Rams after Foles?

[Deranged Rhino]

Has anyone considered that Mariota might not be the first pick? He's got question marks. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Leonard Williams went first overall.

 

 

I'm with you, no way Mariota goes #1. I think he could slip to the early teens baring a trade up for him. I saw a mock recently where he slipped to Philly at 20 and it didn't seem all that crazy (I don't think that will happen, but if he makes it past the Jests he could free fall). He's got tools (size, athleticism, a decent arm) but he's got loads of question marks about his ability to read defenses. The Championship game hurt his stock, I don't care what people say, it hurt his stock a lot.

 

Winston goes 1 if he passes his background checks, Williams is a good alternative though I think he ends up in Tennessee with the 2nd pick. I'd hate to see Williams go to Jacksonville (though it's possible) because he'd make that front nastier than it already is, but there's no way they pass on him if he's sitting there at 3. Williams is a monster.

[Nanker]

Bradford's knees are made of paper mache

Don't forget he separated his shoulder in his kallage game and didn't throw at the combine.

 

 

I agree with you up until the point about Sanchez. I want no part of Sanchez, he's a turn over machine. I'd rather roll into the season with EJ and Tuel than Sanchez.

 

I hope it doesn't get to that low a level, but yes - keep Sackchez outta here.

It's funny how we hate our own players yet make excuses for others. Bradford has a 6.29 ypa. Captain Checkdown has a 6.5 ypa. Bradford has a QB rating of 79.3 for his career. EJ, who has played 14 games, has a 78.5. In "breakout" season, Bradford has a QBR of 48. He beat bad teams and put up numbers in garbage time. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13197/sam-bradford

 

I think Bradford is a very average NFL Qb who is hyped up more because of his draft status. Given his injury history and probable price tag, he is a giant risk. And again, teams don't trade guys they can believe be a franchise QB.

I agree with that.

[Maury Ballstein]

NFL.com "guru" has Marriotta falling to 18 at Chiefs fwiw.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If, as you point out, "there are two QB needy teams at #1 and #2," then maybe Foles to anywhere is just smoke.

 

Smoke designed to raise Foles' value.

 

Because Kelly has to trade Foles (or Sanchize) + stuff to either the team at #1 or the team at #2.

 

Erm, Kelly can't trade Sanchize. He played on a 1 year deal in 2014 and will become a FA

[Hapless Bills Fan]

So here we are back to square one: you really think that Manuel will ever achieve the level of play that Foles has displayed the last couple years? I will bet you anything he doesn't.

 

Look, chaps. There aren't a lot of great options at QB. There simply aren't. Any FA QB who may be available are decidedly mediocre, or have track records of injury + mediocrity.

There are a few young QB who may or may not be available for trade, and the smart money says we would need to cough up something pretty juicy to contend for them. And there's the usual crop of dark-horse draft picks.

 

Whatever we do, it's clear we need to have major investment in improving the OL so that we can 1) run at will 2) keep whomever we get at QB vertical and uninjured.

 

All that being said, I find it puzzling the vehemence with which some fans insist on EJ's suckitude.

 

In his first year (6 games), Foles looked promising, but ordinary (60.4% completions, 6 TD, 5 INT, 6.0 AY/A). This year, 59.8% completions, 13 TD, 10 INT, 6.4 AY/A

In one year, 2013, Foles looked like Franchise-boy, with those 27 TD/2 INT, 64% completions, 10.5 AY/A.

 

The truth is, we have no idea if FOLES will ever again achieve the level of play that he displayed in 2013, or if it was some kind of fluke "career year" (or portion of year) that career-meh QB have sometimes.

 

With regard to 2012 and 2014, I see no reason to think EJ couldn't display a similar level of play, because he already has. I'm not even sure he regressed last year - progressed, no, but if you look at his rookie year he was a streaky boy, with good games and sucky games, often a couple of good games followed by a couple of sucky games. So yeah, overall his averages aren't far off of 2012 and 2014 Foles, and if you look at the game logs you can see that he has occasional games where a glimpse of "man" can be seen, followed by "meh" games.

 

Which returns me to my original question, why are you so persuaded and vehement about the intrinsic suckiness of EJ and the impossibility of mild improvement?

Edited January 27, 2015 by Hopeful

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Look, chaps. There aren't a lot of great options at QB. There simply aren't. Any FA QB who may be available are decidedly mediocre, or have track records of injury + mediocrity.

There are a few young QB who may or may not be available for trade, and the smart money says we would need to cough up something pretty juicy to contend for them. And there's the usual crop of dark-horse draft picks.

