bobobonators Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'll be happy if EJ plays an entire season at this point. Lets start with that and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I only watched Carr play once or twice and wasn't convinced he was going to be a franchise QB one day. I agree with the OP - he doesn't look any more star ready to me than EJ. We all know the Kaep and Russell Wilson stories but I still remember Jim Plunkett finally emerging as a star QB when he was something like 30 years old. Nobody expected that. QBs develop at different rates and I'm not convinced at all that EJ won't be able to overcome the flaws in his game. Then again, I wouldn't count on EJ developing into a franchise QB either. I'd be hot to find an alternative if I were Doug Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 People are going to believe what they want to believe. Yolo made a very good post with facts. Yet, some chose to argue facts. Both are young Qbs. They are going to have ups and downs. We had a coach so well thought of, that after going 9-7, is now the o line coach in Jacksonville. Our offense sucked, even with a 10 year veteran "upgrade." There are people who want EJ to fail so they can be right. Our best hope is to hope the EJ has grown because his upside is better than any of these scrub journeymen out there (Locker is the exception for me). But this is like arguing politics. No one wants to concede anything. I like EJ because of his physical talent and mental makeup. I have no idea if he will make it. But I think Marrone was terrible and want him to get another shot. But he needs to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 People are going to believe what they want to believe. Yolo made a very good post with facts. Yet, some chose to argue facts. Both are young Qbs. They are going to have ups and downs. We had a coach so well thought of, that after going 9-7, is now the o line coach in Jacksonville. Our offense sucked, even with a 10 year veteran "upgrade." There are people who want EJ to fail so they can be right. Our best hope is to hope the EJ has grown because his upside is better than any of these scrub journeymen out there (Locker is the exception for me). But this is like arguing politics. No one wants to concede anything. I like EJ because of his physical talent and mental makeup. I have no idea if he will make it. But I think Marrone was terrible and want him to get another shot. But he needs to prove it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is it EJ's fault that Marrone told him to check down all the time? I think it's been well established that Marrone had a major hand in EJ's timid play. I think that EJ will have a huge chip on his shoulder this year. I'd be surprised if anyone beat him out in training camp. Manuel will want to prove that !@#$% idiot Marrone was the problem. If he doesn't show this attitude then you can stick a fork in him, he's done. His team mates will have no respect for him if he doesn't appear to be a man possessed to become the starter this year. You must have some inside info that no one else does. Is there anything else you can tell us about how Manuel was coached? Did Marrone tell him to be wildly inaccurate when he actually did attempt passes to wide receivers as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You must have some inside info that no one else does. Is there anything else you can tell us about how Manuel was coached? Did Marrone tell him to be wildly inaccurate when he actually did attempt passes to wide receivers as well? You're right. A lot of offensive players thrive in Hackett/ Marrone system. Jacksonville is lucky to have those 2 offensive masterminds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) You must have some inside info that no one else does. Is there anything else you can tell us about how Manuel was coached? Did Marrone tell him to be wildly inaccurate when he actually did attempt passes to wide receivers as well? It came from Hackett's mouth. He was unequivocal in his interview on what they were teaching EJ to do. As for "wildly inaccurate", his completion percentage doesn't warrant that description. He isn't Peyton Manning nor is he Tim Tebow. Manuel had the worst offensive coaching in the NFL last season. If I'm wrong please let me know who was worse. That doesn't mean EJ's the answer, it just means that we will finally have a true indication of Manuel's ability with Greg Roman. Doug Marrone tried to fake his way to the top and he was finally exposed as a buffoon. Don't be surprised if Manuel has a huge chip on his shoulder this year to prove to everyone he wasn't the problem after being given this "get out of jail" free card by Marrone. Edited February 18, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) It came from Hackett's mouth. He was unequivocal in his interview on what they were teaching EJ to do. As for "wildly inaccurate", his completion percentage doesn't warrant that description. He isn't Peyton Manning nor is he Tim Tebow. Manuel had the worst offensive coaching in the NFL last season. If I'm wrong please let me know who was worse. That doesn't mean EJ's the answer, it just means that we will finally have a true indication of Manuel's ability with Greg Roman. Doug Marrone tried to fake his way to the top and he was finally exposed as a buffoon. Don't be surpassed if Manuel has a huge chip on his shoulder this year to prove to everyone he wasn't the problem after being given this "get out of jail" free card by Marrone. I would not disagree that Marrone/Hackett probably favored a more conservative approach overall but I would be shocked if Hackett said in an interview that he encouraged Manuel to check down "all the time." I mean, if that