meazza Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 On a largely different note: I don't get what Mike is doing. I simply don't. He gets paid to send Tuco to prison, takes another payout to reduce Tuco's sentence, plays a dangerous negotiating game with the guy whose assassins are threatening his family to do so, THEN rips off that same guy to the tune of a quarter-million. Now, in the finale, it looks like he's going to go all Carlos Hathcock on somebody. He keeps escalating a situation that I don't see that he needs to escalate. His actions aren't making a whole lot of sense to me. He just wants to keep you and Coral safe... Sorry wrong series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Chuck has a lot of sympathetic qualities. He's just portrayed as the antagonist. Think about a series that, instead of being centered around Jimmy becoming Saul, was centered on Chuck trying to prevent "giving a chimp a machine gun," in an increasingly futile struggle to prevent the inevitable. Chuck should be the most sympathetic character, since he's the Cassandra archetype: the only one that can clearly see what's coming, but no one listens to him (hell, he's even confined to his own space and isolated from everyone else, both physically and intellectually - how much more "Cassandra" can you get?) It's really easy to present any of these characters as sympathetic or disagreeable. (Case in point: Kim defending Jimmy by pointing out Chuck always tried to sabotage him - accurate, reasonable criticism, but she's expressing it in a context of enabling Jimmy's fraud and forgery. Another case in point: Howard Hamlin acting like an !@#$ the entire first season, until we find out that he's actually not, but merely trying to satisfy Chuck's wishes w/r/t Jimmy. And then of course Jimmy, as James McGill attorney at law, is always doing the wrong thing for the right reason - or at least to right an injustice, real or perceived.) On a largely different note: I don't get what Mike is doing. I simply don't. He gets paid to send Tuco to prison, takes another payout to reduce Tuco's sentence, plays a dangerous negotiating game with the guy whose assassins are threatening his family to do so, THEN rips off that same guy to the tune of a quarter-million. Now, in the finale, it looks like he's going to go all Carlos Hathcock on somebody. He keeps escalating a situation that I don't see that he needs to escalate. His actions aren't making a whole lot of sense to me. I agree with these insights. Every character in the series has sympathetic qualities. But Chuck's ego and jealously of Jimmy have allowed him to royally screw Jimmy over, both professionally and personally. Have we forgotten what he did to Jimmy in season 1? And he was all set to send have Jimmy sent to jail last night because well, "facts are facts." Mike's evolution is interesting. We know he turns into someone who has no compunction about killing a guy eventually; someone willing to take "Full Measures" if necessary. When he was in the DA's office with Jimmy as his lawyer, I got the impression it really galled him to have to bow to Hector's demand that he claim Tuco's gun as his own. Perhaps his sense of righteousness and justice governed his decision to rob Hector The look on his face when he learned the good samaritan was killed by Hector's crew said a lot, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I agree with these insights. Every character in the series has sympathetic qualities. But Chuck's ego and jealously of Jimmy have allowed him to royally screw Jimmy over, both professionally and personally. Have we forgotten what he did to Jimmy in season 1? And he was all set to send have Jimmy sent to jail last night because well, "facts are facts." Mike's evolution is interesting. We know he turns into someone who has no compunction about killing a guy eventually; someone willing to take "Full Measures" if necessary. When he was in the DA's office with Jimmy as his lawyer, I got the impression it really galled him to have to bow to Hector's demand that he claim Tuco's gun as his own. Perhaps his sense of righteousness and justice governed his decision to rob Hector The look on his face when he learned the good samaritan was killed by Hector's crew said a lot, too. My point being that the perspective by which they're viewed is more important than the actions themselves. Yes, Chuck's ego (jealousy? Not so sure...) has allowed him to screw over Jimmy...from the perspective of Jimmy's story, which is the one we're seeing. Flip that perspective around, and you can just as easily tell the story of Chuck crusading for the integrity of the law and judicial system by doing everything in his power to keep a known scam artist from corrupting the legal system he knows and loves - to the point of making a heroic self-sacrifice of alienating the brother he loves. I'm not saying either perspective is right or wrong. What I am saying is that each is equally valid in its own way (even though we're only presented with the one). Which is the brilliance of the show and the writing - it's presenting is with a very complex and nuanced set of relationships and actions, and daring us to take sides we "know" are "right" and "wrong." It's Breaking Bad's themes on steroids - daring the viewer to sympathize with Walter White through his transformation from "Mr. Chips" to "Scarface" was an overt, stated goal of the show. But it was also largely a linear progression, since it was a story about Walter White taking control of his life and surroundings (which is what made him attractive to viewers - people like the "in control" hero, even if he's an evil anti-hero.) Better Call Saul is an order of magnitude more subtle, just for spreading the same themes across five (at least) characters, and creating a structure where instead of subverting viewer expectations over five seasons, they're now more subtly making viewers question their expectations every episode. That's just brilliant storytelling. It's television at its absolute best. Most series won't