 

Whatever we do, it's clear we need to have major investment in improving the OL so that we can 1) run at will 2) keep whomever we get at QB vertical and uninjured.

 

All that being said, I find it puzzling the vehemence with which some fans insist on EJ's suckitude.

 

In his first year (6 games), Foles looked promising, but ordinary (60.4% completions, 6 TD, 5 INT, 6.0 AY/A). This year, 59.8% completions, 13 TD, 10 INT, 6.4 AY/A

In one year, 2013, Foles looked like Franchise-boy, with those 27 TD/2 INT, 64% completions, 10.5 AY/A.

 

The truth is, we have no idea if FOLES will ever again achieve the level of play that he displayed in 2013, or if it was some kind of fluke "career year" (or portion of year) that career-meh QB have sometimes.

 

With regard to 2012 and 2014, I see no reason to think EJ couldn't display a similar level of play, because he already has. I'm not even sure he regressed last year - progressed, no, but if you look at his rookie year he was a streaky boy, with good games and sucky games, often a couple of good games followed by a couple of sucky games. So yeah, overall his averages aren't far off of 2012 and 2014 Foles, and if you look at the game logs you can see that he has occasional games where a glimpse of "man" can be seen, followed by "meh" games.

 

Which returns me to my original question, why are you so persuaded and vehement about the intrinsic suckiness of EJ and the impossibility of mild improvement?

Good post. I also wonder how Foles would look if he was developed under Marrone/ Hackett (as his OC and QB coach) and how Manuel would be under KElly.

[BuffaloHokie13]

I definitely don't think a Run First, play action oriented offense with half field reads is going to hurt EJ's performance

[Wsam4031]

As much as it kills me to say it I would rather see EJ, Without Maron telling him not to run, than Sanchez or Bradford. Ej might only throw 4 or 5 yards but he doesnt turn the ball over like Sanchez does. It remains to be seen if ej can stay healthy just like Bradford. We know Bradford just cant stay healthy and will be injured for whomever gets him. Id rather see Foles in here for a minimal contract competing with EJ for the starting spot. The fact is our options at QB Blow right now. There is a reason teams dont let franchise qb's go and we have all these scrubs to pick from. None of these options are good

[Heitz]

Biggest upside of signing Sam Bradford, all of the Bills fans in Bradford, PA that get a jersey with our hometown on it!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

 

Look, chaps. There aren't a lot of great options at QB. There simply aren't. Any FA QB who may be available are decidedly mediocre, or have track records of injury + mediocrity.

There are a few young QB who may or may not be available for trade, and the smart money says we would need to cough up something pretty juicy to contend for them. And there's the usual crop of dark-horse draft picks.

 

Whatever we do, it's clear we need to have major investment in improving the OL so that we can 1) run at will 2) keep whomever we get at QB vertical and uninjured.

 

All that being said, I find it puzzling the vehemence with which some fans insist on EJ's suckitude.

 

In his first year (6 games), Foles looked promising, but ordinary (60.4% completions, 6 TD, 5 INT, 6.0 AY/A). This year, 59.8% completions, 13 TD, 10 INT, 6.4 AY/A

In one year, 2013, Foles looked like Franchise-boy, with those 27 TD/2 INT, 64% completions, 10.5 AY/A.

 

The truth is, we have no idea if FOLES will ever again achieve the level of play that he displayed in 2013, or if it was some kind of fluke "career year" (or portion of year) that career-meh QB have sometimes.

 

With regard to 2012 and 2014, I see no reason to think EJ couldn't display a similar level of play, because he already has. I'm not even sure he regressed last year - progressed, no, but if you look at his rookie year he was a streaky boy, with good games and sucky games, often a couple of good games followed by a couple of sucky games. So yeah, overall his averages aren't far off of 2012 and 2014 Foles, and if you look at the game logs you can see that he has occasional games where a glimpse of "man" can be seen, followed by "meh" games.

 

Which returns me to my original question, why are you so persuaded and vehement about the intrinsic suckiness of EJ and the impossibility of mild improvement?

I disagree that their averages are similar. Foles has a 6.87 ANY/A and EJ is at 5.07. I agree we shouldn't just give up on him. But, what is wrong with wanting better?options?

[maddenboy]

 

Which returns me to my original question, why are you so persuaded and vehement about the intrinsic suckiness of EJ and the impossibility of mild improvement?

 

2 reasons (if i may speak for at least a small portion of the group).

 

First, we dont really care about stats. Like the posts who want us to look at P.Manning's first year stats, blah blah. When Foles was good, he was hot. Making good throws. With confidence. Leading the squad. Looking occasionally to 2nd and 3rd reads (although there isnt that much of that in Kelly's offense). EJ has not shown any of that. 2 QBs can throw for 60% completion, and finish 12-4 and 3-13, respectively.

 

Second, we dont want to wait around to see if, maybe, we can see some "mild improvement." This is why we were happy to have Orton last year. There's only 16 games per year. We dont have time to sit around and hope. "Show me something, EJ." "Show me you have what it takes to be a Franchise QB, irrespective of stats." And hurry up about it.

[SmokinES3]

Bradford is one injury away from retirement.

.

We all are...

[ndirish1978]

Talking up any of our realistic QB targets is kind of like putting a bow-tie on a turd. Barring a miracle trade for someone unexpected (after which people will invariably complain we gave up too much) we will see EJ at QB for the Bills again next year.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

2 reasons (if i may speak for at least a small portion of the group).

 

First, we dont really care about stats. Like the posts who want us to look at P.Manning's first year stats, blah blah. When Foles was good, he was hot. Making good throws. With confidence. Leading the squad. Looking occasionally to 2nd and 3rd reads (although there isnt that much of that in Kelly's offense). EJ has not shown any of that. 2 QBs can throw for 60% completion, and finish 12-4 and 3-13, respectively.

 

Second, we dont want to wait around to see if, maybe, we can see some "mild improvement." This is why we were happy to have Orton last year. There's only 16 games per year. We dont have time to sit around and hope. "Show me something, EJ." "Show me you have what it takes to be a Franchise QB, irrespective of stats." And hurry up about it.

 

I think if you look at the games, there have been games where EJ was throwing with confidence and looking past his first read. I think people who are determined "EJ Must Fail" for some mysterious reason of their own have a blank spot in their memory for the games where he did show flashes - for example the 2013 Carolina, 2nd Jets, Jax games where he looked pretty good and even the stats show 6.9, 10, 7.8 AY/A and high completion percentage. I think it's the same noted work phenomenon where "one aweshit wipes out 10 attaboys", amplified by the fact that like all rookies, EJ was very streaky and uneven his rookie year.

 

The gap is that the same people also look at another QB and have a blank spot in their memory for the part where he was "not hot" - the games where Foles had a completion percentage in the 40s and AY/A of 4-something or even 2.4 (yeah, it's happened). The principal difference is that Foles put together a string of good to great games in his 2nd season, and EJ has not done that - and has also had less chance to do that.

 

Stats can lie, but if you look at them carefully and think about what they mean, they correct for those mysterious blank spots in the memory.

 

I get it that fans don't want to "wait around and see" and want to say "we don't have time". But what are the alternatives? You can cherry-pick another QB's performance and say "let's trade the farm, whatever it takes, for the 2013 version of Foles (or Bradford. Or whoever)." But the reason one QB has a W/L of 12-4 and the other 3-13 is because of the "farm", the pieces around him. So you trade the farm, and you get the 2014 version of Foles, and then what? Throw him out, we don't want to wait and see, we don't have time?

 

So another strategy to make the playoffs is to build stellar defense and a stellar running game, and play to the strengths of whatever QB you have such that you go home with a W - meanwhile turning over every stone to make improvements at QB. It worked for Rex his first 2 years on the Jets, it worked for Harbaugh with Alex Smith, it's worked at times for Flacco and for Wilson.

 

I repeat: it puzzles me that posters are so persuaded and vehement about the intrinsic suckiness of EJ and the impossibility of mild improvement. Because mild improvement on what we saw in 2013 would potentially take us to playoffs with a strong defense. And what are the alternatives?

I disagree that their averages are similar. Foles has a 6.87 ANY/A and EJ is at 5.07. I agree we shouldn't just give up on him. But, what is wrong with wanting better?options?

 

Nothing is wrong with wanting better. We should want better! We deserve better, until we have Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers at QB. But who is available that we could realistically get that is Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers? And if someone like that were available, would we be able to get him without gutting the rest of the team that's needed for success?

 

You're correct on the AY/A overall, but if you look under the hood, you will see that EJ had games where his AY/A were quite nice - 7 and change, even 10 - and Foles has had games where his AY/A has been a mediocre 4 or a sucky 2.4. The difference is that Foles has managed to put together one great season (2013), and EJ has not (yet). The jury is out (IMO ) on whether EJ ever will, and the jury is out (again IMO) on whether Foles is The Man or had one magic year before defenses got tape on what Kelly was doing.

[Talley56]

Come on over to Buffalo, Mr. Bradford!

 

Foles is awful.

Foles >>> Bradford

 

At least I will say IMHO

 

But I also believe that neither would stand much of a chance if we don't improve the O-line.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Talley56