IDBillzFan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well, good news everyone! It looks like Barry has brokered a deal to stop Iran from building nukes. Okay, granted, the plan is actually designed to LET Iran build up their nuclear weapons, but still...we have a deal! It's a win-win! Well, except it's not, but hey...don't be a wet blanket, mmkay? Man, can this WH negotiate or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well, good news everyone! It looks like Barry has brokered a deal to stop Iran from building nukes. Okay, granted, the plan is actually designed to LET Iran build up their nuclear weapons, but still...we have a deal! It's a win-win! Well, except it's not, but hey...don't be a wet blanket, mmkay? Man, can this WH negotiate or what? #winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't really understand this fear of a perhaps someday in the next ten years nuclear Iran when people seem fine with agitating and provoking Russia which has an actual nuclear capacity to destroy civilization. One of the truly !@#$ed up things about this country is that real risk assessment seems to be absent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't really understand this fear of a perhaps someday in the next ten years nuclear Iran when people seem fine with agitating and provoking Russia which has an actual nuclear capacity to destroy civilization. One of the truly !@#$ed up things about this country is that real risk assessment seems to be absent. The Russians aren't collectively insane. They may be devious and aggressive, but they aren't crazy. I have confidence that the Russians are well aware of MAD. I have no confidence the Iranians or any of the extremist groups do. Also, you can be worried about both. Also, Romney was saying Russia was our biggest geopolitical threat almost 4 years ago, and got sneered at by the current President. You could've voted for that guy with some great risk assessment abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Also, Romney was saying Russia was our biggest geopolitical threat almost 4 years ago, and got sneered at by the current President. Boy, that was a real knee-slapper back then. But hey...at least he didn't have to comment on whether he thinks Obama is a Christian, because apparently that's what the MSM is most focused on right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The Russians aren't collectively insane. They may be devious and aggressive, but they aren't crazy. I have confidence that the Russians are well aware of MAD. I have no confidence the Iranians or any of the extremist groups do. The Iranians have been extremely cautious and deliberate - can you name anything they have done in the last 35 years that seems wild and impulsive? As for Russia they are not insane but brinkmanship and miscalculation can lead to decisions that seem mad from the outside but have an internal logic - btw both the US and Russia have come closer to launching their nukes than most people are aware of , computer glitches, communication failures, misinterpretation of radar or satellite information we have been very lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I have confidence that the Russians are well aware of MAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The Iranians have been extremely cautious and deliberate - can you name anything they have done in the last 35 years that seems wild and impulsive? As for Russia they are not insane but brinkmanship and miscalculation can lead to decisions that seem mad from the outside but have an internal logic - btw both the US and Russia have come closer to launching their nukes than most people are aware of , computer glitches, communication failures, misinterpretation of radar or satellite information we have been very lucky. I do not trust or pretend to understand how the Iranians think. I trust that I know a little how the Russians think. I don't think the Russians are insane. I don't think they have too many values that take precedence over their lives and the lives of their entire nation. Sure, we've been close. We know the Russians' limits. Do we know the Iranians'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I do not trust or pretend to understand how the Iranians think. I trust that I know a little how the Russians think. I don't think the Russians are insane. I don't think they have too many values that take precedence over their lives and the lives of their entire nation. Sure, we've been close. We know the Russians' limits. Do we know the Iranians'? And I don't think the Russians have threatened to wipe anyone off the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 And I don't think the Russians have threatened to wipe anyone off the map. Except us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) And I don't think the Russians have threatened to wipe anyone off the map. lol one quote from a guy who's no longer in power, that has been taken out of context and there are many interpretations of what he really meant. But hey its a convenient tag-line the war cheerleaders need. If not that theyd find something else. But it's cool when a US Senator sings a song about bombing Iran Can you imagine how that would be shoved in our faces non-stop if an Iranian leader did that about US? Nothing like them old double standards when trying to instigate a war, huh Edited February 24, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 lol one quote from a guy who's no longer in power, that has been taken out of context and there are many interpretations of what he really meant. But hey its a convenient tag-line the war cheerleaders need. If not that theyd find something else. But it's cool when a US Senator sings a song about bombing Iran Can you imagine how that would be shoved in our faces non-stop if an Iranian leader did that about US? Nothing like them old double standards when trying to instigate a war, huh Seriously will you go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) oops .... Leaked cables show Netanyahu’s Iran bomb claim contradicted by Mossad Binyamin Netanyahu’s dramatic declaration to world leaders in 2012 that Iranwas about a year away from making a nuclear bomb was contradicted by his own secret service, according to a top-secret Mossad document. But in a secret report shared with South Africa a few weeks later, Israel’s intelligence agency concluded that Iran was “not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons”. Other members of Israel’s security establishment were riled by Netanyahu’s rhetoric on the Iranian nuclear threat and his advocacy of military confrontation. In April 2012, a former head of Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security agency, accused Netanyahu of “messianic” political leadership for pressing for military action, saying he and the then defence minister, Ehud Barak, were misleading the public on the Iran issue. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/leaked-spy-cables-netanyahu-iran-bomb-mossad ..... yeah, let's invite this a#@ clown to come and lie us into another conflict Edited February 24, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Those damn sneaky Jews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Gee, what a coincidence that Iran hasn't been "bothered" by ISIS, ISIL, Daesh [choose one, they're the same outfit]. I wonder if that could mean that Iran supports (whichever name you picked)....hmmmm, I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Gee, what a coincidence that Iran hasn't been "bothered" by ISIS, ISIL, Daesh [choose one, they're the same outfit]. I wonder if that could mean that Iran supports (whichever name you picked)....hmmmm, I wonder. well now you're just being !@#$ing stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 well now you're just being !@#$ing stupid You must admit, not all of us characterize Iran as cautious and deliberate; but for those who do, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Iran is engaging in a false flag-type approach to wear down some of her enemies while protesting Oh so much. (And, while I have the floor, permit me to share with you that there is nothing I prize more than being labelled stupid by a liberal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Yeah.................oops is right.........."leaked cable" story is BS Why the Fake Story About the Mossad Contradicting Netanyahu? by Jonathan S Tobin Yesterday the headlines in the Guardian and Al Jazeera trumpeted what seemed like a very juicy story. According to leaked South African intelligence cables obtained by Al Jazeera and shared with the Guardian, the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad had come to conclusions that “contradicted” Prime Minister Netanyahu’s assertions about Iran’s nuclear program in his 2012 speech to the General Assembly of the United Nations. The charge was repeated today in a story published by the New York Times. If true, then Netanyahu’s speech, best remembered for the cartoon bomb illustration he brandished, would be exposed as political hyperbole. But a closer look at the speech and the leaked cable shows that the headlines aren’t justified. In fact, they are downright false. That leads us to ask the question why major media outlets are seeking to discredit Netanyahu with misleading stories just at the moment when details about President Obama’s latest nuclear offer to Iran has become public. The answer reveals a great deal about both the bias of the press and the stakes in the Iran nuclear debate. Unpacking the assertions in the Al Jazeera/Guardian story isn’t difficult. As Mitch Ginsburg points out today in the Times of Israel, the crux of that story is that the leaked documents say that in 2012, the Mossad told its South African counterparts that, “Iran at this time is not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons.” That led both papers (dutifully echoed by the Times a day later) to claim that Netanyahu’s “inflammatory rhetoric” and “alarmist tone” about the prospect of an Iranian bomb was not only unjustified but a lie made out of whole cloth. That is damning stuff indeed. But what exactly did Netanyahu say in September 2012 while brandishing a picture of a Wile E. Coyote-style bomb? By next spring, at most by next summer, at current enrichment rates, they will have finished the medium enrichment and move[d] on to the final stage. From there, it’s only a few months, possibly a few weeks, before they get enough enriched uranium for the first bomb. Let’s be clear about this. Netanyahu did not say that Iran would have a bomb in a few months. He just said they were enriching enough uranium to create a bomb. That is not a minor distinction. And on that point, there was no disagreement between the Mossad and the prime minister. Which is to say this big story is no story at all. But the much-ballyhooed “contradiction” which was not actually a contradiction is still being reported throughout the world and on cable news networks as a flaw in Netanyahu’s arguments and a blow to his credibility. More at the link.................... . Edited February 24, 2015 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I do not trust or pretend to understand how the Iranians think. I trust that I know a little how the Russians think. I don't think the Russians are insane. I don't think they have too many values that take precedence over their lives and the lives of their entire nation. Sure, we've been close. We know the Russians' limits. Do we know the Iranians'? lol what a dope, succumbing to the "prove a negative" tactic. With Iraq it was "prove you dont have WMDs", knowing of course the standard of absolute proof was highly impractical, if not impossible. With Iran it's even worse, it's about proving they won't commit a future act with absolute certainty, which of course is impossible. Reality is that Iran has little capacity to deploy force. Its strategic doctrines are defensive, designed to deter invasion long enough for diplomacy to set in. Edited February 25, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 lol what a dope, succumbing to the "prove a negative" tactic. With Iraq it was "prove you dont have WMDs", knowing of course the standard of absolute proof was highly impractical, if not impossible. With Iran it's even worse, it's about proving they won't commit a future act with absolute certainty, which of course is impossible. Reality is that Iran has little capacity to deploy force. Its strategic doctrines are defensive, designed to deter invasion long enough for diplomacy to set in. Well then let's let them have nukes. What could possible go wrong right. So instead of the while proving a negative give a few good reasons why we should allow them to have nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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