even achieve a single episode of this level of mastery (off the top of my head...Star Trek may have had one. Cheers may have managed it once or twice. Maybe House and Mash. And American Idol. There's probably other shows I haven't seen that have managed it, but that's about all I can think of.) Gilligan and company are managing it an episode at a time over entire seasons. That's just phenomenal. And yes...I said very early in this thread that I didn't have high hopes for BCS. I also said I hoped I was wrong. I'm glad I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The truck driver scene singing I thought was a nod to Gale Boetthicher or that scene was supposed to make you think of him. Chuck is probably dying of brain hemorrhage and the people in the store will be late to call 911. Jimmy can't help him without being exposed to the fraud. He ends up being helpless and just watching him die. I don't feel bad for Chuck at all. He kind of deserves it in the end. I wonder if chuck really is sensitive to electronics or is it all his head? Chuck does deserve it but I hope he doesn't die. That truck scene was pretty cool, seeing the hose snake across the road was awesome. The driver must have seen Mike's car. You saw how broken up Mike was that the 'good samaritan' was collateral damage in the whole thing. Kim Wexler in rolled up jeans with chuck taylor low tops? Yes please!!! She continues to sully her reputation too, she is fully aware the Jimmy did what Chuck claimed but as long as it benefits her, she seems to be willing to take it. Gonna be interesting to see if we saw Chucks demise there, he is too good of a character to lose this early on. Yes she benefits but I got the impression that she took it because if she didn't Jimmy would screwed big time. As much as Chuck has some sympathetic qualities as a character, I can't get over how he totally screwed Jimmy over. Don't forget, Jimmy worked his ass off in the mail room, earned his degree legitimately, and brought in the Sandpiper case before Chuck arranged to make sure Jimmy never got an office at HHM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I wonder if chuck really is sensitive to electronics or is it all his head? During Season 1 there was a hospital scene where Jimmy was talking to a nurse or doctor about Chuck's condition. The nurse/doctor subtly turned on some piece of electronic medical equipment which did not elicit a response from Chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Mike's evolution is interesting. We know he turns into someone who has no compunction about killing a guy eventually; someone willing to take "Full Measures" if necessary. When he was in the DA's office with Jimmy as his lawyer, I got the impression it really galled him to have to bow to Hector's demand that he claim Tuco's gun as his own. Perhaps his sense of righteousness and justice governed his decision to rob Hector I'd have to go back and watch Breaking Bad, but did Mike ever kill a so called "innocent"? The only time I even remember him killing was when he had to save the asian guy who was being held in a warehouse (I forget what that guy's role was). I always think of him more as the cleaner when he was first introduced as opposed to a killer. It's been a while though, so I don't remember many specifics. The first thing that comes to mind with the whole good samaritan thing though was the kid at the train robbery. He comes across as the kind of guy who will do whatever he has to, but still has that honor code of not involving "civilians" (or whatever you want to call them). That much is retained up until the end. Edited April 13, 2016 by shrader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I think this is a brilliant show. An ovservation I made about Chuck is this... I think last episode really painted a clear picture about the amount of jealousy he has for Jimmy. I think this is shown by Chuck going into the copy place in the middle of the night and exposing himself to everything he hates. Its one thing for him to be in a dark conference room but here he is going into a store with tons of fluorescent lights and tons of copy machines. The fact that he still went in to confront the guy working there really made it clear to me at least how much Chuck despises Jimmy. Does anyone else find the acting on this show amazing? I agree with what the other poster said that the guy who plays Howard is amazing. I really enjoy when he gets screen time. And Mike, oh man what can I say? I could watch an entire series based on Mike This show is amazing CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I think this is a brilliant show. An ovservation I made about Chuck is this... I think last episode really painted a clear picture about the amount of jealousy he has for Jimmy. I think this is shown by Chuck going into the copy place in the middle of the night and exposing himself to everything he hates. Its one thing for him to be in a dark conference room but here he is going into a store with tons of fluorescent lights and tons of copy machines. The fact that he still went in to confront the guy working there really made it clear to me at least how much Chuck despises Jimmy. Does anyone else find the acting on this show amazing? I agree with what the other poster said that the guy who plays Howard is amazing. I really enjoy when he gets screen time. And Mike, oh man what can I say? I could watch an entire series based on Mike This show is amazing CBF My favorite Howard acting scene in the whole series was one he didn't even speak. When he and Kim go to meet Mesa Verde there is this long unspoken scene where they walk down the hall and then just stand there waiting for them to show. The way he comports himself and on command snaps and freezes into his regal pose is just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 My favorite Howard acting scene in the whole series was one he didn't even speak. When he and Kim go to meet Mesa Verde there is this long unspoken scene where they walk down the hall and then just stand