LB3 Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) I love RW, but even so, I wouldn't "pay the man"... Maybe 15 million a year. Show me he can carry a team, and then I'll be impressed until then, that team, like the 70's Steelers was a team, it wasn't about one position, even QB. Tim- Do you really believe he should be paid less than Ryan Tannehill? Edited June 29, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 It's not just that stat that makes him a great QB. I used it to correct the other poster's claim that he doesn't have to win games from behind. He has. There is nothing at all similar in the games of Tebow and Wilson, unfortunately for Tebow. pro football reference stats describes 4th Q comebacks as "offensive scoring drive in the 4th quarter with the team trailing by one score". 3 or 7 point s really makes no difference. It's a silly hair to split. There really aren't 10 QBs you would pick ahead of Wilson right now, are there? Why is an elite QB playing in front of an elite defense having to stage so many 4th quarter comebacks? His defense gives up 16 points per game.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Why is an elite QB playing in front of an elite defense having to stage so many 4th quarter comebacks? His defense gives up 16 points per game. Maybe because he has Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse and Paul Richardson and Luke Wilson and...
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) Why is an elite QB playing in front of an elite defense having to stage so many 4th quarter comebacks? His defense gives up 16 points per game. His elite defense gives up points late in games to put them behind I guess. It doesntreally matter, he can win from behind Edited June 29, 2015 by Mr. WEO
BarleyNY Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I am not usually a big stats guy, but QBR does a pretty good (but certainly not perfect) job of comparing QBs. Here is the 2014 QBs ranked by QBR: http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/stats/expanded Wilson ranks 12th. Without looking at this I'd have ranked him in the 10-12 area. After looking at it, there's maybe one QB ranked ahead of him that I'd rank Wilson above and not a single one below him I'd take over him. I'm looking at the 2014 season and projecting to 2015 only, not looking ahead or considering age and longevity. What really was surprising was how meh the QBs below Wilson are. There's the top 12, some young QBs that teams hope reach that level but haven't yet (and most won't) and then everybody else. Even if Wilson is the 12th best QB in the NFL he's going to get paid because no team want to trade him in for what's below that.
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Maybe because he has Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse and Paul Richardson and Luke Wilson and... Oh. Throwing to a bunch of nobodies never seemed to slow Brady down but I guess elite comes in many shades. His elite defense gives up points late in games to put them behind I guess. It doesntreally matter, he can win from behind That must be it.
The Big Cat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Maybe because he has Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse and Paul Richardson and Luke Wilson and... We're just going to ignore Lynch being in the top-4 each of the last three years in yards and TD's?
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Oh. Throwing to a bunch of nobodies never seemed to slow Brady down but I guess elite comes in many shades. That must be it. Wins don't.
The Big Cat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 His elite defense gives up points late in games to put them behind I guess. It doesntreally matter, he can win from behind That's actually categorically false. At least it was in 2014. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2014_opp_splits.htm
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Wins don't. The Tebow defense is alive and well. All he do is...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 We're just going to ignore Lynch being in the top-4 each of the last three years in yards and TD's? He was talking about why the Seahags don't score more points.
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 The Tebow defense is alive and well. All he do is... Come on...not at this level he didn't. When they need the points, they get them. That's what any team wants. This kid is hugely talented. These other posters can have stats chokers like Stafford and "Matty Ice" and even Rivers. I'll take Wilson.
The Big Cat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 He was talking about why the Seahags don't score more points. So the Bills only managed two more passing TD's in 2014 because they too have crappy receivers?
YoloinOhio Posted June 29, 2015 Author Posted June 29, 2015 He was talking about why the Seahags don't score more points.totally calling them the Seahags from now on. Thank you!
The Big Cat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Come on...not at this level he didn't. When they need the points, they get them. That's what any team wants. This kid is hugely talented. These other posters can have stats chokers like Stafford and "Matty Ice" and even Rivers. I'll take Wilson. If we subscribe to the notion that an NFL QB's primary objective is to pass, then I think Wilson has a ways to go before he's considered among the 'elite.' He's an exceptional game manager, I'll give you that. And I don't use that as a pejorative term, believe it or not.
Jauronimo Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 He was talking about why the Seahags don't score more points. Correct. So elite QB, best defense in the game, and one of the best backs in the game and they're still having to come from behind in the 4th and don't score many points. Something seems inconsistent here. You've laid it all on their WRs. I think maybe the first point is worth reconsidering.
Mr. WEO Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 If we subscribe to the notion that an NFL QB's primary objective is to pass, then I think Wilson has a ways to go before he's considered among the 'elite.' He's an exceptional game manager, I'll give you that. And I don't use that as a pejorative term, believe it or not. If you have a great D the QB is never going to be asked to throw 650 time a year. They give to Lynch and chew up the clock. You are making an inappropriate criticsm. Correct. So elite QB, best defense in the game, and one of the best backs in the game and they're still having to come from behind in the 4th and don't score many points. Something seems inconsistent here. You've laid it all on their WRs. I think maybe the first point is worth reconsidering. See above. He attempts fewer than 420 passes avg per year. He completes 64% of them. If they needed him to thorw as many as Luck or Brees or Ryan, he would have similar numbers. They don't need him to, so why penalize him for doing somehting they don't want him or need him to do?
The Big Cat Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 If you have a great D the QB is never going to be asked to throw 650 time a year. They give to Lynch and chew up the clock. You are making an inappropriate criticsm. See above. He attempts fewer than 420 passes avg per year. He completes 64% of them. If they needed him to thorw as many as Luck or Brees or Ryan, he would have similar numbers. They don't need him to, so why penalize him for doing somehting they don't want him or need him to do? Fine. He has a QBR of 12th. I'd say that's about right. Right outside top-10 in the league. I'm fine with that notion. Placing him in the top 5 ("elite"): crazy talk.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) IMO RW is very good at what he does, but he is far from elite. right now he's a Flacco type, good but not elite. Similar to but better than Dilfer. Strong run game and very good defense. Edited June 29, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 If you have a great D the QB is never going to be asked to throw 650 time a year. They give to Lynch and chew up the clock. You are making an inappropriate criticsm. See above. He attempts fewer than 420 passes avg per year. He completes 64% of them. If they needed him to thorw as many as Luck or Brees or Ryan, he would have similar numbers. They don't need him to, so why penalize him for doing somehting they don't want him or need him to do? in the evaluation of "can he do it," why check it off as a yes, until hes shown he can? we are all speculating on what happens when the roster weakens and he becomes the centerpiece instead of a facilitator for the offense. hes been excellent in the role hes had, but that doesnt mean hes a 12 win qb with a middle of the pack roster. its a question mark, and fair point of debate.
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