Thrivefourfive Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 We are desperate to find an alternative to EJ. We feel McCown is an upgrade to Orton. Roman and him are good friends. Look for this to be completed tomorrow AM, also look for EJ to be cut two days after FA opens. Imo Please tell me that's only part of the plan! McCown maybe an upgrade to Orton, but there's not much difference between the two. I have a hard time liking anything that McCown bring in. He's 36 and had a good half season. And his look just does not scream, "BUFFALO!!" to me.
xsoldier54 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Is this getting done? What's the hold up? Been reading that they are working on an agreement for two days. Doesn't seem like it should take that long.
Lurker Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) but this is the more typical reason: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9784092/josh-freeman-sign-minnesota-vikings. "Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik contacted all 31 other teams in an attempt to trade Freeman, sources told ESPN.com on Thursday, but were unable to find a taker." With the change in rookie contracts, that problem might not be as difficult a lift as the examples you provided. Much of the problem in the past examples was driven by high contract $$$ for midling performance. EJs contract isn't that huge that some team might want to take a chance and kick the tires... Freeman contract: 5-years, $36 million http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4367944 Manuel contract: 4-years, $8.9 million http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/e.j.-manuel/ Edited February 27, 2015 by Lurker
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Personally, I don't think that EJ will ever be a franchise QB. His slow eyes and lack of accuracy make me feel this way. Also, this team isn't in position to develop a QB. They are a 9 win team with bad QB play. With that being said, releasing him is a terrible idea (especially for McCown). If they traded him as a part of a package to get a starter I would be okay but Locker, McCown and a QB in this draft isn't exciting to me. EJ should be given a chance with this regime. you and your 6 buddies verses myself and a score of others disagree. I'll take the majority vote. With the change in rookie contracts, that problem might not be as difficult a lift as the examples you provided. Much of the problem in the past examples was driven by high contract $$$ for midling performance. EJs contract isn't that huge that some team might want to take a chance and kick the tires... Freeman contract: 5-years, $36 million http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4367944 Manuel contract: 4-years, $8.9 million http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/e.j.-manuel/ This year EJ Manuel salary - $1,212,755 you can't use the same source for both players? freeman as in Josh? CURRENT Contract 1 yr(s) / $795,000 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/josh-freeman/ Edited February 27, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
dave mcbride Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) With the change in rookie contracts, that problem might not be as difficult a lift as the examples you provided. Much of the problem in the past examples was driven by high contract $$$ for midling performance. EJs contract isn't that huge that some team might want to take a chance and kick the tires... Freeman contract: 5-years, $36 million http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4367944 Manuel contract: 4-years, $8.9 million http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/e.j.-manuel/ I'll believe it when I see it. Also, are you factoring in the bonus to Freeman's contract? The team trading for him isn't on the hook for that at all. Outside of Gabbert, no bust-ish QB has been traded in recent years as far as I know. There's a reason for that - unless I'm forgetting someone, no high-pick bust-ish qb has performed well elsewhere in the last 15 years. Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Kyle Boller, David Carr, Jason Campbell, etc. remained the same players they were after moving to new teams. It's approaching iron-law territory. Edited February 27, 2015 by dave mcbride
Lurker Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) no high-pick bust-ish qb has performed well elsewhere in the last 15 years. Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Kyle Boller, David Carr, Jason Campbell, etc. remained the same players they were after moving to new teams. It's approaching iron-law territory. How may of those guys only played 15 games, however? What's becoming an iron-law is the perception of E.J. as a bust after less than one full year of playing time. I can't think of another QB outside of Johnny Football that has been given up on in so limited a time frame. It's a bit shocking, in fact... Edited February 27, 2015 by Lurker
dave mcbride Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) How may of those guys only played 15 games, however? What's becoming an iron-law is the perception of E.J. as a bust after less than one full year of playing time. I can't think of another QB outside of Johnny Football that has been given up on in so limited a time frame. It's a bit shocking, in fact... It's more than 15 games - it's practice, camp, preseason, etc., plus preconceptions teams had about a player from his college days. Gabbert started 27 and Brandon Weeden started 20. They didn't get better over time. In fact, they got worse. Sometimes you can just tell. Whether that's fair to EJ or not, I don't know, but there have been enough guys who failed (i.e., Christian Ponder) that teams may be more willing to cut bait more quickly now than ever. Ryan and Roman may in fact think he's a bad QB; I simply don't know. But if they do, why should they keep him? Again, unlike most teams, the Bills regime is almost entirely new, starting with the owner. The Pegulas have no investment in EJ. Edited February 27, 2015 by dave mcbride
Perk71 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Just because people don't agree with this information doesn't make it false. Leroi keep doing what you're doing. Thanks for the info.
RyanC883 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I'm fine w/ McCown, only if the Bills also bring in either Locker or Sanchez. I see McCown as the backup. EJ will be 3rd string this year or cut likely. The reason cutting EJ could make sense is if Whaley and Rex never saw him as a quality QB coming out of college, have seen him play in the NFL, and want to move on with a new rookie behind (hopefully) two vets. And keep up the good work Leroi. Edited February 27, 2015 by RyanC883
Maury Ballstein Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Just because people don't agree with this information doesn't make it false. Leroi keep doing what you're doing. Thanks for the info. Plus 1
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 you and your 6 buddies verses myself and a score of others disagree. I'll take the majority vote.First of all you are delusional if you think that only 7 people on this message board think that EJ can't play. I have given many reasons why after defending him early. You don't get more accurate. You can build arm strength, understanding of an offense etc, but I don't know how you get more accurate or go through progressions faster. He has been a QB his whole life!! Obviously the coaching staff agrees with me or they wouldn't be trying so hard to upgrade. I like the guy but don't think that he is a franchise guy. Like I said though I would keep him.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) then I guess I am delusional. me and scores of others. The EJ detractors are in the minority. I am sorry if that bothers you, If you want proof who the majority is count up the posters responses Predict the starting quarterback for week 1.. Edited February 27, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
The Wiz Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 It's more than 15 games - it's practice, camp, preseason, etc., plus preconceptions teams had about a player from his college days. Gabbert started 27 and Brandon Weeden started 20. They didn't get better over time. In fact, they got worse. Sometimes you can just tell. Whether that's fair to EJ or not, I don't know, but there have been enough guys who failed (i.e., Christian Ponder) that teams may be more willing to cut bait more quickly now than ever. Ryan and Roman may in fact think he's a bad QB; I simply don't know. But if they do, why should they keep him? Again, unlike most teams, the Bills regime is almost entirely new, starting with the owner. The Pegulas have no investment in EJ. Assuming Rex/Roman have already watch all of the 15 games, practice, camp, preseason, etc. film, it could very well be they have only seen the film of the 15 games he has played. I would love to see how much attention was given to EJ in practices by Marrone and Hackett just to satisfy my curiosity.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Assuming Rex/Roman have already watch all of the 15 games, practice, camp, preseason, etc. film, it could very well be they have only seen the film of the 15 games he has played. I would love to see how much attention was given to EJ in practices by Marrone and Hackett just to satisfy my curiosity. How many fantastic catches did we see Sammy make. I expected that much and more in real games. I was disappointing because I expected great practice plays to happen in a real game
prissythecat Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 then I guess I am delusional. me and scores of others. The EJ detractors are in the minority. I am sorry if that bothers you, If you want proof who the majority is count up the posters responses Predict the starting quarterback for week 1.. Predicting that EJ will be a starter for week 1 does not equate to being an EJ fanboy .
GG Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 First of all you are delusional if you think that only 7 people on this message board think that EJ can't play. I have given many reasons why after defending him early. You don't get more accurate. You can build arm strength, understanding of an offense etc, but I don't know how you get more accurate or go through progressions faster. He has been a QB his whole life!! Obviously the coaching staff agrees with me or they wouldn't be trying so hard to upgrade. I like the guy but don't think that he is a franchise guy. Like I said though I would keep him. I really wonder how much last summer spooked the Bills' brass and how unprepared EJ was heading into and playing in camp. He was downright dreadful in the preseason games, and you may argue that his truly good game was against the Dolphins, but even then Hackett had very tight reigns on him. A lot of things don't add up. Now you have a new coach, who's game planned 4 times against EJ (I know last year as a back up) and they apparently don't think that he's the guy. Let's not forget the less than a full endorsement from the WR corps in the first four weeks and all the little things may be adding up. EJ probably can be an effective back up, just not in Buffalo. My guess is the team thinks they'll be doing him a favor by cutting him early and giving him a chance to start fresh somewhere else. As for cutting vs trading him - we're not dealing with idiots. If he has trade value, Bills would certainly trade him instead of cutting him.
NoSaint Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Personally, I don't think that EJ will ever be a franchise QB. His slow eyes and lack of accuracy make me feel this way. Also, this team isn't in position to develop a QB. They are a 9 win team with bad QB play. With that being said, releasing him is a terrible idea (especially for McCown). If they traded him as a part of a package to get a starter I would be okay but Locker, McCown and a QB in this draft isn't exciting to me. EJ should be given a chance with this regime. weve talked about the TJax situation on here many times - and i think this would be very similar even if we had 2 guys we liked more. its just no downside to keeping him unless you are able to turn him into a resource via trade. no one thought TJax was a franchise guy but the prospect of thad starting week 1 vs the pats after being in the system a week was terrifying. Worst case, EJ flops and is cut later after not a lot of reps. Best case, EJ looks better than expected.
Big Gun Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 It's more than 15 games - it's practice, camp, preseason, etc., plus preconceptions teams had about a player from his college days. Gabbert started 27 and Brandon Weeden started 20. They didn't get better over time. In fact, they got worse. Sometimes you can just tell. Whether that's fair to EJ or not, I don't know, but there have been enough guys who failed (i.e., Christian Ponder) that teams may be more willing to cut bait more quickly now than ever. Ryan and Roman may in fact think he's a bad QB; I simply don't know. But if they do, why should they keep him? Again, unlike most teams, the Bills regime is almost entirely new, starting with the owner. The Pegulas have no investment in EJ. Yep! 1000 + 1's! and stats don't tell the whole story on how good a player is, yet some others obviously think stats are the be all end all within the EJ good/bad discussions. Comical really!
NoSaint Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 My guess is the team thinks they'll be doing him a favor by cutting him early and giving him a chance to start fresh somewhere else. my hope is we learned that lesson the hard way once already.
eball Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I really wonder how much last summer spooked the Bills' brass and how unprepared EJ was heading into and playing in camp. He was downright dreadful in the preseason games, and you may argue that his truly good game was against the Dolphins, but even then Hackett had very tight reigns on him. A lot of things don't add up. Now you have a new coach, who's game planned 4 times against EJ (I know last year as a back up) and they apparently don't think that he's the guy. Let's not forget the less than a full endorsement from the WR corps in the first four weeks and all the little things may be adding up. EJ probably can be an effective back up, just not in Buffalo. My guess is the team thinks they'll be doing him a favor by cutting him early and giving him a chance to start fresh somewhere else. As for cutting vs trading him - we're not dealing with idiots. If he has trade value, Bills would certainly trade him instead of cutting him. It would shock me to learn EJ wasn't "prepared" -- that goes against everything we've seen and heard from him and those around him. If Whaley/Ryan/Roman don't think EJ can get past his limitations (or inexperience) to be an effective QB then fine. Personally, I think they'd be giving up too quickly and don't know why you wouldn't let him fight for a spot this summer, but that's just me...
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