YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Fair enough but Marrone turned a 9-7 job into offensive line coach on an invisible franchise. I don't think he gets as much respect as you think he does. Great coaches are cocky. If I was Chip Kelly, I'd love to kick the tires on EJ, a big recruit of Oregen when he was there. He probably laughs at Nate Hackett. or Arians the QB guru who was down to Ryan Freaking Lindley last year. He would snap him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Dave, with respect, you mentioned "recent NFL history", so why go back 10-15 years? I just did the homework back to 2007 using Pro Football Reference. I went back to 2007 to get to some real busts. In that time, 21 QB were drafted in the 1st round. The only QB without "character issues" cut without compensation whilst still under contract was Brandon Weedon. At 30 years of age, having completed 52.8% of passes in his 2nd year and thrown an equal number of TDs and INTs, he apparently had no trade value. For character concerns, Jamarcus Russell was cut after 3 seasons, having shown up to training camp massively obese and with rumored substance abuse issues that resulted in arrests after the cut. For the rest: Gabbert traded for a 6th after 3 seasons Tebow and a 7th traded for a 4th and 6th Quinn traded for a player and a 6th after 3 years Freeman released in his 5th season Ponder played out contract and became FA So I don't think that "recent NFL history" supports cutting a former 1st round pick without character concerns after 2 seasons and not being able to get compensation. Good post. And there were some character concerns with Freeman. And EJ had a better rookie year than all of those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Dave, with respect, you mentioned "recent NFL history", so why go back 10-15 years? I just did the homework back to 2007 using Pro Football Reference. I went back to 2007 to get to some real busts. In that time, 21 QB were drafted in the 1st round. The only QB without "character issues" cut without compensation whilst still under contract was Brandon Weedon. At 30 years of age, having completed 52.8% of passes in his 2nd year and thrown an equal number of TDs and INTs, he apparently had no trade value. For character concerns, Jamarcus Russell was cut after 3 seasons, having shown up to training camp massively obese and with rumored substance abuse issues that resulted in arrests after the cut. For the rest: Gabbert traded for a 6th after 3 seasons Tebow and a 7th traded for a 4th and 6th Quinn traded for a player and a 6th after 3 years Freeman released in his 5th season Ponder played out contract and became FA So I don't think that "recent NFL history" supports cutting a former 1st round pick without character concerns after 2 seasons and not being able to get compensation. I'm not advocating a cut! I'm just saying that these guys are generally untradeable (save for gabbert). I'm presuming that just about all of theses teams tried to unload the patrick ramseys, vince youngs, and jo losmans of the league but couldn't find takers. The real option is to hold on to the guy or cut bait. The bills are somewhat unique in that they've undergone a massive regime change (new owner, hiring rex, etc.). Let me restate my basic point - perceived qb busts almost never have any trade value despite what fans want to believe. Edited February 27, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Hi JohnC where is the quote from? I hear you on the preconceived notion but if the preconceived notion Rex and Roman have turns out to be "EJ ain't fixable" all the stuff they've been quoted as saying about giving EJ a clean slate and seeing good stuff from him would sit very poorly with me. Like I said elsewhere everyone understands they can't commit to him and no one expects the coaching staff to be 100% honest at this time of year, but they've gone further than they had to publically in saying positive things about EJ to do so much of an about face as dump him early in FA if that is indeed the plan. They will deservedly lose credibility (with me anyhow, and IMO with media) if that actually happens. That quote was my quote. It was in response to a statement made by Beerball. Whenever a coach or front office staffer is asked about what their thoughts are about a player don't expect a candid back office response. You are going to get the standard platitudinous response. Rex has been a HC in the AFCE for the past few years. He has watched the tape and is familiar with our roster before he even joined the team. So it is not too surprising that he has opinions on players before he joined the Bills. For the most part discount what is being said in public. It would be damaging to the team/player relationship to be very candid in public forums. The best way to find out what they think is to observe what they do with their personnel moves rather than listen to the standard blather that is offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 That quote was my quote. It was in response to a statement made by Beerball. Whenever a coach or front office staffer is asked about what their thoughts are about a player don't expect a candid back office response. You are going to get the standard platitudinous response. Rex has been a HC in the AFCE for the past few years. He has watched the tape and is familiar with our roster before he even joined the team. So it is not too surprising that he has opinions on players before he joined the Bills. For the most part discount what is being said in public. It would be damaging to the team/player relationship to be very candid in public forums. The best way to find out what they think is to observe what they do with their personnel moves rather than listen to the standard blather that is offered. I wonder if he watched tape of this QB: 20-28, 71.4%, 245 yards, 8.8 ypa, 2 tds, 121.9 qb rating. Because that was Manuel's last start against the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 That quote was my quote. It was in response to a statement made by Beerball. Whenever a coach or front office staffer is asked about what their thoughts are about a player don't expect a candid back office response. You are going to get the standard platitudinous response. Rex has been a HC in the AFCE for the past few