Cleveland Rocks? Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I'm praying the Bills sign McCown. Mainly so this EJ thing has a chance to happen, if true. Finally some hope for Browns fans.
Matt in KC Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I don't get cutting EJ before camp either, whether that actually is the plan or not, at least until we are sure we have 3 equal or better prospects in hand. I only understand that thinking if EJ was an active detriment to the team, with discipline and/or PR problems. Everything says he has the right attitude, and is even being talked up by the GM, so this doesn't make any sense to me.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Talk about putting your eggs into one basket if that is in fact "the plan." This could completely blow up in their face and waste a very, very good defense. I suppose when thinking about it a bit, what else can they do? If EJ doesn't work out, it would be a waste of a very good defense. If some other FA QB doesn't work out, it's a waste. I don't have anything against signing McCown, Locker, and any other FA from which they feel a glimmer of hope they can eke decent QB play, especially if they can keep the signing bonus/guaranteed $$ down to cut their losses. It's the part about jettisoning EJ by cutting him 2 days into FA that sits wrong with me. First, because of all the talk about Whaley looking for a coach who will give EJ a shot during the coach hiring, then all the talk from Roman about seeing some good things and giving EJ a clean slate and Rex "Right now we feel good about EJ, but we’ve got to add to that as well.” "I think in an ideal world you’d add a veteran player,” Ryan told Buffalobills.com. “I don’t think there’s any doubt about it. With that said I’m also excited about EJ Manuel and how he ends up developing and it’s a fresh start for everybody regardless of who you bring in. So I’ll be excited to see EJ.” Second, because from fan-sided sources like OvertheCap, because EJ's contract is guaranteed and the Bills take a $2.5M cap hit regardless of when they cut him. Third because if they don't want him it would only make organizational sense to see if they could at least get a late-round pick and someone to pick up part of his salary. No one expects the GM and coaches to be totally honest, that's counterproductive. Everyone understands they can't be totally committed to EJ. But there's no reason for them to talk him up to that degree if it were really true, not only that they don't see anything good and aren't going to give him a clean slate but that they intend to fling him out the door on his butt early in free agency. Edit: someone pointed out to me privately that EJ's contract being "fully guaranteed" means the Bills would take a $5.2M cap hit if they cut him this year, not $2.5M as I thought. Which makes cutting him before OTAs even sillier for the organization if correct. Source: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/e.j.-manuel/ Edited February 27, 2015 by Hopeful
JohnC Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Seems like a bad practice for coaches who are getting paid to put down their players and potentially effect their professional earnings. Like why woulda recruit ever trust a coach who did that. The issue isn't putting down any particular player as much as it is giving an honest evaluation. Coaches and scouts give evaluations on what they see, not on what they want to see. Whatever positive or negative views EJ is garnering it is based on his performances on the practice field and in the games. If a coach always gave a positive evaluation on one of his players simply because he was one of his players then what credibility does the coach have when asked to assess a player? In the end how you perform determines your status. Whatever liabilities a player has will be exposed. The bottom line is that players based on their performances write their own scouting report.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I don't get cutting EJ before camp either, whether that actually is the plan or not, at least until we are sure we have 3 equal or better prospects in hand. I only understand that thinking if EJ was an active detriment to the team, with discipline and/or PR problems. Everything says he has the right attitude, and is even being talked up by the GM, so this doesn't make any sense to me. New owners, a new HC, and a new offensive staff typically mean unless the QB in place is the one they'd choose it's over. Maybe they want this year to be boom or bust so we can either win games, or position ourselves to take the QB of our choice next year
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 He does have minimal value, but not trade value. Guys like him are cut all the time. I disagree and think it would be a grave mistake. Maybe I'm placing too much value on his having been a high pick, and if he were a 2nd or 3rd rounder, that possibility wouldn't look as grim, but I still see talent there. I'd go so far as to say that cutting any offensive player who showed anything positive under Marrone, then regressed, would be a big mistake. I believe that little in what Doug and Hackett were doing on offense. Also, cutting EJ to sign his more frequently injured doppleganger, who has a more extended record of failure -- that would be the height of lunacy.
