MDH Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 That's only if you look at the issue in a vacuum. Having the best QB on the roster avoid injury is fine. EJ sacrificed his body for a little more of a positive play and it set this franchise back a year, if not more. Listen, I love guys who are tough as nails and put their bodies on the line for the team. I do. But it's not the end-all be-all. Also, And let's not forget the countless plays in which Orton just crumbled in the pocket and pretty much just fell down without standing tall and firing. Sure, you can point to a few times where he took a shot, but again, his positive plays didn't outweigh his negative, which is why he gets (rightfully) blasted. Countless? Really? I'd like you to show me a game where Orton's negative plays outweighed his positives. There may be one, but no more than that. The guy was at the helm for 9 wins, don't forget that. Just because he threw 3 balls in the dirt doesn't negate his 300 yards and 20 other completions. Perhaps I didn't phrase that as well as I should have. I mentioned at the beginning of the post about big plays (positive and negative), that's what I was referring to in that sentence, not literally every single positive or negative play. Orton had way to many easy sacks, inaccurate throws on 3rd down or simply checking down to a back on 3rd downs to be able to keep drives going. Those are drive killing plays and are big negatives over the course of a game. Orton's positives were never able to outweigh those (as evidenced by the teams horrid offensive production.) Now, I don't lay it all on Orton's feet as the OL didn't help much but nobody gave EJ that excuse and he is significantly less experienced.
FireChan Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Pretend you have not seen me post this a dozen times EJ detractors pleas create your own "EJ Sucks" thread ignoring the following dozen troll posts on this There is no EJ detractors thread. Why are you trying to involve EJ? Furthermore, you post your "EJ detractors, please post in your EJ sucks thread," in every topic about other QB's. Which is a little foolish, because any topic about bringing in a player will invariably discuss who we have at that same position, right? I mean, if we posted a topic on a free agent DE candidate, wouldn't he be compared to Hughes? You don't even have to respond to it, you can just say things like, "I don't see Glennon being better than EJ," and leave it at that. Perhaps I didn't phrase that as well as I should have. I mentioned at the beginning of the post about big plays (positive and negative), that's what I was referring to in that sentence, not literally every single positive or negative play. Orton had way to many easy sacks, inaccurate throws on 3rd down or simply checking down to a back on 3rd downs to be able to keep drives going. Those are drive killing plays and are big negatives over the course of a game. Orton's positives were never able to outweigh those (as evidenced by the teams horrid offensive production.) Now, I don't lay it all on Orton's feet as the OL didn't help much but nobody gave EJ that excuse and he is significantly less experienced. Ah, okay. Yeah, I'd agree that Orton definitely had too many "big" bad plays or at least, not enough good ones. I just think that third down slide was a little overstated, IMO. It seemed like the turning point for a lot of folks, and I didn't think it was that big of a deal.
keepthefaith Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I believe Orton will be on an NFL roster before the 2015 season ends.
Captain Hindsight Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I believe Orton will be on an NFL roster before the 2015 season ends. Hopefully not ours
Ted William's frozen head Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Does anyone know when Orton plans on filing his retirement papers with the NFL? The NFL website is still showing him as an Active player. The reason I ask is due to the cap implications of when he files those papers. If he files before the June 1st deadline we can just write him off with no ramifactions, I believe if he does it after June 1st, there will be a cap hit. http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills Orton will change his mind about retirement when training camp ends........
billsfan1959 Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Countless? Really? I'd like you to show me a game where Orton's negative plays outweighed his positives. There may be one, but no more than that. The guy was at the helm for 9 wins, don't forget that. Just because he threw 3 balls in the dirt doesn't negate his 300 yards and 20 other completions. According to PFF, Orton's negative plays outweighed his positive plays in 8 out of 12 games....
4BillsintheBurgh Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I'm really hoping we play one qb the first half of the year and then a second qb for the rest. That way opposing defenses will not have enough tape/time to fully stop either one. We need to think out of the box in order to overcome our deficit and that's one way to do it.
rumblefish Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 can you say Jacksonville, the three amigos will be reunited, and everyone lives happily ever after, the end
BobbyC81 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 On key conversions? It wasn't during the final two minutes. And yes, he has. In fact, sometimes, other than even bothering to try to run for it, he just chucks it into the dirt or out of bounds. Is that preferable? Ugh! I just flashed back to plays we saw made by both Rob Johnson and Trent Edwards: behind late in the 4th quarter- probably last possession, 4th down, they're rushed out of the pocket and they run out of bounds way short of a 1st down. Game over! Aaarrgghh!
Ted William's frozen head Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 According to PFF, Orton's negative plays outweighed his positive plays in 8 out of 12 games.... Pull up the stats for EJ.
Bills1218 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Not appreciating what Orton brought to the table is such a classic Bills fan move. The dude has a cannon for an arm, is light years ahead of EJ, and took us to our first winning season in a decade. He's not a franchise QB for the next 10 years, sure. But he's easily the best QB we've had since Bledsoe, and he is way better than any of the options we have on our roster right now, available in the draft, or attainable through a trade/free agency.
QB Bills Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I hate that EJ is so awful that I actually was ecstatic when they named Orton the starter. And sadly I would feel the same if it happened again.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I hate that EJ is so awful that I actually was ecstatic when they named Orton the starter. And sadly I would feel the same if it happened again. Orton in his 10th year had a .3 better qbr than Manuel did in his rookie year. What an upgrade. Many media and Miami fans wanted Tannehill benched after the Bills game. The coaches stuck with him and he improved. We should have done the same with EJ. There is no upside with Orton. Why Bills fans defend this average on his best days Orton is beyond me. He basically used us for $5 million, tried not to get hurt, & now we go into another offseason not knowing about the qb position. You find your qb through the draft. The. You play him through ups and downs and don't bench him for journeyman scrubs. Then you evaluate after 2 years. Not 14 starts. Orton, and more so Marrone, set this franchise back. And now both are gone. What a waste of a great defense.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Not appreciating what Orton brought to the table is such a classic Bills fan move. The dude has a cannon for an arm, is light years ahead of EJ, and took us to our first winning season in a decade. He's not a franchise QB for the next 10 years, sure. But he's easily the best QB we've had since Bledsoe, and he is way better than any of the options we have on our roster right now, available in the draft, or attainable through a trade/free agency. Lol at cannon arm. Guess he was light on the gunpowder at the end of the Chiefs game. Dolphins, Broncos, Raiders games were laughable. It would be a nightmare to watch Orton continue his career. Edited February 13, 2015 by Ryan L Billz
QCity Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Then you evaluate after 2 years. Not 14 starts. Orton, and more so Marrone, set this franchise back. And now both are gone. What a waste of a great defense. Drafting EJ Manuel is what set this franchise back. Not Marrone. Not Hackett. Not Orton. As a matter of fact, the only reason Orton was even a member of this team is because we drafted EJ Manuel. And please stop this "only 14 games" crap. I'm so sick of the EJ Dreamers pretending that Manuel is still this unknown quantity that was never given a fair chance. He's been here over two years now -- that's two OTAs, two training camps, two preseasons, and two season openers where he was the starting QB. They know what they have.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Drafting EJ Manuel is what set this franchise back. Not Marrone. Not Hackett. Not Orton. As a matter of fact, the only reason Orton was even a member of this team is because we drafted EJ Manuel. And please stop this "only 14 games" crap. I'm so sick of the EJ Dreamers pretending that Manuel is still this unknown quantity that was never given a fair chance. He's been here over two years now -- that's two OTAs, two training camps, two preseasons, and two season openers where he was the starting QB. They know what they have. Great point. Every qb was great after 2 years. Especially with elite offensive coaches like Nate Hackett and Doug Marrone. A 10 year vet had the same qbr as a EJ did as a rookie. Sorry, I'm listening to Fans with the Skip Bayless mentality or judging offensive players who played in a crappy system for 2 years. If Roman says guys can't play, it's one thing. But forgive me for not trusting Jags assistant coaches.
Rob's House Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I find it nothing short of hilarious that the biggest EJ homers on this board are ripping Orton to shreds for sliding short of the first down marker after defending EJ who did the exact same thing last year.
FireChan Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Great point. Every qb was great after 2 years. Especially with elite offensive coaches like Nate Hackett and Doug Marrone. A 10 year vet had the same qbr as a EJ did as a rookie. Sorry, I'm listening to Fans with the Skip Bayless mentality or judging offensive players who played in a crappy system for 2 years. If Roman says guys can't play, it's one thing. But forgive me for not trusting Jags assistant coaches. So only one more year left of this? I can't wait. Edited February 13, 2015 by FireChan
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Hopefully not ours :thumbsup: According to PFF, Orton's negative plays outweighed his positive plays in 8 out of 12 games.... ^This Marrone is GONE, he was the reason Orton was starter. Maroon up from day 1 by forcing a ROOKIE into a fast paced offense then canning it the next season. WHY didn't he keep it in play if the plan was sooo brilliant? Moron bailed too fast on EJ just like he bailed on the team after the Putz game. Edited February 13, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I find it nothing short of hilarious that the biggest EJ homers on this board are ripping Orton to shreds for sliding short of the first down marker after defending EJ who did the exact same thing last year.Forgive me for expecting a bit more of our veteran QB who "gives us the best chance at winning" and the playoffs, than from a rookie.
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