mannc Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I don't think he will get the richest contract. I bet he will settle for less than that.i don't. I think he is pissed at having had to work for minimum wage the past three seasons. If he's not, he should be.
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 isn't that what I said? Dilfer a SB Champ, Flacco a SB Champ, Wilson a SB Champ he's done well in his short career, BUT he isn't the "passing QB" many say are needed now is he? so far all they managed is 1 SB win each. Peton Manning a SB Champ...you left that one out. Wilson and Flacco are an order of magnitude better than Dilfer. You would have sounded smarter comparing Dilfer to McMahon. i don't. I think he is pissed at having had to work for minimum wage the past three seasons. If he's not, he should be. Then every rookie should feel the same way. But they don't. They know the rules and gleefully sing on the dotted line, so, no.
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I don't think he will get the richest contract. I bet he will settle for less than that. I don't think he will get the richest contract either unless its a marvel of team friendly engineering and richest only at first glance. It really doesn't make any sense to pay the kid top $$ if the team's dogmatic offensive philosophy dictates that the they won't use their franchise QB to his full potential.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Peton Manning a SB Champ...you left that one out. Wilson and Flacco are an order of magnitude better than Dilfer. You would have sounded smarter comparing Dilfer to McMahon. Then every rookie should feel the same way. But they don't. They know the rules and gleefully sing on the dotted line, so, no. He is a unique case. He was basically discriminated against for Short Man's Disease or else he would have been in the top five picks. So he may feel differently than your average third rounder.
mannc Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Then every rookie should feel the same way. But they don't. They know the rules and gleefully sing on the dotted line, so, no. Nonsense. Wilson has played every bit as well as Luck has and has been paid a fraction as much $$, all because people foolishly doubted him and he slipped in the draft. Why shouldn't he be pissed? And tell me what choice he had, other than not play football at all.
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I don't think he will get the richest contract either unless its a marvel of team friendly engineering and richest only at first glance. It really doesn't make any sense to pay the kid top $$ if the team's dogmatic offensive philosophy dictates that the they won't use their franchise QB to his full potential. They don't win half those games with any other QB they had at their service then or since. He has done everything they asked and done it extremely well. They his carreer is one of near perfection since he joined the league. Didn't Flacco get max money? You go on as though he is McMahon or Dilfer. Nonsense. Wilson has played every bit as well as Luck has and has been paid a fraction as much $$, all because people foolishly doubted him and he slipped in the draft. Why shouldn't he be pissed? And tell me what choice he had, other than not play football at all. Well.....obviously baseball. But anyway, it makes no sense to say he should be angry...no sense at all.
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 They don't win half those games with any other QB they had at their service then or since. He has done everything they asked and done it extremely well. They his carreer is one of near perfection since he joined the league. Didn't Flacco get max money? You go on as though he is McMahon or Dilfer. Cool. Is there a point?
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Cool. Is there a point? Did you just "cool story, bro" me?!
mannc Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 They don't win half those games with any other QB they had at their service then or since. He has done everything they asked and done it extremely well. They his carreer is one of near perfection since he joined the league. Didn't Flacco get max money? You go on as though he is McMahon or Dilfer. Well.....obviously baseball. But anyway, it makes no sense to say he should be angry...no sense at all. Why not? The Seahawks have had a free ride the last three years, at his expense. I know thems the rules, but I am sure the guy has been playing with a chip on his shoulder. Nothing wrong with that.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 But anyway, it makes no sense to say he should be angry...no sense at all. Sure it does. Short people are born angry. He's angry like Tyrion Lannister is angry.
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Why not? The Seahawks have had a free ride the last three years, at his expense. I know thems the rules, but I am sure the guy has been playing with a chip on his shoulder. Nothing wrong with that. The Seahawks paid him what teams pay third rounders. You left out the part where they were the only ones who drafted him and then they believed in him enough to name him the starter over a FA they just singed for 26 million (10 guaranteed). Sure it does. Short people are born angry. He's angry like Tyrion Lannister is angry. Does this mean he shoots owner Allen in the privy?