was the case, why would they bench him if he was doing exactly what they told him? EJ Manuel is exactly like an ex fling. As time goes by you forget about the bad and remember the good. When he gets his reps this offseason everyone will remember why we broke up with him. He was so incredibly bad against San Diego and Houston- I just hope everyone can remember that. They are going to bring in a middling free agent that will trigger a collective "NOOOOO!!!!" on here, like a Colt McCoy or someone, and that free agent is going to win the job from Manuel with ease. And then they probably won't be that good either and everyone will clamor for Manuel halfway through the season. Edited February 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 >>>>>People are going to believe what they want to believe. Yolo made a very good post with facts. Yet, some chose to argue facts. Both are young Qbs. They are going to have ups and downs. We had a coach so well thought of, that after going 9-7, is now the o line coach in Jacksonville. Our offense sucked, even with a 10 year veteran "upgrade." There are people who want EJ to fail so they can be right. Our best hope is to hope the EJ has grown because his upside is better than any of these scrub journeymen out there (Locker is the exception for me). But this is like arguing politics. No one wants to concede anything. I like EJ because of his physical talent and mental makeup. I have no idea if he will make it. But I think Marrone was terrible and want him to get another shot. But he needs to prove it.<<<<< With all due respect, I don't understand this post. Marrone (who I NEVER wanted btw) is now an OL assistant? Well, when Jauron (a coach who you seemed to actually admire) left, he was a defensive backs assistant. Is there a difference? I want EJ to do well so I can be proven WRONG! The thing is, I see a running quarterback who cannot run, a tall qb who gets his passes batted down, and a strong armed qb who throws a mile off target. These are not good signs my friend. So yeah, I do hope that we bring in some serious competition. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I would not disagree that Marrone/Hackett probably favored a more conservative approach overall but I would be shocked if Hackett said in an interview that he encouraged Manuel to check down "all the time." I mean, if that was the case, why would they bench him if he was doing exactly what they told him? EJ Manuel is exactly like an ex fling. As time goes by you forget about the bad and remember the good. When he gets his reps this offseason everyone will remember why we broke up with him. He was so incredibly bad against San Diego and Houston- I just hope everyone can remember that. They are going to bring in a middling free agent that will trigger a collective "NOOOOO!!!!" on here, like a Colt McCoy or someone, and that free agent is going to win the job from Manuel with ease. And then they probably won't be that good either and everyone will clamor for Manuel halfway through the season. The argumnent could be made that you and the EJ haters have it the other way. You only remember the mistakes. You overstate the negatives and you don't recall any of the positives. Take away the one pass that Watt made an excellent play on and we win that game and EJ probably never gets benched in the first place. I'm interested to see what he does with a fresh start and a competent coaching staff. He's not a rookie anymore. No excuses. He needs to go out and win the job and play well. That being said, he will have some absolutely horrendous games, all QBs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The argumnent could be made that you and the EJ haters have it the other way. You only remember the mistakes. You overstate the negatives and you don't recall any of the positives. Take away the one pass that Watt made an excellent play on and we win that game and EJ probably never gets benched in the first place. I'm interested to see what he does with a fresh start and a competent coaching staff. He's not a rookie anymore. No excuses. He needs to go out and win the job and play well. That being said, he will have some absolutely horrendous games, all QBs do. The Watt play wasn't even close to the worst play he made in that game. In fact, I would excuse that play altogether. And furthermore, I would venture to guess that even if they win that game Marrone switches to Orton the following week. He would've had to at least consider it. Robert Woods was targeted 12 times and ended up with 3 catches for 17 yards. I have never witnessed receivers so visibly frustrated with their quarterback's complete and utter inability to get them the football. Manuel looked serviceable the first two games in 2014 and a few games in 2013 I suppose. He was decent against Carolina. Everyone loves to point to his numbers in the Jets game but he wasn't incredibly sharp. And that's my issue with Manuel- that not once have I seen him flash franchise QB potential. I mean, yes after week 2 against Carolina in 2013, I thought he was going to be the guy. Everyone did. But has he progressed an inch since then?? He regressed wildly in training camp and the preseason last year. Maybe a new coaching staff can rescue him, I don't know. Do you wanna bet he is not the Bills starter by the end of 2015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The Watt play wasn't even close to the worst play he made in that game. In fact, I would excuse that play altogether. And furthermore, I would venture to guess that even if they win that game Marrone switches to Orton the following week. He would've had to at least consider it. Robert Woods was targeted 12 times and ended up with 3 catches for 17 yards. I have never witnessed receivers so visibly frustrated with their quarterback's complete and utter inability to get them the football. Manuel looked serviceable the first two games in 2014 and a few games in 2013 I suppose. He was decent against Carolina. Everyone loves to point to his numbers in the Jets game but he wasn't incredibly sharp. And that's my issue with Manuel- that not once have I seen him flash franchise QB potential. I mean, yes after week 2 against Carolina in 2013, I thought he was going to be the guy. Everyone did. But has he progressed an inch since then?? He regressed wildly in training camp and the preseason last year. Maybe a new coaching staff can rescue him, I don't know. Do you wanna bet he is not the Bills starter by the end of 2015? You might be right. You might not. I've seen good things from EJ and I believe he can be good just as much as I believe Derek Carr can. Would I bet that he is the starter by the end of the year? Depends on a lot of factors. Too early for me to make that bet. Check back with me in training camp when I know what other QBs are here to compete with him for the job. As of right now, I think odds are very high that he will be the starter on Wk1. But that certainly could change if another legit starter is acquired or if EJ is injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I would not disagree that Marrone/Hackett probably favored a more conservative approach overall but I would be shocked if Hackett said in an interview that he encouraged Manuel to check down "all the time." I mean, if that was the case, why would they bench him if he was doing exactly what they told him? EJ Manuel is exactly like an ex fling. As time goes by you forget about the bad and remember the good. When he gets his reps this offseason everyone will remember why we broke up with him. He was so incredibly bad against San Diego and Houston- I just hope everyone can remember that. They are going to bring in a middling free agent that will trigger a collective "NOOOOO!!!!" on here, like a Colt McCoy or someone, and that free agent is going to win the job from Manuel with ease. And then they probably won't be that good either and everyone will clamor for Manuel halfway through the season. 2:27... http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Nathaniel-Hackett-on-OLine-and-the-Red-Zone/32e57e61-a6bd-442d-b9f2-924b9fd287ce He was downright gleeful in telling you that the Bills would take what the defense gives us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 2:27... http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Nathaniel-Hackett-on-OLine-and-the-Red-Zone/32e57e61-a6bd-442d-b9f2-924b9fd287ce He was downright gleeful in telling you that the Bills would take what the defense gives us. Ehh. I think that was more of a coach sticking up for his QB than anything. One thing we could probably agree on- I had never heard Hackett talk before. He sounds like such a douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I hope I'm wrong because I want EJ and this team to succeed. However, accuracy cannot be taught. Personally I'm not extremely impressed with Carr either, but he has shown the ability to make legit NFL throws, and be accurate. That's why people view Carr differently than Manuel. Has everyone forgotten how close Manuel came to killing our recievers before he was benched? His shining moment was the game winning drive against Carolina his rookie year. That drive was all check downs, and the brillance of Fred Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I hope I'm wrong because I want EJ and this team to succeed. However, accuracy cannot be taught. Personally I'm not extremely impressed with Carr either, but he has shown the ability to make legit NFL throws, and be accurate. That's why people view Carr differently than Manuel. Has everyone forgotten how close Manuel came to killing our recievers before he was benched? His shining moment was the game winning drive against Carolina his rookie year. That drive was all check downs, and the brillance of Fred Jackson.1) how many Carr games did you watch? You definitely missed the St. Louis game. 2) did you watch the SB? Brady completely like one pass that was over 5 yards in air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) I hope I'm wrong because I want EJ and this team to succeed. However, accuracy cannot be taught. Personally I'm not extremely impressed with Carr either, but he has shown the ability to make legit NFL throws, and be accurate. That's why people view Carr differently than Manuel. Has everyone forgotten how close Manuel came to killing our recievers before he was benched? His shining moment was the game winning drive against Carolina his rookie year. That drive was all check downs, and the brillance of Fred Jackson. 58.1% over the season Games 1-8: 60.5% Games 9-16: 55.7% Throws < 10 yards: 39.5% Edited February 18, 2015 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 58.1% over the season Games 1-8: 60.5% Games 9-16: 55.7% Throws < 10 yards - 39.5% Stupid facts. Carr is not on the bills. Thus, his ceiling is higher. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Stupid facts. Carr is not on the bills. Thus, his ceiling is higher. Duh. Between this and the Bradford discussion, it's quite clear that there is bias in terms of who is allowed to develop, and who is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Between this and the Bradford discussion, it's quite clear that there is bias in terms of who is allowed to develop, and who is not. Exactly and let's beclear. I don't think neither of us are guaranteeing anything with EJ. But it's funny how fans are much more patience and make excuses for other teams' players than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts