jletha Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 If I remember correctly they dont just assign ratings based on the eye-ball test and how much they like a guy. I think they go through every play of every game and do a +/- of good plays and bad plays for the whole year. Then they run a statistical evaluation for each player and compare it to the average player. I think the z-score of the individual player's +/- comapred to league average is what assigns the elite, very good, good etc designation. They very well may think Mario is better than Kyle but thats just not what the numbers they have show. It may mean they need to tweak their evaluation but I dont see it as a "They love Kyle" But maybe Im thinking of something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 That TE listing is pretty depressing. There's more grey (unknown) for our TE's than colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 If I remember correctly they dont just assign ratings based on the eye-ball test and how much they like a guy. I think they go through every play of every game and do a +/- of good plays and bad plays for the whole year. Then they run a statistical evaluation for each player and compare it to the average player. I think the z-score of the individual player's +/- comapred to league average is what assigns the elite, very good, good etc designation. They very well may think Mario is better than Kyle but thats just not what the numbers they have show. It may mean they need to tweak their evaluation but I dont see it as a "They love Kyle" But maybe Im thinking of something else. that is the process.... but is easily tainted if you like a guy. to assign "good play" or "bad play" you have to make a judgement call. if you give all the close ones to the guy you think is great, he quickly ends up being great on paper, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 If I remember correctly they dont just assign ratings based on the eye-ball test and how much they like a guy. I think they go through every play of every game and do a +/- of good plays and bad plays for the whole year. Then they run a statistical evaluation for each player and compare it to the average player. I think the z-score of the individual player's +/- comapred to league average is what assigns the elite, very good, good etc designation. They very well may think Mario is better than Kyle but thats just not what the numbers they have show. It may mean they need to tweak their evaluation but I dont see it as a "They love Kyle" But maybe Im thinking of something else. No you are correct that is their approach. However, it is like anything when does an objective assessment become a subjective assessment. If you start from the position of loving player A and there is a miscommunication on a play between player A and player B who are you more likely to mark down? I just don't believe it is nearly as objective as they would have you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No you are correct that is their approach. However, it is like anything when does an objective assessment become a subjective assessment. If you start from the position of loving player A and there is a miscommunication on a play between player A and player B who are you more likely to mark down? I just don't believe it is nearly as objective as they would have you believe. Yea thats true. I give people that handle too much credit often times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Mario should be elite over Kyle, or all three should be elite. But, I remember last year's chart and it looks like Gilmore, McKelvin and Bradham have all been upgraded from average, while Glenn has been downgraded to good. The roster looks better this year, plus we have free agents to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Mario Williams not elite??? Kyle Williams Elite? I think they got the two mixed I think Mario is elite and Kyle is very good CBF Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 I will be interested to see which DEs grade out as elite. Besides Watt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I will be interested to see which DEs grade out as elite. Besides Watt. Quinn, Wake and Campbell are my guesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Mario Williams not elite??? Kyle Williams Elite? I think they got the two mixed I think Mario is elite and Kyle is very good CBF They both should be elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Quinn, Wake and Campbell are my guesses. campbell is the only elite theyve give so far. wake and quinn not yet rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No you are correct that is their approach. However, it is like anything when does an objective assessment become a subjective assessment. If you start from the position of loving player A and there is a miscommunication on a play between player A and player B who are you more likely to mark down? I just don't believe it is nearly as objective as they would have you believe. You bring up a good point. That sort of individual breakdown just doesn't seem well suited to the game of football, where an individual player's performance never (or maybe very rarely) happens in isolation and shouldn't be assessed in isolation. Unlike say baseball, where the sabermetrics stuff makes sense. (Or golf!) It just mistranslates what is happening. kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 campbell is the only elite theyve give so far. wake and quinn not yet rated. Yeah, I just got a chance to look at the ones they've released. Campbell is a player they've always held in high esteem (and rightfully so) in the same way as KW, with that sort of under-the-radar dominance. Kind of surprised Julio didn't get a blue. Looks like they are trying to keep the blue chips to the top 50 regardless of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonechiller Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Actually not too bad, considering there are no draft picks or free agents that could be factored in, and will still be added. Definitely a couple of odd grades, and they are making assumptions on who will not be re-signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 they are making assumptions on who will not be re-signed. arent they only including players under contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 arent they only including players under contract? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You bring up a good point. That sort of individual breakdown just doesn't seem well suited to the game of football, where an individual player's performance never (or maybe very rarely) happens in isolation and shouldn't be assessed in isolation. Unlike say baseball, where the sabermetrics stuff makes sense. (Or golf!) It just mistranslates what is happening. kj What PFF does is interesting and somewhat useful. But you're right - it's very hard to do statistical breakdowns of individual NFL players, especially when you don't know the call/assignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Mario Williams not elite??? Kyle Williams Elite? I think they got the two mixed I think Mario is elite and Kyle is very good CBF PFF is obsessed with Kyle. Same thing last year. Mario should be elite over Kyle, or all three should be elite. But, I remember last year's chart and it looks like Gilmore, McKelvin and Bradham have all been upgraded from average, while Glenn has been downgraded to good. The roster looks better this year, plus we have free agents to sign. Well Rex's favorite defensive player is Kyle Williams so that might say something. He always went out of his way to talk about Kyle when he was on the Jets talking about out the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well Rex's favorite defensive player is Kyle Williams so that might say something. He always went out of his way to talk about Kyle when he was on the Jets talking about out the Bills. I think that we all agree that Kyle is good but Mario is certainly a better player. He's better against the run and a better pass rusher. Each are explosive off the snap. I would say that Kyle is very good, Mario and Dareus elite (the only 2 elite Bills at this point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well Rex's favorite defensive player is Kyle Williams so that might say something. He always went out of his way to talk about Kyle when he was on the Jets talking about out the Bills. everyone loves Kyle. Bellichik's favorite too. But, Mario is most definitely an elite DE in the league. So it looks weird that one is and one isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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