NFL Sting operation goes bad and backfires on the Goodell

[Mark80]

I think this will really spell the end of Goodell's tenure. He is a terrible commissioner and when will the owners figure that out? Does he handle anything well? His close ties to Kraft make this a no-win situation for him. Look at how he came down on Payton in New Orleans when he didn't know what was going on and none of that was illegal. How can the NFL not do the same for the Pats? Whoever did it, the organization was responsible for 11 or the 12 balls being altered while none of the Colts were altered.

He makes every single owner a crap load of money every single year, each year more than the year before. Until he has in impact on their pocketbooks in a negative way, he isn't going anywhere.

 

Yeah, i think Goodell needs to be replaced. The way he tries to rule players with an iron fist every time they show fun or personality compared to how poorly he manages real situations is just absurd.

 

I am not saying the Pats are innocent here, I am stating that if the PSI is so important then the NFL is very negligent in how it regulates and enforces it, and thats on them. Quite frankly, the truth is the PSI isn't very important and actually the limited range it has equates to not having an equal playing field for each QB. The PSI should be dictated by the QB, not the NFL. Its NOT an advantage if everyone can do it...but it can be a disadvantage to QBs with smaller hands and weaker grips if the PSI is too high just like its a disadvantage to guys like Aaron Rodgers when the PSI isn't high enough because his grip is stronger and his hands bigger.

 

There should be a min, that basically equates the ball having adequate air to be considered fully inflated which I would guess 10 PSI or 10.5 PSI is plenty. Everything above should be allowed. Its that simple. Again, not an advantage, its about the ball being equally comfortable in all QBs hands no matter size of hand or how hard they grip it.

And this statement is just ludicrous when compared to any other professional sport. Know what happens when you celebrate too much in baseball? You get a 95 mph fastball thrown at your back. Do it too many times and it comes at your head. Know what happens when you cross the line in hockey? Some 6'4" goon lays the smack down on you the next chance he gets, straight up punches you in the face over and over for a 5 minute penalty (that you'll most likely serve as well). NBA, you do it twice and you are thrown out of the game for 2 technical fouls.

 

People that say or believe the NFL is the "no fun league" need to really take a look at what other professional sports do to "fun." A $10K or $20k fine for someone making millions of dollars per year is nothing.

[CardinalScotts]

Honestly, this fiasco falls almost entirely on the NFL, not the Pats. F the Pats, but if I remove being biased, then it becomes clear the NFL is almost completely at fault here.

 

1. First off, there are NO real reports on this. The NFL hasn't confirmed much of anything, most of it are "leaked" reports. No one knows for sure how many balls, how much they varied, etc as nothing has been confirmed from what I can see from the NFL.

 

2. We have no idea if the Refs even check the PSI with a gauge. Very very possible, that some or many refs have just done the eye ball and squeeze test to make sure balls seem good rather than take the time to check each balls PSI with a gauge. In fact, Aaron Rodgers stating he OVER inflates them to the rules to see if the refs will deflate them strongly suggests that gauges are not always used and that part has been loosely enforced. If a gauge was used every time, Aaron wouldnt waste time over inflating them, not to mention the NFL would have told him to stop already.

 

3. The NFL doesn't check PSI before, during, and after a game unless there is a cause too. They supposedly check pre game, but even thats come into question just how religiously its checked with a gauge versus just feeling it out. So there is no way to know how common or uncommon it is that a balls PSI has naturally changed or been intentionally changed in every game played.

 

4. Current and past QBs have admitted to doing all kinds of things to the balls, yet none of that is getting any attention because the NFL wants this to go away.

 

5. The balls apparently have been checked in conditions with significant variables rather than consistent environments. If the PSI during the game is what matters, then all balls need to be checked on the field of play with game conditions.

 

6. The process now is for officials to check the balls then give them back to the ball boys and teams. If this is such an issue, why are the balls not checked just prior to kickoff and kept in a visible area that is controlled by the referees? Instead, they give them back to the teams where they can do whatever they want to them prior to game time. They could simply have a bin on each side of the field for each teams footballs isolated and visible until a ball is needed in which its grabbed by a ball boy and immediately given to a ref for play.

 

7. A range of 1 psi variance is really stupid in the first place. The QB should be able to adjust it as no QBs hands are the same. Some are very big, some are very small...some are strong, some aren't as strong. Grip varies, so there needs to be a wider range of variance to keep the playing field even. A guy like Aaron Rodgers has big strong hands and has an advantage with a higher PSI, he said so himself. So why does a QB with a lower grip strength and smaller hands have to use a stiffer ball that doesn't play to his grip as well? PSI should be set a min like 10.5 and anything above it is fine. Kicking balls should have a stricter factor as it does make a difference on how far you can kick it.

 

8. How do we know that Pats didn't inflate to the min PSI initially with a gauge that was off? Gauges are off all the time. They may have inflated to the min PSI allowable, but if their gauge was wrong then they are going to be off. And if the refs just squeeze tested, they wouldnt have noticed pre game until they used a gauge to check it after the INT.

 

Serioulsy, the balls had no impact on that game. In fact, NE played better with Indys balls then their own. Yet here we are with this stupid black cloud over the biggest game of the year. Its been grossly mishandled by the NFL and I suspect the NFL is putting so much energy into this because of a few reasons:

 

1. They looked so bad about not taking enough action with Ray Rice.

2. They know its their own negligence that has allowed this to take place in the first place.

3. Its the Pats, and the NFL always looks bad and still takes heat for how it handled spygate (another situation over blown because how bad it was handled).