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Sorry Jim, but IT was a GIFT. ZERO points against 3rd stringers! how can you even think otherwise??? since when had a 11 point deficit at half time meant a sure loss for the Putrids? How many prior games had the Bills controlled the game in the 3rd to lose when the clock struck 0 in the 4th? maybe, once you remove the Kyle Orton Avatar we will believe you are trying to be serious. Are you and JTSP the same person? Just like him you present what you THINK would have happened as a fact, case closed.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I'd feel better with Matt Schaub, but there arent many options out there. We need a veteran presence...even if he is holding a clipboard. OMG why Schaub? I was a huge Schaub fan when he was successfully QB the Texans. I would point out that in many regards that are highly touted here (AY/A for example), he was a top-10 QB much of his time there and under-appreciated. I say this so you'll know I'm coming off a serious case of Schaub love. Two years ago with the Texans, things fell apart for him. Don't know why. He went from being a very accurate seldom intercepted QB to being a pick-6 turnover machine. The Raiders took a gamble on him being fixable, and pretty firmly established he wasn't for them last year. Would he be a great QB choice if something fixable were wrong with him and it's fixed now so we can overlook the last two years sure. But as a lone or limited FA signing, it would be like putting all our options on "German Word for made of Glass Kolb" or on Bradford or Locker. Schaub is firmly labeled "Don't Count On It" at this point until proven otherwise.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Are you and JTSP the same person? Just like him you present what you THINK would have happened as a fact, case closed. now that's its legal in Alaska .... are you toking it up? remind us of the last time NE* lost at home in the regular season?
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 OMG why Schaub? I was a huge Schaub fan when he was successfully QB the Texans. I would point out that in many regards that are highly touted here (AY/A for example), he was a top-10 QB much of his time there and under-appreciated. I say this so you'll know I'm coming off a serious case of Schaub love. Two years ago with the Texans, things fell apart for him. Don't know why. He went from being a very accurate seldom intercepted QB to being a pick-6 turnover machine. The Raiders took a gamble on him being fixable, and pretty firmly established he wasn't for them last year. Would he be a great QB choice if something fixable were wrong with him and it's fixed now so we can overlook the last two years sure. But as a lone or limited FA signing, it would be like putting all our options on "German Word for made of Glass Kolb" or on Bradford or Locker. Schaub is firmly labeled "Don't Count On It" at this point until proven otherwise. Schaub is not Kurt Warner and he isn't going to have a career rebirth. He is toast.
Beerball Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 That is total nonsense. There has not been one player we have not gone after because of the money we spent on defense. Not one. Not to mention, if we wanted to, we could spend 20 mil on a QB right now. That's just downright wrong. quoted for Truth, Justice & the American Way
thebandit27 Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 He`s a puss. Seen it from day one. So much so that he got hurt NOT going out of bounds and instead choosing to take a hit? Stop. Had to come check this out. The EJ getting cut rumor has been picked up by the Browns message board, with a link to this board! The radio guys yesterday were just talking about trying to trade for him if the Bills traded for Bradford. Never though he would be available if they didn't have an actual QB to replace him. Has this been verified anywhere else? I'd be ecstatic. With all due respect, my brother works for the SD Chargers. None of that is accurate (no pun intended) though I can see how believing it might make you feel better if your team did something like this. Thanks for the outside perspective...I know you've been an EJ supporter in the past, but I'd prefer if he stays here thank you very much So who on here used to update and post a ranking of inside sources? From my memory it had a lot of green and red text, and NeverGiveUp at the top the last time i saw it. We need an update so I know how much to believe Leroi! I believe that was Papazoid. Off the top of my head, here are some folks that I know have had good info in the past: Nevergiveup (Nix to GM, Gailey to HC, Spiller pick in 2010) Leroi (Rex/Roman) Ralph83OP (Incognito) Kelly the Dog (franchise sale) Kirby Jackson (Kolb signing, Glenn illness, many others) K-9 (draft stuff) Metzalaars (Mario visit) quoted for Truth, Justice & the American Way and bacon
JohnC Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 The prudent thing to do, especially because of the cap hit, is to see with your own eyes how he responds to your coaching. Anything else is folly IMO...(in case you think I'm enamored with EJ I'd suggest you dig up some threads from last off season), I recognize that in a long thread one can't read all the posts. On response #698 I basically stated the point you are making. But that is not to say that they don't have some preconceived notions about a player when they assumed their positions. "Rex is not a fool. EJ is going to be given a chance to compete with McCown or whoever is brought in. If he demonstrates that he is a better option he will be the starter. In my view the HC's bias is going to be leaning toward the more experienced qb. Whether EJ is the starter or not because of the injury factor in a long season he will be given an opportunity to get playing time."