years. He has watched the tape and is familiar with our roster before he even joined the team. So it is not too surprising that he has opinions on players before he joined the Bills. For the most part discount what is being said in public. It would be damaging to the team/player relationship to be very candid in public forums. The best way to find out what they think is to observe what they do with their personnel moves rather than listen to the standard blather that is offered. I don't think I said anything about public statements, they mean nothing. I responded to someone saying that cutting EJ was the prudent thing to do (IIRC). To me that's not prudent, it's foolish on several levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I wonder if he watched tape of this QB: 20-28, 71.4%, 245 yards, 8.8 ypa, 2 tds, 121.9 qb rating. Because that was Manuel's last start against the Jets. Pretty sure Rex commented on his performance that game in an interview he did with Brown or Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It just makes no sense. Let him compete for job. What do you gain by cutting him? its similar to cutting TJax before camp..... would it have really hurt to carry him if for nothing else as a just in case kolb and EJ weretn healthy week 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 So then it is just conjecture. I think the Locker part *may* be. The overall implication is we will sign someone of that caliber on the first day of free agency and then cut EJ after securing that "new to us" qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It seems like only yesterday everyone was over the top about the team purchase by Pegula and the quick hire of Rex Ryan. One rumor that EJ may be cut and one word that McCown is hammering out details, and suddenly virtually everyone is convinced it's the same old Bills and this team is going to suck forever and ever. And here I thought the off season would be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 We are desperate to find an alternative to EJ. We feel McCown is an upgrade to Orton. Roman and him are good friends. Look for this to be completed tomorrow AM, also look for EJ to be cut two days after FA opens. Imo Either you made this up or someone's feeding you false information. All the reports were that head coaching candidates were on board with developing EJ Manuel. Manuel's contract is nothing right now. The Bills would be beyond idiotic to cut a young QB with size, athletic ability and raw talent who was coached by the worst coaching staff in the league. The only reason I would understand him getting cut is if he "big timed" or disrespected Rex or Roman in some way. Which it's absurd even thinking that he did something like that. If they cut Manuel then I will be on the warpath. The gloves will be off. They will get absolutely roasted by me every day on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Leroi often has good sources, and that scares me if the plan is to cut EJ and put McGowan on charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Leroi often has good sources, and that scares me if the plan is to cut EJ and put McGowan on charge Very scary. Remember the other source that said "little talked about direction at QB..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Very scary. Remember the other source that said "little talked about direction at QB..." Please dont spoil my day. How could cutting EJ help this team? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 IMO the ONLY people desperate to find an alternative to EJ. are the microwave society. They want an instant HOF QB as the #1 and don't want to wait for someone to grow. They'd rather start dumb rumors about EJ getting cut and bloviate about how any FA has been is better than EJ. The facts are we don''t have an adequate sample of EJ's abilities from a grand total of 14 games in two different offensive systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Please dont spoil my day. How could cutting EJ help this team? CBF I can't think of a single thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Please dont spoil my day. How could cutting EJ help this team? CBF don't fall for the chicken little BS stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 don't fall for the chicken little BS stories. CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 IMO the ONLY people desperate to find an alternative to EJ. are the microwave society. They want an instant HOF QB as the #1 and don't want to wait for someone to grow. They'd rather start dumb rumors about EJ getting cut and bloviate about how any FA has been is better than EJ. The facts are we don''t have an adequate sample of EJ's abilities from a grand total of 14 games in two different offensive systems. Personally, I don't think that EJ will ever be a franchise QB. His slow eyes and lack of accuracy make me feel this way. Also, this team isn't in position to develop a QB. They are a 9 win team with bad QB play. With that being said, releasing him is a terrible idea (especially for McCown). If they traded him as a part of a package to get a starter I would be okay but Locker, McCown and a QB in this draft isn't exciting to me. EJ should be given a chance with this regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Either you made this up or someone's feeding you false information. All the reports were that head coaching candidates were on board with developing EJ Manuel. Manuel's contract is nothing right now. The Bills would be beyond idiotic to cut a young QB with size, athletic ability and raw talent who was coached by the worst coaching staff in the league. The only reason I would understand him getting cut is if he "big timed" or disrespected Rex or Roman in some way. Which it's absurd even thinking that he did something like that. If they cut Manuel then I will be on the warpath. The gloves will be off. They will get absolutely roasted by me every day on this board. Cutting Manuel does nothing to benefit the Bills. It cost more to cut him than keep him. Unless he's an attitude problem (and there's no evidence of that), then cutting him is pointless. Sounds more like an anti-EJ troll comment than an inside sources tidbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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