there waiting for them to show. The way he comports himself and on command snaps and freezes into his regal pose is just amazing. I know exactly the scene you are talking about... It was awesome CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'd have to go back and watch Breaking Bad, but did Mike ever kill a so called "innocent"? The only time I even remember him killing was when he had to save the asian guy who was being held in a warehouse (I forget what that guy's role was). I always think of him more as the cleaner when he was first introduced as opposed to a killer. It's been a while though, so I don't remember many specifics. The first thing that comes to mind with the whole good samaritan thing though was the kid at the train robbery. He comes across as the kind of guy who will do whatever he has to, but still has that honor code of not involving "civilians" (or whatever you want to call them). That much is retained up until the end. Two cartel guys trying to hijack Poillos Hermanos truck, and at least one other guy he killed in the guy's living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 hard to believe its the same guy, not to mention him as David St. Hubbins My favorite Howard acting scene in the whole series was one he didn't even speak. When he and Kim go to meet Mesa Verde there is this long unspoken scene where they walk down the hall and then just stand there waiting for them to show. The way he comports himself and on command snaps and freezes into his regal pose is just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Watched this week's episode last night. Just a great, great show. Can't wait to see which direction they go with Chuck's condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 They've gone as far as they could with the Chuck storyline. I fear he won't survive the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 They've gone as far as they could with the Chuck storyline. I fear he won't survive the fall. They can wring a tearful goodbye out of it, but aside from that I suspect you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Watched this week's episode last night. Just a great, great show. Can't wait to see which direction they go with Chuck's condition. They've gone as far as they could with the Chuck storyline. I fear he won't survive the fall. They can wring a tearful goodbye out of it, but aside from that I suspect you're right. I've tried to predict Gilliigan's next moves in Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul in the past and more often than not was proven wrong. But here goes Jimmy covers his tracks at the copy shop by staying out of sight while Chuck is rushed to a hospital. Chuck is unresponsive and the doctors say he may not come out of it. Howard, Kim, the legal aid who took care of Chuck (forget his name), and everyone who cares about Chuck urge Jimmy, Chuck's only relative, to do the humane thing and give the OK to let him go. Jimmy on the other hand senses opportunity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 If I'm right about Chuck dying then that will be the end of Kim and Jimmy's relationship as well and bring about the birth of Saul and his own private practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I think this is a brilliant show. An ovservation I made about Chuck is this... I think last episode really painted a clear picture about the amount of jealousy he has for Jimmy. I think this is shown by Chuck going into the copy place in the middle of the night and exposing himself to everything he hates. Its one thing for him to be in a dark conference room but here he is going into a store with tons of fluorescent lights and tons of copy machines. The fact that he still went in to confront the guy working there really made it clear to me at least how much Chuck despises Jimmy. Does anyone else find the acting on this show amazing? I agree with what the other poster said that the guy who plays Howard is amazing. I really enjoy when he gets screen time. And Mike, oh man what can I say? I could watch an entire series based on Mike This show is amazing CBF yeah mike isn't dead in the desert and after WW walks off Mike gets up rubs some dirt on it. I've tried to predict Gilliigan's next moves in Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul in the past and more often than not was proven wrong. But here goes Jimmy covers his tracks at the copy shop by staying out of sight while Chuck is rushed to a hospital. Chuck is unresponsive and the doctors say he may not come out of it. Howard, Kim, the legal aid who took care of Chuck (forget his name), and everyone who cares about Chuck urge Jimmy, Chuck's only relative, to do the humane thing and give the OK to let him go. Jimmy on the other hand senses opportunity... nice During Season 1 there was a hospital scene where Jimmy was talking to a nurse or doctor about Chuck's condition. The nurse/doctor subtly turned on some piece of electronic medical equipment which did not elicit a response from Chuck. thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) I'll say this. Jimmy becoming Saul has to happen by the end of this season. Can you really have a show called Better Call Saul when Saul never appears for 3 seasons? Also we haven't had a present day Saul flash forward Omaha Cinnabon moment in a while. I'm betting there will be an amazing payoff at some point there. Edited April 15, 2016 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Anyone else have a feeling that the commercial he was shooting at the school was similar to his "better call Saul" commercial we saw on Breaking Bad? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 that's what I am thinking...he has this conversion already in the planning stages, the flamboyant suits, the cheesy flag shots, he is gonna go through the change very soon Anyone else have a feeling that the commercial he was shooting at the school was similar to his "better call Saul" commercial we saw on Breaking Bad? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts