Coach Tuesday Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I personally think that the media has completely blown the Incognito story from Day 1. In my opinion, there is a difference, albeit subtle, between bullying and hazing. Bullying is unsanctioned, informal aggression by an individual or small group of individuals, designed to make themselves appear dominant and the victim appear inferior and ostracized. By slight contrast, hazing is more organized, more collective, and often sanctioned (expressly or implicitly) by authority and/or tradition. It is designed not to expel and ostracize individuals, but to include them through a shared ritual of suffering. The mentality is, We had to do this when we were rookies, now you have to do it so that you can be one of us. From everything I've read about the situation in Miami, and although I'm no psychologist, Jonathan Martin was hazed. He was not bullied. The same thing that happened to him happens in countless fraternities, in the military, and in many, many sports teams at the college and professional level. Richie Incognito is (or certainly was) a horrible person, but he was unfairly singled out for something that happens all over the place. Hazing is bad, don't get me wrong. But it's bad for different reasons than bullying is. I don't have more of a conclusion to offer about this, just making the point that the media missed the point. Edited February 10, 2015 by Coach Tuesday
BillsBytheBay Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I haven't known our line to have any soft personalitys. Eric Wood actually likes the guy...... Guys that are playing have killed people, beaten woman, fought dogs, dealt drugs.......... And we're worried about Richie? I'm glad we signed a guy more talented than anyone at his position on our roster. The hell with a second chance. Everyone deserves help.
Rob's House Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I am extremely disappointed that the Bills signed Incognito. I read the whole report. the findings were, in my opinion, conclusive. There is a pattern of bullying behaviour from this individual towards his teammates. There will always be those who downplay it... who believe football should be a macho game and anyone who differs from that norm deserves the persecution that comes with it. I don't believe that and hence I don't want a guy like Incognito whose pattern of behaviour suggests he does anywhere near my locker room. I hope if he gets on the field he plays well and hopes the Bills win. But he will be a Bills player that I can never root for and that makes me sad. No offense, but anyone who took that report at face value is a sucker IMO.
eball Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I personally think that the media has completely blown the Incognito story from Day 1. In my opinion, there is a difference, albeit subtle, between bullying and hazing. Bullying is unsanctioned, informal aggression by an individual or small group of individuals, designed to make themselves appear dominant and the victim appear inferior and ostracized. By slight contrast, hazing is more organized, more collective, and often sanctioned (expressly or implicitly) by authority and/or tradition. It is designed not to expel and ostracize individuals, but to include them through a shared ritual of suffering. The mentality is, We had to do this when we were rookies, now you have to do it so that you can be one of us. From everything I've read about the situation in Miami, and although I'm no psychologist, Jonathan Martin was hazed. He was not bullied. The same thing that happened to him happens in countless fraternities, in the military, and in many, many sports teams at the college and professional level. Richie Incognito is (or certainly was) a horrible person, but he was unfairly singled out for something that happens all over the place. Hazing is bad, don't get me wrong. But it's bad for different reasons than bullying is. I don't have more of a conclusion to offer about this, just making the point that the media missed the point. This is a really good post, Coach. Spot on with the hazing parallel, in my opinion.
YoloinOhio Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 No offense, but anyone who took that report at face value is a sucker IMO."Ted Wells integrity is impeccable. These are professionals." - Roger Goodell
rumblefish Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I will agree with Gunner Bill, image is everything, it's starts with what's his name new HC, and look who the first player signed, no matter how you explain it bulling is bulling, but condone this policy and support it is just wrong, and is not positive image for the team and the WNY area, great team, championship teams, walk the walk, and play hard, but boasting of bullying is just as bad if not worst than all the other abuses that plague society, cheer a bully or bullying is sick, and not a policy I will support,
Hazed and Amuzed Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I love this signing. I do think it's interesting that some posters(you know who you are) love incognito but think Marshawn is a punk. Incognito is a punk too. Why are some punks acceptable to some but other punks are just garbage? I don't mind having "behavioral problems" on my team, this isn't choir practice. We tried the "high character" angle, we were terrible during that era. I want the Bills to win, not be role models. If kids are out there looking up to players like Lynch and Incognito then there is a disconnect with the parenting. As far as adults who think that players with "issues" don't belong, I just don't get that. Who the hell cares? I'd say probably most posters on this board have had issues with character at some point or another, I'd even say most people here have committed a crime at one time in their life, whether it's small(speeding, shoplifting etc) or big(felonies such as drunk driving) let's remember that just because you didn't get caught doesn't mean you're not a criminal. I'm pretty sure no one here is qualified to judge another based on the others past. The self-righteousness here at times is frustrating. Edited February 10, 2015 by Hazed and Amuzed
YoloinOhio Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I will agree with Gunner Bill, image is everything, it's starts with what's his name new HC, and look who the first player signed, no matter how you explain it bulling is bulling, but condone this policy and support it is just wrong, and is not positive image for the team and the WNY area, great team, championship teams, walk the walk, and play hard, but boasting of bullying is just as bad if not worst than all the other abuses that plague society, cheer a bully or bullying is sick, and not a policy I will support, image doesn't win games. And image is an opinion shared by some and not others. Many think the Seahawks, for the most part, are classless goons. Amazingly, this image that some people have of them hasn't impacted their success.
eball Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 image doesn't win games. And image is an opinion shared by some and not others. Many think the Seahawks, for the most part, are classless goons. Amazingly, this image that some people have of them hasn't impacted their success. And following along with this, there are "good guys" and "bad guys" on every roster in the league. Some of the bad actors do things more publicly than others, so those are the ones we hear about. It really is naive to claim you will stop supporting a team because of a particular player they sign, however -- particularly if that player's "transgressions" haven't resulted in physical harm to anyone or created a danger to society, and if the player has already been "punished" for his bad acts. We all cheer for the laundry anyway...if we actually like the people wearing the uniforms it's a bonus.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 image doesn't win games. And image is an opinion shared by some and not others. Many think the Seahawks, for the most part, are classless goons. Amazingly, this image that some people have of them hasn't impacted their success. Bingo! Image is stupid simply because it's a relative term. I want a SB win not a presidential candidate.
thebandit27 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I personally think that the media has completely blown the Incognito story from Day 1. In my opinion, there is a difference, albeit subtle, between bullying and hazing. Bullying is unsanctioned, informal aggression by an individual or small group of individuals, designed to make themselves appear dominant and the victim appear inferior and ostracized. By slight contrast, hazing is more organized, more collective, and often sanctioned (expressly or implicitly) by authority and/or tradition. It is designed not to expel and ostracize individuals, but to include them through a shared ritual of suffering. The mentality is, We had to do this when we were rookies, now you have to do it so that you can be one of us. From everything I've read about the situation in Miami, and although I'm no psychologist, Jonathan Martin was hazed. He was not bullied. The same thing that happened to him happens in countless fraternities, in the military, and in many, many sports teams at the college and professional level. Richie Incognito is (or certainly was) a horrible person, but he was unfairly singled out for something that happens all over the place. Hazing is bad, don't get me wrong. But it's bad for different reasons than bullying is. I don't have more of a conclusion to offer about this, just making the point that the media missed the point. I mostly agree...I do think, however, that the lack of authenticity of the bullying story doesn't excuse his other behavior (fights, arrests, etc.); the guy, IMO, had/has a lot of growing up to do. I love this signing. I do think it's interesting that some posters(you know who you are) love incognito but think Marshawn is a punk. Incognito is a punk too. Why are some punks acceptable to some but other punks are just garbage? I don't mind having "behavioral problems" on my team, this isn't choir practice. We tried the "high character" angle, we were terrible during that era. I want the Bills to win, not be role models. If kids are out there looking up to players like Lynch and Incognito then there is a disconnect with the parenting. As far as adults who think that players with "issues" don't belong, I just don't get that. Who the hell cares? I'd say probably most posters on this board have had issues with character at some point or another, I'd even say most people here have committed a crime at one time in their life, whether it's small(speeding, shoplifting etc) or big(felonies such as drunk driving). I'm pretty sure no one here is qualified to judge another based on the others past. The self-righteousness here at times is frustrating. What I love about the signing is the "leave no stone unturned" mentality that it displays. I don't actually think Incognito is very good, so I'm not really excited about it. There are also some salient points in the rest of your post as well.
YoloinOhio Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting interview with Jeff Darlington who has covered him since his first days with the Dolphins. Sounds like he went to 6 weeks of inpatient treatment. On medication for anger management. He feels he will very motivated to prove himself and Rex is the right coach for him. His perspective is worth listening to. @JohnMurphyShow: Complete audio: Jeff Darlington: Incognito "a statement signing" http://t.co/6fkKcJhREi
ricojes Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I will agree with Gunner Bill, image is everything, it's starts with what's his name new HC, and look who the first player signed, no matter how you explain it bulling is bulling, but condone this policy and support it is just wrong, and is not positive image for the team and the WNY area, great team, championship teams, walk the walk, and play hard, but boasting of bullying is just as bad if not worst than all the other abuses that plague society, cheer a bully or bullying is sick, and not a policy I will support, They are going to Bully other teams on the field. I think people are using the word bully as it applies to children in school or something. it's used in a totally different context in football. The Bills will be bullies on the field not on social media or in the classroom (even RI, fingers crossed). Go Bills...Bully the hell out of the *Patsie's.... Edited February 10, 2015 by ricojes
Maury Ballstein Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I will agree with Gunner Bill, image is everything, it's starts with what's his name new HC, and look who the first player signed, no matter how you explain it bulling is bulling, but condone this policy and support it is just wrong, and is not positive image for the team and the WNY area, great team, championship teams, walk the walk, and play hard, but boasting of bullying is just as bad if not worst than all the other abuses that plague society, cheer a bully or bullying is sick, and not a policy I will support, Yay "bullying"is a catch phrase all the soccer moms can get behind. Everyone was fine for the last 50 years but the kids now all have to deal w cyber bullying on top of old school give me your lunch money bullying. Meh and horsecrap. Think of the kids !
Nanker Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 This isn't a garden party folks. It's American Football at the highest competitive level. If your self of steam gets easily bruised by what players do to/with each other off the field, maybe you could become a fan of a sewing circle. There are openings available. Not sayin' I love the guy, but I do admire the FO for trying to improve the team and imbue it with a tough personality. Rex ain't kitty-footing around. Neither is Whaley. Or Pegs. Or Roman. Or Kromer. So far 2015 has been full of surprises. It should be a fun year to be a Bills fan. Go Bills!
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting interview with Jeff Darlington who has covered him since his first days with the Dolphins. Sounds like he went to 6 weeks of inpatient treatment. On medication for anger management. He feels he will very motivated to prove himself and Rex is the right coach for him. His perspective is worth listening to. @JohnMurphyShow: Complete audio: Jeff Darlington: Incognito "a statement signing" http://t.co/6fkKcJhREi That was a nice listen. Thanks Yolo
GunnerBill Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 No offense, but anyone who took that report at face value is a sucker IMO. No offence but anyone who tries to undermine that report has an agenda to exonerate Incognito.
eball Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 This isn't a garden party folks. It's American Football at the highest competitive level. If your self of steam gets easily bruised by what players do to/with each other off the field, maybe you could become a fan of a sewing circle. There are openings available. Not sayin' I love the guy, but I do admire the FO for trying to improve the team and imbue it with a tough personality. Rex ain't kitty-footing around. Neither is Whaley. Or Pegs. Or Roman. Or Kromer. So far 2015 has been full of surprises. It should be a fun year to be a Bills fan. Go Bills! Why do I giggle like a schoolgirl every time I read that?
FireChan Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I love this signing. I do think it's interesting that some posters(you know who you are) love incognito but think Marshawn is a punk. Incognito is a punk too. Why are some punks acceptable to some but other punks are just garbage? I don't mind having "behavioral problems" on my team, this isn't choir practice. We tried the "high character" angle, we were terrible during that era. I want the Bills to win, not be role models. If kids are out there looking up to players like Lynch and Incognito then there is a disconnect with the parenting. As far as adults who think that players with "issues" don't belong, I just don't get that. Who the hell cares? I'd say probably most posters on this board have had issues with character at some point or another, I'd even say most people here have committed a crime at one time in their life, whether it's small(speeding, shoplifting etc) or big(felonies such as drunk driving) let's remember that just because you didn't get caught doesn't mean you're not a criminal. I'm pretty sure no one here is qualified to judge another based on the others past. The self-righteousness here at times is frustrating. It's probably because a hit and run is different from name-calling.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Why do I giggle like a schoolgirl every time I read that? Must be the reference to the sewing circle. Tho I hear those can be pretty tough. Buckle on your thimble. Edited February 10, 2015 by Hopeful
Recommended Posts