Webster Guy Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 We should know as Bills fans, Marshawn Lynch is being overrated as the short yardage master by the rest of the football community. Everyone is acting like it was such a no-brainer. He was only 1 for 5 at the goal line this season for the Seahawks. He isn't great at the one yard run and never has been. His strength is yards after contact and a shifty, unorthodox power running style but only if he gets the hole or catches the ball in space. His weakness is dancing behind the line, unsure of what to do when there's no hole, which there wouldn't have been if they'd handed him the ball in that situation. On the first drive in a 3rd and 1 situation they tried Marshawn and he got stuffed behind the line. I think the same thing would have happened. Throwing the ball on a Russell Wilson rollout where he could see everything and just throw it away if there was nobody open would have been a better play, or even a Wilson sneak on a quick snap, but Marshawn wasn't getting in. The Pats had their goal line big boys in, and they were ready for Lynch. That's why the OC and the head coach called the pass. The coaches real mistake was burning a timeout with 2 minutes left because they couldn't get in the personnel and run a play in despite having 30 seconds to do so. If they had 2 timeouts down there, then they could have tried a run without burning their last timeout. Because they only had one left, it meant they HAD to throw a pass at least once if they didn't get in on the run. That was the real issue here, poor game management by Carroll and/or the OC.
thebandit27 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 We should know as Bills fans, Marshawn Lynch is being overrated as the short yardage master by the rest of the football community. Everyone is acting like it was such a no-brainer. He was only 1 for 5 at the goal line this season for the Seahawks. He isn't great at the one yard run and never has been. His strength is yards after contact and a shifty, unorthodox power running style but only if he gets the hole or catches the ball in space. His weakness is dancing behind the line, unsure of what to do when there's no hole, which there wouldn't have been if they'd handed him the ball in that situation. On the first drive in a 3rd and 1 situation they tried Marshawn and he got stuffed behind the line. I think the same thing would have happened. Throwing the ball on a Russell Wilson rollout where he could see everything and just throw it away if there was nobody open would have been a better play, or even a Wilson sneak on a quick snap, but Marshawn wasn't getting in. The Pats had their goal line big boys in, and they were ready for Lynch. That's why the OC and the head coach called the pass. The coaches real mistake was burning a timeout with 2 minutes left because they couldn't get in the personnel and run a play in despite having 30 seconds to do so. If they had 2 timeouts down there, then they could have tried a run without burning their last timeout. Because they only had one left, it meant they HAD to throw a pass at least once if they didn't get in on the run. That was the real issue here, poor game management by Carroll and/or the OC. No...they should have run the ball without question. Lynch is their best player and should have the ball in that scenario, and that's without any regard for the fact that they needed to keep the clock moving. Run, run, pass, followed by a timeout, is the only play-calling sequence that (a) puts the ball in the hands of your best player 2 out of 3 plays, and (b) manages the clock properly to leave enough time for a 4th down play without giving the opponent time to move down the field after a score. Both coaches made glaring mistakes in the final minute.
Proteus Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 They got 4 yards on first down after an incredible reception that tore the heart out of the Pats and left them reeling. If the Seahawks coaches are smart you get up and run the exact same play you did on first down (probably better if you run it to the other side) while the defense is trying to get set and you walk into the endzone with about 35 seconds left and rely on your defense to hold. Easy, easy call.
Webster Guy Posted February 2, 2015 Author Posted February 2, 2015 No...they should have run the ball without question. Lynch is their best player and should have the ball in that scenario, and that's without any regard for the fact that they needed to keep the clock moving. Run, run, pass, followed by a timeout, is the only play-calling sequence that (a) puts the ball in the hands of your best player 2 out of 3 plays, and (b) manages the clock properly to leave enough time for a 4th down play without giving the opponent time to move down the field after a score. Both coaches made glaring mistakes in the final minute. they couldn't run run pass with one timeout and 26 seconds on the clock.
jahbonas Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 The Patriots were the 2nd worst team in NFL this year at defending short runs defined as 3rd/4th down and less than 2
Cleveland Rocks? Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 WUT. They have a guy called Beast Mode and a QB who can run and they throw a slant from the 1 yd line with 26 sec left to win the SB? They were more worried about giving the ball back to Brady. They played scared and deserved to lose the game.
thebandit27 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 they couldn't run run pass with one timeout and 26 seconds on the clock. Run on first down (which they did), run on second down (they didn't), call a timeout, pass. Run, run, pass. No problem doing so whatsoever.
GOBILLS78 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 I thought they'd go bootleg there. Wilson would either score or come close after faking it to Lynch. Even if they didn't score they still have two more shots. Hindsight is amazing.
Billsfan1972 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 What NE was doing not calling a timeout with 1:02 to go after Lynch got it down to the 1 made no sense either. Then Seattle lining up with an empty backfield and no choice but to pass was ridiculous. You line up for a run and have options galore with Wilson as the QB and Lynch in backfield. Plenty of time and 3 plays to score. Add to that they threw into a crown (the middle) was asinine.....
Proteus Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 I thought they'd go bootleg there. Wilson would either score or come close after faking it to Lynch. Even if they didn't score they still have two more shots. Hindsight is amazing. Hindsight is amazing? Please! You are seriously going to try the hindsight excuse on this one. So basically nobody can criticize anything because "hindsight is 20/20." So I could be an NFL head coach and run the ball on every play of the season and when the team finishes 0-16, I will just say hindsight is 20/20.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 We should know as Bills fans, Marshawn Lynch is being overrated as the short yardage master by the rest of the football community. Everyone is acting like it was such a no-brainer. He was only 1 for 5 at the goal line this season for the Seahawks. He isn't great at the one yard run and never has been. His strength is yards after contact and a shifty, unorthodox power running style but only if he gets the hole or catches the ball in space. His weakness is dancing behind the line, unsure of what to do when there's no hole, which there wouldn't have been if they'd handed him the ball in that situation. On the first drive in a 3rd and 1 situation they tried Marshawn and he got stuffed behind the line. I think the same thing would have happened. Throwing the ball on a Russell Wilson rollout where he could see everything and just throw it away if there was nobody open would have been a better play, or even a Wilson sneak on a quick snap, but Marshawn wasn't getting in. The Pats had their goal line big boys in, and they were ready for Lynch. That's why the OC and the head coach called the pass. The coaches real mistake was burning a timeout with 2 minutes left because they couldn't get in the personnel and run a play in despite having 30 seconds to do so. If they had 2 timeouts down there, then they could have tried a run without burning their last timeout. Because they only had one left, it meant they HAD to throw a pass at least once if they didn't get in on the run. That was the real issue here, poor game management by Carroll and/or the OC. Should have signed Frank Summers
NoSaint Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 WUT. They have a guy called Beast Mode and a QB who can run and they throw a slant from the 1 yd line with 26 sec left to win the SB? They were more worried about giving the ball back to Brady. They played scared and deserved to lose the game. i dont think throwing there is playing scared..... it was an aggressive call that kept the playbook open down the line. i dont see how throwing that ball is "being worried about giving the ball back to brady"
GOBILLS78 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Hindsight is amazing? Please! You are seriously going to try the hindsight excuse on this one. So basically nobody can criticize anything because "hindsight is 20/20." So I could be an NFL head coach and run the ball on every play of the season and when the team finishes 0-16, I will just say hindsight is 20/20. Who said you can't criticize anything? Did you somehow completely miss the first two sentences of my post, where I said what I would have done differently?
Not at the table Karlos Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Pats* allowed something like 5 tds on 6 carries from less than 2 yards in the playoffs.
Proteus Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Who said you can't criticize anything? Did you somehow completely miss the first two sentences of my post, where I said what I would have done differently? No I read them but what is with the hindsight is amazing? I really don't see how that can be read any other way than a defense of the play call.
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 If I was calling the plays in that situation with 2nd and goal at the 1 I would have run Lynch 3 straight times if necessary. I didn't see the game clock as inhibiting doing this. And if the Patriots stopped me then I'd be able to say we gave it our best shot and they stopped us and they deserved the victory. I could live with the outcome without any reservations or doubt whatsoever. And I'd feel absolutely no need to gave the second guessers any type of explanation. But there's no way around it, the way they lost leaves you feeling they gave the game away.
GOBILLS78 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 No I read them but what is with the hindsight is amazing? I really don't see how that can be read any other way than a defense of the play call. Because it's easy for people like us to say what we would have done in that situation. I certainly have not called plays for the Seahawks this year. I don't know what's inside the coach's mind when he makes that decision. I do know that he's not a complete moron. They called a play they thought would work and it failed. All the criticism they're getting is completely fair -- too many things can go wrong throwing it in that situation -- but sometimes *$ happens, folks. I'm not sure had the play worked that we would hear many people today saying "Ooooh! They won despite taking that huge risk in throwing the ball there!" Nah, we'd just know they won. That's football. Easy to second-guess.
KD in CA Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Pats* allowed something like 5 tds on 6 carries from less than 2 yards in the playoffs. Plus, they were tired. You need to consider game context when looking at stats. As running teams frequently do, Seattle softened up the defense as the game progressed, so that by Q4 they were running with consistent success.
Proteus Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Because it's easy for people like us to say what we would have done in that situation. I certainly have not called plays for the Seahawks this year. I don't know what's inside the coach's mind when he makes that decision. I do know that he's not a complete moron. They called a play they thought would work and it failed. All the criticism they're getting is completely fair -- too many things can go wrong throwing it in that situation -- but sometimes *$ happens, folks. I'm not sure had the play worked that we would hear many people today saying "Ooooh! They won despite taking that huge risk in throwing the ball there!" Nah, we'd just know they won. That's football. Easy to second-guess. Ok, so you are defending the pass with the hindsight is 20/20 excuse. Just like I thought. Sorry man but this isn't it's easy to criticize after the fact situation. The play call was horrendous and everyone I was watching the Super Bowl with was asking what are they doing when they lined up in the shotgun spread. Just like 99% of the football watching world. It was an obvious mistake after the play and just as obvious before the play. No hindsight needed here. Edited February 2, 2015 by Proteus
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