truth on hold Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Are you and JTSP the same person? Just like him you present what you THINK would have happened as a fact, case closed.errrr, I did? Heres my actual post. "you really think the super bowl champs wouldnt have beaten us if they kept their starters in? its the second half where they do the most damage against us. like our first game against them in buffalo. we were down by 6 at the half and it looked like a game, second half collapse and we lose by 15." I skeptically questioned your conclusion that because we were up at the half, that we would have won the game. No stating "as fact" what I think would have happened. Unlike you asserting a half time lead = victory Edited February 27, 2015 by JTSP
Beerball Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I don't understand why anyone would have a problem signing him. His role will be clip board holder / cheerleader vet presence. over whom?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Schaub is not Kurt Warner and he isn't going to have a career rebirth. He is toast. No offense intended, but how do you know this? People in St Louis would have said pretty strongly that Warner was toast and he didn't look good for the Giants. Do you know what went wrong for him? Cuz I think one has to know what was/is wrong to know this for sure?
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 No offense intended, but how do you know this? People in St Louis would have said pretty strongly that Warner was toast and he didn't look good for the Giants. Do you know what went wrong for him? Cuz I think one has to know what was/is wrong to know this for sure? Warner was definitely dealing with injuries with the Giants. Schaub looks to me to have seriously lost arm strength - which was never his strong suit - and it's compounded by a lack of confidence out there. If I were a betting man, I would not bet on the man.
truth on hold Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) No offense intended, but how do you know this? People in St Louis would have said pretty strongly that Warner was toast and he didn't look good for the Giants. Do you know what went wrong for him? Cuz I think one has to know what was/is wrong to know this for sure? Thats true but was he ever as good as Warner? iirc schaubs game was pretty much handing it off to foster, they asked very little of him. Warner OTOH whipped the ball around all over the field Edited February 27, 2015 by JTSP
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I recognize that in a long thread one can't read all the posts. On response #698 I basically stated the point you are making. But that is not to say that they don't have some preconceived notions about a player when they assumed their positions. "Rex is not a fool. EJ is going to be given a chance to compete with McCown or whoever is brought in. If he demonstrates that he is a better option he will be the starter. In my view the HC's bias is going to be leaning toward the more experienced qb. Whether EJ is the starter or not because of the injury factor in a long season he will be given an opportunity to get playing time." Hi JohnC where is the quote from? I hear you on the preconceived notion but if the preconceived notion Rex and Roman have turns out to be "EJ ain't fixable" all the stuff they've been quoted as saying about giving EJ a clean slate and seeing good stuff from him would sit very poorly with me. Like I said elsewhere everyone understands they can't commit to him and no one expects the coaching staff to be 100% honest at this time of year, but they've gone further than they had to publically in saying positive things about EJ to do so much of an about face as dump him early in FA if that is indeed the plan. They will deservedly lose credibility (with me anyhow, and IMO with media) if that actually happens.
dave mcbride Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I disagree and think it would be a grave mistake. Maybe I'm placing too much value on his having been a high pick, and if he were a 2nd or 3rd rounder, that possibility wouldn't look as grim, but I still see talent there. I'd go so far as to say that cutting any offensive player who showed anything positive under Marrone, then regressed, would be a big mistake. I believe that little in what Doug and Hackett were doing on offense. Also, cutting EJ to sign his more frequently injured doppleganger, who has a more extended record of failure -- that would be the height of lunacy. I'm not advocating cutting him; I'm just saying that based on recent nfl history, the Bills probably couldn't get a 7th rounder for him if they tried. Unfortunately for EJ, the word around the league is that he appears to be a very weak qb, and no team wants to be saddled with a first round salary for a late-round quality player. Plus for better or worse, teams value draft picks like gold, even late rounders (just look at the Pats). Better to take your chances and try and snag him when he's cut.
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