did Jim Kelly.

[Big C]

 

I hear you and always respect your opinion and enjoy your thoughts. To be clear, I am in no way diminishing the impact a team around a QB has on a QB. But here is the rub for me...no body, not a single person, said when Wilson was named starter in the preseason of his rookie year that "Wilson was inheriting one of the best situations ever" when he took over a consecutive 7 win team. Now, people want to say it was the best situation ever and its only because of it that Wilson has had success. Its mind blowing. There was talk about the young RBs taking time away from Lynch even as he wasnt exactly lighting it up.

 

There are substantial, seriously substantial increases in all facets of Seattle since Wilson took over. People want to say that a great D takes the pressure off of Wilson, yet totally ignore that an offense that can stay on the field, move the chains, score, etc takes off even more pressure on the Defense. People want to say the incredible Lynch takes all the pressure off Wilson, yet they totally ignore that incredible was not a term used on Lynch and his sub 4 YPC average before Wilson came and made the offense quite a bit better, allowing Lynch to run dramatically more effective raising his YPC to 4.65.

 

Wilson is in no way soley responsible, but the magnitude of change since he took over is too great to discredit him as much as he is on this board.

 

I totally agree that situations are significant. But to answer your question...if Cam and Wilson switched places, I whole heartedly believe Seattle has zero Super Bowls. I don't think Cam is anywhere near as clutch, mentally strong, or the leader that Wilson is. People keep saying the D and run take him out of pressure situations, but all I see is this kid constantly coming up big in pressure situations. People want to site that post season GB game last year and point out how bad he was...yet rather than get down on himself (see Cam Newton) and sulk, this kid came out and won the game with ALL the pressure on him and after he had a rough outing. I don't see Cam winning that game.

 

And every QB has bad games...Brady was so bad early last year people started talking about benching him before he got pissed off and turned it around. But thats what winners do...they dig down in the toughest moments and find a way to win. Wilson has done that multiple times in the biggest moments. No QB is perfect, its how you respond that makes you great. Thats why Manning will never be able to touch Brady, or even Kurt Warner for that matter in my book.

 

PS: On Dalton...wouldnt you agree that Dalton has SIGNIFICANTLY better weapons than Wilson? Yet they have similar stats...thats another strong endorsement for Wilson as he's done a lot more with a lot less to work with at WR and TE. Not to mention, people hear keep saying Seattle is a running team, yet Cincy has mostly been a passing team. So despite being an alleged run first offense with less talent to throw to, he has similar stats to a QB on a passing team with one of the richest WR and TE groups in the NFL.

Good point about how no one said it was a great situation going into his rookie year. Does Flynn take that team from 7 to 11 wins?

[Mr. WEO]

Good point about how no one said it was a great situation going into his rookie year. Does Flynn take that team from 7 to 11 wins?

 

I just tossed Flynn a fiver after he wiped down my car at Delta Sonic

[Alphadawg7]

 

I just tossed Flynn a fiver after he wiped down my car at Delta Sonic

Hahahaha nice

[What a Tuel]

Can't there be a distinction between a Flynn, a Wilson, and a Rodgers? Why does Wilson have to be either a Flynn or Rodgers?

 

I guess the people saying Wilson is second in demand only to Rodgers (and maybe Luck) should clarify that age plays a major factor in that decision and not capability, because there are a number of QB's out there that are simply better, but are getting up there in age.

 

Edit: Just want to add that Wilson had a weapon in Golden Tate. Tate is a 1,331 yard WR under Stafford with Calvin Johnson hobbled last year. Chalk that up to passing attempts or whatever, but Tate was a WR.

 

Also Lynch had his best year during Wilson's rookie year. You can argue that was because of Wilson, and I'd agree with you, but does that make Wilson elite? Isn't that what we are hoping for here in Buffalo? A QB that can do something to take the pressure off of McCoy and the defense? Would we call that QB Elite too?

Edited July 4, 2015 by What a Tuel

[Mr. WEO]

Can't there be a distinction between a Flynn, a Wilson, and a Rodgers? Why does Wilson have to be either a Flynn or Rodgers?

 

I guess the people saying Wilson is second in demand only to Rodgers (and maybe Luck) should clarify that age plays a major factor in that decision and not capability, because there are a number of QB's out there that are simply better, but are getting up there in age.

 

Edit: Just want to add that Wilson had a weapon in Golden Tate. Tate is a 1,331 yard WR under Stafford with Calvin Johnson hobbled last year. Chalk that up to passing attempts or whatever, but Tate was a WR.

 

Also Lynch had his best year during Wilson's rookie year. You can argue that was because of Wilson, and I'd agree with you, but does that make Wilson elite? Isn't that what we are hoping for here in Buffalo? A QB that can do something to take the pressure off of McCoy and the defense? Would we call that QB Elite too?

 

If our QB had led us to 2 conference championship wins and a SB win in three years and was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2 of those years and had a career rating of 99....wouldn't we have to consider him elite?

Edited July 4, 2015 by Mr. WEO

[thebandit27]

 

If our QB had led us to 2 conference championship wins and a SB win in three years and was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2 of those years and had a career rating of 99....wouldn't we have to consider him elite?

So was EJ an elite college QB?

[Mr. WEO]

So was EJ an elite college QB?

 

No one cares.

[What a Tuel]

 

If our QB had led us to 2 conference championship wins and a SB win in three years and was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2 of those years and had a career rating of 99....wouldn't we have to consider him elite?

 

I know people have bad games, but the guy throws 4 INTs in the packers conference championship, and threw the game losing INT in the super bowl on 21 pass attempts. For reference Brady threw 50. What exactly is the guy leading?

[Beerball]

So was EJ an elite college QB?

I don't get how this relates, but, to answer your question, no.

[thebandit27]

I don't get how this relates, but, to answer your question, no.

The discussion is largely centered around whether or not Wilson is elite.

 

Apparently 1 conference championship appearance, a Superbowl appearance, and a Superbowl victory combined with his passer rating make him so...

 

Unless WEO has shifted course dramatically, his opinion on EJ--even as a college QB--doesn't align with his apparent beliefs on the subject, so I'm wondering why Wilson is automatically elite based on those things when that proverbial measuring stick doesn't seem to apply across the board?

 

No one cares.

You're welcome to explain the difference in the situations.

[JohnC]

The discussion is largely centered around whether or not Wilson is elite.

 

Apparently 1 conference championship appearance, a Superbowl appearance, and a Superbowl victory combined with his passer rating make him so...

 

Unless WEO has shifted course dramatically, his opinion on EJ--even as a college QB--doesn't align with his apparent beliefs on the subject, so I'm wondering why Wilson is automatically elite based on those things when that proverbial measuring stick doesn't seem to apply across the board?[/]

 

You're welcome to explain the difference in the situations.

The standard WEO is applying relates to the pro game and not the college game to the pro game. What makes Wilson special is his high level of maturity on the field in the beginning of his career compared to the typical struggles that a young qb, such as Manuel, is undergoing.

 

Wilson and his agent are asking for a top market $$$ contract not because he is the best qb in the game (in my mind Rodgers is the best) but because he is negotiating a deal at a time where the market is and where it is moving to. If I'm not mistaken Rodgers' s currently has the richest contract. But if he was negotiating a deal now his new deal would be higher than his already current deal. That's simply the nature and the norm for deals not only in the NFL but in pro sports in general. That certainly is exemplified by the exploding contracts in the NBA. Timing is the crucial factor.

 

There is an irony to the Wilson contract situation. Wilson and his team have benefited because he is playing under a minuscule first contract for a third round pick that has allowed the Seahawks plenty of cap room to pay for added high quality talent. When he eventually gets a deal done his new rich contract will put a lot of cap pressure on the franchise to jettison a lot of the talent already on the team.

[Lurker]

Really interesting stats from today's Boston Globe:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/04/sizing-afc-east-top-offseason-moves/fH2BRlOah7gBC4J2BrC8mI/story.html

"Russell Wilson’s rookie contract is set to expire after the 2015 season and multiple media reports indicate the Seattle Seahawks quarterback wants to become the highest-paid signal-caller in the NFL. He has good reason to seek such a deal. Here’s how Wilson compares statistically with the quarterbacks with the highest average salaries:"


Winning percentage

Russell Wilson
.750

Aaron Rodgers
.680

Ben Roethlisberger
.671

Joe Flacco
.643

Matt Ryan
.600

Drew Brees
.582

Cam Newton
.492


Winning percentage in the playoffs

Wilson
.750

Flacco
.667

Roethlisberger
.667

Brees
.545

Rodgers
.545

Newton
.333

Ryan
.200


Average salary

Rodgers
$22M

Roethlisberger
$21.85M

Newton
$21.76M

Ryan
$21.75M

Flacco
$20.1M

Brees
$20M

Wilson
$749,176


Average passing yards per season

Ryan
4,024

Brees
4,002

Flacco
3,647

Newton
3,607

Roethlisberger
3,551

Wilson
3,317

Rodgers
2,858


Average total TDs per season

Brees
29

Newton
29

Wilson
28

Ryan
27

Rodgers
25

Roethlisberger
24

Flacco
23


Average turnovers per season

Rodgers
9

Wilson
13

Roethlisberger
17

Ryan
17

Brees
18

Flacco
19

Newton
19



Compiled by Michael Grossi

Edited July 5, 2015 by Lurker

[Mr. WEO]

 

I know people have bad games, but the guy throws 4 INTs in the packers conference championship, and threw the game losing INT in the super bowl on 21 pass attempts. For reference Brady threw 50. What exactly is the guy leading?

 

Well, leading them to the NFCC win includes getting them to the game. As for the SB--it's is clear that you did not watch the game--or if you did, you are using the final play and pretending the rest of the game didn't happen to make your very weak point. He led them on 4 scoring drives and had them 10 points up on the patriots with onloy 8 minutes to go before his Defense gave up 14 points in the 4th Q....and he then brought them (passes of 31, 11 and 33 yards)80 yards down the field in under 2 minutes to the 1 yard line, where a rookie DB made a great int to cost them the game.

 

The discussion is largely centered around whether or not Wilson is elite.

 

Apparently 1 conference championship appearance, a Superbowl appearance, and a Superbowl victory combined with his passer rating make him so...

 

Unless WEO has shifted course dramatically, his opinion on EJ--even as a college QB--doesn't align with his apparent beliefs on the subject, so I'm wondering why Wilson is automatically elite based on those things when that proverbial measuring stick doesn't seem to apply across the board?

 

You're welcome to explain the difference in the situations.

 

No one in the NFL cares how great you might not have been at your alma mater. Does that really need more of an explanation?

 

Also, it's 2 conf championship appearances and 2 SBs in 3 years. What this has to do with EJ on any level other than they are both NFL QBs is a complete mystery. I have not used Wilson's colege record as a measuring stick. I've used everyhthing but, actually.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Mr. WEO

[NoSaint]

 

Well, leading them to the NFCC win includes getting them to the game. As for the SB--it's is clear that you did not watch the game--or if you did, you are using the final play and pretending the rest of the game didn't happen to make your very weak point. He led them on 4 scoring drives and had them 10 points up on the patriots with onloy 8 minutes to go before his Defense gave up 14 points in the 4th Q....and he then brought them (passes of 31, 11 and 33 yards)80 yards down the field in under 2 minutes to the 1 yard line, where a rookie DB made a great int to cost them the game.

 

 

No one in the NFL cares how great you might not have been at your alma mater. Does that really need more of an explanation?

 

Also, it's 2 conf championship appearances and 2 SBs in 3 years. What this has to do with EJ on any level other than they are both NFL QBs is a complete mystery. I have not used Wilson's colege record as a measuring stick. I've used everyhthing but, actually.

He was asking about EJs college resume compared to your perception of his college career. Not saying EJ is an all pro nfl player as a result of it