BillsVet Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Is it EJ's fault that Marrone told him to check down all the time? I think it's been well established that Marrone had a major hand in EJ's timid play. I think that EJ will have a huge chip on his shoulder this year. I'd be surprised if anyone beat him out in training camp. Manuel will want to prove that !@#$% idiot Marrone was the problem. If he doesn't show this attitude then you can stick a fork in him, he's done. His team mates will have no respect for him if he doesn't appear to be a man possessed to become the starter this year. The coach told EJ to check down? That's priceless. EJ checked down because he was tentative and wouldn't throw the ball down-field, not because the conveniently departed Marrone and Hackett told him to repeatedly throw short passes. It's why EJ admitted after his benching that he would, if given the opportunity, "cut it loose." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/10/02/bills-notebook-manuel-remains-optimistic-through-benching/ During the off-season, some people forget just how bad Manuel was during the regular season. He doesn't read defenses well, can't get through his reads, and when he does, the pass more often than not is errant. The tape doesn't lie in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Respectfully disagree. There's only so many reps to go around. And there's only 16 precious games per season. there seemed to be a feeling early last season that EJ should be given games until, basically, we were out of playoff contention. "He's only had X games, and so-and-so had X+Y games, so EJ needs more before we really know for sure." But to me, if he isnt earning playing time in practice, then get him out of the way. Be patient? okay Try to squeeze him reps? okay Get him an off-season QB whisperer? sure Force him into the starting role, because starting games is the only way he'll learn? NO Force him into the starting role, because we need to know a.s.a.p. if he can play? NO I don't know if we completely disagree. I am saying you gotta do everything you can to see if the guy can be your solution... You're saying sure as long as it doesn't cost the team wins assuming you have a better option. We're not so different you and I.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I would argue that bad coaching can also get inside of a young player's head to the extent that "it" has a hard time overcoming poor instruction. I'm not suggesting that EJ definitely has "it," but there were a few times in the first season when it seemed that a game was on the line and he stopped thinking, and was able to play a more instinctual game. The Pats* game in his first start comes to mind. OT in the Atlanta game comes to mind. There were others. It was mentioned upthread by KD about Rex letting Geno play to see what he had. Unfortunately for Rex, Geno is a brick, and he proved that he is a turnover machine that has a hard time thinking about the reprecussions of blindly pulling the trigger, but I would have loved to see EJ in a similar situation where taking care of the ball was not the first, second, third, and fourth priority that appeared to be drilled into his head. IMO, Marrone completely missed the point of taking chances on offense when you have a defense that can bail you out if you turn the ball over. He should have tried harder to develop a young QB with a defense like that to fall back on, but I suspect in the back of his mind he had one foot out the door the second the prospect of the ownership change entered the picture. Unfortunately, his self-serving approach leaves the franchise in the same spot it was at the beginning of last season, with a playoff caliber roster that is now 1 year older and a big unanswered question at QB. Yes who cares if the 11 guys on defense giving an All-Star effort have to live with constant turnovers and losses. They just can't wait to be variables in some experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well, I think we have to consider who he was throwing to as well. Has E.J. ever had a polished WR that ran precise routes and who could be counted on to be at the spot the QB was throwing to? IMO, Stevie was released largely because E.J could never count on him to run the same route twice. The other wideouts were either rookies or had limited experience and may not have been consistently running their routes as designed either. I'm curious to see E.J. perform with a more veteran group this year and get a better read on whether the accuracy issues are still as prevalent... I think Stevie was traded because they could get something for him and they didn't want to risk any negative attitudes around Watkins & Woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Been saying this for a long time about QBs. Every time I see a post about Manning's stats his first season, blah blah. I'm sure when I was 3 years old, my 40 time was faster than Chris Johnson's after 3 years. All I needed was more time. Better coaching. Fan support. Its about quarterbacking. Its about doing the things a qb must do. And showing promise. You can be patient with a guy who shows he can do these things. But IMHO, if a guy doesnt have it in him, its next to impossible to teach it. You can teach him to increase his completion percentage (with dumpoffs or a 1st read offense), you can teach him to avoid sacks, but progressions, accuracy, anticipation, tight windows, pocket awareness, etc., I dont think giving a guy X-number of additional games is going to suddenly reveal that he now has "it" What a load of crap. He sure looked like he had "it" week two when he was rookie of the week threw for nearly 300 yards and led a game winning drive... He sure didn't vs Tampa, great vs Jets the second time and jaxsonville. Nobody was willing to declare Flacco, or Eli franchise QBs multple starting seasons into their career. There is no such thing as an "it" factor when it comes to QBs, no concensus on how to define "it" or recognize "it" and certainly no timetable on when you would start to see "it". Tom Brady, under discussion as the all time best NFL qb ever, in history, couldn't hold a starting job in COLLEGE!?!? How'd they miss "it"? Did Jamarcus have "it" then lose "it" like Leif? How about Brees? He had his "it" surgically grafted on in his shoulder procedure, right? Russell Wilson does he have "it" or not? that Green Bay game was a look more like shhh"it" than "it"... The "it" myth.... An argument for those who don't know how. The end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 One can also argue that EJ had a better overall offensive unit to work with than Carr does. Fred Jackson/CJ Spiller/Stevie Johnson/Chandler/Robert Woods last year are better than what Carr had this year. And EJ had Watkins this year to replace Stevie and regressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) One can also argue that EJ had a better overall offensive unit to work with than Carr does. Fred Jackson/CJ Spiller/Stevie Johnson/Chandler/Robert Woods last year are better than what Carr had this year. And EJ had Watkins this year to replace Stevie and regressed.meh, CJ was hurt last year and Stevie missed a bunch of games. Chandler was coming off ACL surgery and had several drops EJ put right in the numbers. Chandler and Stevie both fumbled the ATL game away that EJ played well enough to win. EJ's receivers in his best game as a rookie featured Goodwin, Graham and Hogan as both Stevie and Woods were out. I would say its a push. Neither had superstar weapons. EJ got a lot out of a Woods as a rookie, whereas Thad could never even find him. As for this year, he did regress. But he also was the QB when Sammy put up 100+ against one of the top CBs in the league v. Miami. Edited February 17, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 meh, CJ was hurt last year and Stevie missed a bunch of games. Chandler was coming off ACL surgery and had several drops EJ put right in the numbers. Chandler and Stevie both fumbled the ATL game away that EJ played well enough to win. EJ's receivers in his best game as a rookie featured Goodwin, Graham and Hogan as both Stevie and Woods were out. I would say its a push. Neither had superstar weapons. EJ got a lot out of a Woods as a rookie, whereas Thad could never even find him. As for this year, he did regress. But he also was the QB when Sammy put up 100+ against one of the top CBs in the league v. Miami. EJ's receivers had drops! Clearly, Derek Carr never dealt with those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) EJ's receivers had drops! Clearly, Derek Carr never dealt with those!Pretty sure I never said that. But whatev. The poster said this - "One can also argue that EJ had a better overall offensive unit to work with than Carr does" Every team has drops. But Chandler wasn't good in 2013 so let's not pretend he was. Edited February 17, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Pretty sure I never said that. But whatev. The poster said this - "One can also argue that EJ had a better overall offensive unit to work with than Carr does" Every team has drops. But Chandler wasn't good in 2013 so let's not pretend he was. It just makes me laugh. "I wouldn't say EJ had a better overall offensive unit...Chandler dropped a couple passes." Just funny stuff. As if a Chandler drop means that the 2013 Bills offensive unit (2nd in rushing, yada yada) is anywhere close to the 2014 Raiders. Gun to your head, SJ13 and Woods vs. James Jones and Denarius Moore. Pretty cut and dried. And another funny one. SJ13 got hurt. Not like the Raiders RB's all went on IR after week two. Edited February 17, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 It just makes me laugh. "I wouldn't say EJ had a better overall offensive unit...Chandler dropped a couple passes." Just funny stuff. As if a Chandler drop means that the 2013 Bills offensive unit (2nd in rushing, yada yada) is anywhere close to the 2014 Raiders. Gun to your head, SJ13 and Woods vs. James Jones and Denarius Moore. Pretty cut and dried. And another funny one. SJ13 got hurt. Not like the Raiders RB's all went on IR after week two. super hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think Stevie was traded because they could get something for him and they didn't want to risk any negative attitudes around Watkins & Woods. His freelancing was a major problem as well. Is it any wonder he had so much success against Revis? Darrelle was most likely watching E.J.'s eyes and Stevie was never where he was supposed to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 super hilarious! I suppose you could say EJ had bad coaches. I mean, Tony Sparano is much better than Marrone, am I right! Love that Sparano man. Wildcat never dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 I suppose you could say EJ had bad coaches. I mean, Tony Sparano is much better than Marrone, am I right! Love that Sparano man. Wildcat never dies.im not sure what you are trying to argue. I simply stated that IMO neither QB had a great supporting cast. I didn't say Carr's was good or his coach was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 im not sure what you are trying to argue. I simply stated that IMO neither QB had a great supporting cast. I didn't say Carr's was good or his coach was good. You argued it was a push. Sorry, I just think that's so insanely biased and incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 You argued it was a push. Sorry, I just think that's so insanely biased and incorrect."I would say its a push" signals it is my opinion. I am not arguing anything. Just stating an opinion. Since when is an "opinion" incorrect? When it isn't the same as yours. I'm sure some disagree, that's fine. Not going to tell those people they are wrong. I was just giving my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Funny JP Losman was in the same win now situation. Why they both were benched. Edited February 17, 2015 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 "I would say its a push" signals it is my opinion. I am not arguing anything. Just stating an opinion. Since when is an "opinion" incorrect? When it isn't the same as yours. I'm sure some disagree, that's fine. Not going to tell those people they are wrong. I was just giving my thoughts. You told the person you responded to that your opinion was that he was wrong. "I think EJ had a better cast" "I think it was a push" = "I think EJ had a better cast" "I think you're wrong" I wasn't trying to be rude, the way you worded those lines in that post just sounded funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Carr - decisive leader, made the best of what he had to work with in Oakland, student of the game, got better as year went on, strong arm and can throw on the run EJ Edited February 17, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Might also explain why Trent Edwards was seen as our franchise QB After a mediocre rookie year. Expectations were much lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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