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Did you just "cool story, bro" me?! Basically. I don't what you're arguing with that last post. Is it: 1. That Russel Wilson is elite? 2. That RW will get paid top dollar? 3. Did you just want to segue to Dilfer and McMahon and get a head start on utter madness? Either way, I'm having trouble reconciling your respective positions. You posit RW is elite but the Squawks' philosophy doesn't emphasize the passing game otherwise we might see that elite level production. So why would they pay top dollar for something that they don't intend to fully use? If I'm GM, I am not going to pay someone like Aaron Rodgers if the plan is to use that player more like Alex Smiff. Especially when paying a QB a max contract basically prevents me from sticking to the philosophy and assembling/retaining a "smothering defense" and top run game. Furthermore, if I'm GM and I've got an elite QB on the roster and my coach insists on using him more like Alex Smiff, I'm probably looking for new coaches and coordinators. I don't think the above jives well. I think its far more likely that Wilson is NOT an elite QB at this stage in his development which is why he isn't used as much as any other starting QB in the NFL. I think its highly UN-likely that any franchise with an elite QB would choose not to exploit that players talents in interest of adhering to a dogmatic offensive philosophy. I think Russel is a solid player and will ultimately get paid near top dollar but with a team friendly structure. I believe that he will get paid handsomely NOT because hes an elite QB but because he is young and still may grow into a premier passer and also due to the implicit cost (as measured financially and in wins) to replace a scarce commodity is just too high. Plus its basically career suicide for an exec to let him walk after a super bowl (he isn't Dilfer, after all) unless you've got a future hall of famer waiting to replace him. This set of statements strikes me as far more cohesive and plausible.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Basically. I don't what you're arguing with that last post. Is it: 1. That Russel Wilson is elite? 2. That RW will get paid top dollar? 3. Did you just want to segue to Dilfer and McMahon and get a head start on utter madness? Either way, I'm having trouble reconciling your respective positions. You posit RW is elite but the Squawks' philosophy doesn't emphasize the passing game otherwise we might see that elite level production. So why would they pay top dollar for something that they don't intend to fully use? If I'm GM, I am not going to pay someone like Aaron Rodgers if the plan is to use that player more like Alex Smiff. Especially when paying a QB a max contract basically prevents me from sticking to the philosophy and assembling/retaining a "smothering defense" and top run game. Furthermore, if I'm GM and I've got an elite QB on the roster and my coach insists on using him more like Alex Smiff, I'm probably looking for new coaches and coordinators. I don't think the above jives well. I think its far more likely that Wilson is NOT an elite QB at this stage in his development which is why he isn't used as much as any other starting QB in the NFL. I think its highly UN-likely that any franchise with an elite QB would choose not to exploit that players talents in interest of adhering to a dogmatic offensive philosophy. I think Russel is a solid player and will ultimately get paid near top dollar but with a team friendly structure. I believe that he will get paid handsomely NOT because hes an elite QB but because he is young and still may grow into a premier passer and also due to the implicit cost (as measured financially and in wins) to replace a scarce commodity is just too high. Plus its basically career suicide for an exec to let him walk after a super bowl (he isn't Dilfer, after all) unless you've got a future hall of famer waiting to replace him. This set of statements strikes me as far more cohesive and plausible. Or they have crappy receivers and injury prone TEs.
mannc Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) The Seahawks paid him what teams pay third rounders. You left out the part where they were the only ones who drafted him and then they believed in him enough to name him the starter over a FA they just singed for 26 million /quote] I never suggested the Seahawks did anything wrong. They had the foresight to take a chance on RW and they hit the jackpot. It does it change the fact that Wilson was massively underpaid the lasts 3 years. Funny how in the NFL, underpaid guys like RW have to just suck it up, but overpaid guys get cut. It is the legacy of many years of representation by an incompetent players' union. Edited June 29, 2015 by mannc
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Basically. I don't what you're arguing with that last post. Is it: 1. That Russel Wilson is elite? 2. That RW will get paid top dollar? 3. Did you just want to segue to Dilfer and McMahon and get a head start on utter madness? Either way, I'm having trouble reconciling your respective positions. You posit RW is elite but the Squawks' philosophy doesn't emphasize the passing game otherwise we might see that elite level production. So why would they pay top dollar for something that they don't intend to fully use? If I'm GM, I am not going to pay someone like Aaron Rodgers if the plan is to use that player more like Alex Smiff. Especially when paying a QB a max contract basically prevents me from sticking to the philosophy and assembling/retaining a "smothering defense" and top run game. Furthermore, if I'm GM and I've got an elite QB on the roster and my coach insists on using him more like Alex Smiff, I'm probably looking for new coaches and coordinators. I don't think the above jives well. I think its far more likely that Wilson is NOT an elite QB at this stage in his development which is why he isn't used as much as any other starting QB in the NFL. I think its highly UN-likely that any franchise with an elite QB would choose not to exploit that players talents in interest of adhering to a dogmatic offensive philosophy. I think Russel is a solid player and will ultimately get paid near top dollar but with a team friendly structure. I believe that he will get paid handsomely NOT because hes an elite QB but because he is young and still may grow into a premier passer and also due to the implicit cost (as measured financially and in wins) to replace a scarce commodity is just too high. Plus its basically career suicide for an exec to let him walk after a super bowl (he isn't Dilfer, after all) unless you've got a future hall of famer waiting to replace him. This set of statements strikes me as far more cohesive and plausible. Pretty straightforward. I've spelled my position out pretty clearly. I think he is an elite QB and said so upstream. Elite does not turn on yards churned out alone. I listed all the features of his game that I think make him so. I don't think he will get the top money in the leaugue (you saw this post and commented on it). Another poster already segued into Dilfer and I added McMahon as the more appropriate comparison and said why. I already commented that they will pay him a huge sum because he there is also no viable option for them, just as you said. If they want Wilson to throw 550-600 pass pace at some time this year, say if Lynch goes down, I see no rerason why he can't and then put up the numbers that you are looking for. Otherwise, they have a perfect plan for success as is. If Rodgers or Luck played for the current Seattle roster and coacjing staff, they would not be attempting 600-650 passes per year. Pretty simple, I think. You would be paying them for past performance (their market value)--even if you will never use them like they were used on their previous teams. As you say, and I agree, they will also be paying Wilson for future production since he is only 3 years and I think is fit to change with any new offensive scheme they need in the future. The Seahawks paid him what teams pay third rounders. You left out the part where they were the only ones who drafted him and then they believed in him enough to name him the starter over a FA they just singed for 26 million /quote] I never suggested the Seahawks did anything wrong. They had the foresight to take a chance on RW and they hit the jackpot. It does it change the fact that Wilson was massively underpaid the lasts 3 years. Funny how in the NFL, underpaid guys like RW have to just suck it up, but overpaid guys get cut. It is the legacy of many years of representation by an incompetent players' union. You said the Seahawks were taking a free ride at his expense.... That's just not true--not more than anyone else drafted in his status.
BarleyNY Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 People forget that there are really big names out there for the 2016 free agent QB class. I could definitely see the Seahawks slapping a tag on Wilson, getting two 1st round picks, saving their defense by not being on the hook for a gigantic long term deal AND then signing either Rivers or E. Manning to a two year deal. They could then draft a 1st or 2nd rd QB in 2016 to groom behind the veteran. If I'm Seattle I don't like hearing Wilson's demand for being the highest paid player. That's like slapping the hand that gave you the perfect situation to maximize your first big NFL contract. Seattle should get a break on the deal. I almost hope that Seattle ends up trading Wilson to the Browns so that he's really on the hook to prove that he's worth that kind of money. Because there will be no where to hide (see Marshawn plus great defense) there. And start who at QB? Teams with quality QBs are rarely go to let them slip away. Wilson's agent can posture all he wants about Wilson deserving to be the highest paid player in the league and the Seahawks can posture all they want about them making him play out his contract/tagging him/trading him, but the reality is that it is in the best interest of both sides to get a reasonably fair deal done. That's almost certainly what will happen. As for a bunch of big named QBs making it to free agency this offseason - I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe one makes it. Maybe.
Alphadawg7 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I keep hearing the Seattle run game and D are why Wilson is good. So I have a few observations that strongly seem to suggest otherwise: 1. Seattle was 7-9 both the 2 season prior to Wilson with a tough D and Lynch. 2. Seattle has won 11 games, 13 games and 12 games in the 3 years with Wilson for an average of 12 wins a year, thats 5 more than before him. 3. Marshawn Lynch career YPC before Wilson (Buffalo and 2 years in Seattle) is 3.99 YPC. In 2 years in Seattle, it was 3.95 YPC before Wilson alone. 4. Marshawn Lynch career YPC with Wilson in Seattle for 3 years is 4.65 YPC...a dramatic increase. 5. Seattle before Wilson...no playoffs in 4 years. 2 of those years with a tough D, Lynch and Pete. Seattle with Wilson, 3 playoffs, 2 Super Bowl Appearances and Super Bowl trophy for a team that rarely sniffs the Super Bowl. 6. Wilson has had the best or close to the best start in just about every major passing statistic for a QBs first 3 years in NFL history. 7. He has a playoff passer rating over 100 in 2 of the 3 years and one over 90. How can anyone deny the direct impact this kid has had on this team? Its so easy to say its the team around him, but if you look at what the same team around him did before him and after its undeniable the impact he has had. In fact, the opposite seems to be true...Lynch averaged UNDER 4 yards on his career as a running back until Wilson came to town and Lynch put together the best 3 year stretch of his career. I would pay that man if I was Seattle.
GunnerBill Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Seattle hadn't gone 4 years without the play-offs. They made them in Carroll's first year as a 7-9 team and won a play-off game too.
ALF Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Michael Bennett signed a new contract last year , now might sit out for more. The salary cap will play a bigger part in parity now Guaranteed contracts like in hockey are dangerous if a player isn't worth the big money and has to be bought out over the next 8 years.
Mr. WEO Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 I keep hearing the Seattle run game and D are why Wilson is good. So I have a few observations that strongly seem to suggest otherwise: 1. Seattle was 7-9 both the 2 season prior to Wilson with a tough D and Lynch. 2. Seattle has won 11 games, 13 games and 12 games in the 3 years with Wilson for an average of 12 wins a year, thats 5 more than before him. 3. Marshawn Lynch career YPC before Wilson (Buffalo and 2 years in Seattle) is 3.99 YPC. In 2 years in Seattle, it was 3.95 YPC before Wilson alone. 4. Marshawn Lynch career YPC with Wilson in Seattle for 3 years is 4.65 YPC...a dramatic increase. 5. Seattle before Wilson...no playoffs in 4 years. 2 of those years with a tough D, Lynch and Pete. Seattle with Wilson, 3 playoffs, 2 Super Bowl Appearances and Super Bowl trophy for a team that rarely sniffs the Super Bowl. 6. Wilson has had the best or close to the best start in just about every major passing statistic for a QBs first 3 years in NFL history. 7. He has a playoff passer rating over 100 in 2 of the 3 years and one over 90. How can anyone deny the direct impact this kid has had on this team? Its so easy to say its the team around him, but if you look at what the same team around him did before him and after its undeniable the impact he has had. In fact, the opposite seems to be true...Lynch averaged UNDER 4 yards on his career as a running back until Wilson came to town and Lynch put together the best 3 year stretch of his career. I would pay that man if I was Seattle. Good stuff (the minor playoff error aside). If you don't put up huge regular season numbers I guess you can't be considered lite around these parts.
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