 

None of this means the Pats did or didn't cheat...it means the NFL has screwed themselves so bad here that I seriously doubt there will ever be enough information to either prove their guilt or innocnence, and that is 100% why the NFL is at fault. If this is such an issue, they should have a significantly better process and system which wouldnt be hard to do at all.

huge difference between roughing up a football and taking air out...I'm more upset how less air leads to easier receptions and less fumbles

[Alphadawg7]

No you can't read.

They have already interviewed over 40. They will I imagine interview 60-80 since they havent interviewed any Patriots player or Bellichick or others yet. I have no idea how many of the 40 were members of the Pats organization, I imagine some. But no players.

 

You keep contradicting yourself. You said the NFL can't say anything they know or what they are investigating in the media because then the Pats will know. I responded and said how do you expect the Pats not to know when they are being questioned by the NFL. You responded and said that they haven't talked to any of the Pats players yet (something else we don't actually know)...and even if they haven't talked to the players, that doesn't mean that haven't talked to Patriots officials or members of the organization.

 

You then said verbatim "60-70-80" have been interviewed, something you made up, but said none the less. I then responded with how can that many people be interviewed and not one of them be part to the Pats organization.

 

Now you reply and say I can't read and now change your response again and now say 40 people have been interviewed, yet in your posts in this thread, you have not typed the number 40 once or spelled it out. In one post you claim a range of 60 to 80 HAVE been interviewed...now you say 40.

 

You also now admit you don't know if any or how many of those alleged 40 were with the Patriots. Yet its been stated publicly several times that the Pats are fully cooperating with the investigation...so how can that be if no one is talking to them or asking questions? How can someone cooperate and at the same time not participate?

 

So no offense, but you are just furthering my point about how the NFLs handling has fueled these kinds fact less claims and boasts throughout the media that you are doing yourself.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

You keep contradicting yourself. You said the NFL can't say anything they know or what they are investigating in the media because then the Pats will know. I responded and said how do you expect the Pats not to know when they are being questioned by the NFL. You responded and said that they haven't talked to any of the Pats players yet (something else we don't actually know)...and even if they haven't talked to the players, that doesn't mean that haven't talked to Patriots officials or members of the organization.

 

You then said verbatim "60-70-80" have been interviewed, something you made up, but said none the less. I then responded with how can that many people be interviewed and not one of them be part to the Pats organization.

 

Now you reply and say I can't read and now change your response again and now say 40 people have been interviewed, yet in your posts in this thread, you have not typed the number 40 once or spelled it out. In one post you claim a range of 60 to 80 HAVE been interviewed...now you say 40.

 

You also now admit you don't know if any or how many of those alleged 40 were with the Patriots. Yet its been stated publicly several times that the Pats are fully cooperating with the investigation...so how can that be if no one is talking to them or asking questions? How can someone cooperate and at the same time not participate?

 

So no offense, but you are just furthering my point about how the NFLs handling has fueled these kinds fact less claims and boasts throughout the media that you are doing yourself.

You can't even quote right. I said "because they are interviewing 60-70-80 people." The 40+ they already have, which was reported a few days ago and for sure has risen since, and since they haven't spoken to Pats players or Bellichick, and I assume more Patriots personnel yet, that number is likely to be 60-80.

 

I said the NFL can't say PUBLICLY what they know, because they haven't spoken to Brady and the players yet. It would be counter productive for them to do so. That is obvious why it would be an advantage to Brady and the Patriots players and Bellichick to know everything the NFL knows before they are questioned.

 

I didnt contradict myself at all, it's been very consistent. And easy to understand.

[RunTheBall]

At this point, i could care less if the Pats* are proven to have cheated yet again.

 

I simply LOVE the fact that another Super Bowl run is tainted, win or lose. The entire "Dynasty" has on humongous asterisk next to it.

 

It couldn't happen to a more deserving band-wagon, douche-bag fan base than that of the Pats*.

 

LOVE IT

 

RTB

[Slack_in_MA]

 

Yeah, i think Goodell needs to be replaced. The way he tries to rule players with an iron fist every time they show fun or personality compared to how poorly he manages real situations is just absurd.

 

I am not saying the Pats are innocent here, I am stating that if the PSI is so important then the NFL is very negligent in how it regulates and enforces it, and thats on them. Quite frankly, the truth is the PSI isn't very important and actually the limited range it has equates to not having an equal playing field for each QB. The PSI should be dictated by the QB, not the NFL. Its NOT an advantage if everyone can do it...but it can be a disadvantage to QBs with smaller hands and weaker grips if the PSI is too high just like its a disadvantage to guys like Aaron Rodgers when the PSI isn't high enough because his grip is stronger and his hands bigger.

 

There should be a min, that basically equates the ball having adequate air to be considered fully inflated which I would guess 10 PSI or 10.5 PSI is plenty. Everything above should be allowed. Its that simple. Again, not an advantage, its about the ball being equally comfortable in all QBs hands no matter size of hand or how hard they grip it.

Or maybe the minimum should be 12.5 and QBs with smaller hands are at a disadvantage. Why should football be any different than any other sport in having a regulation ball that's uniform for all?

[Kelly the Dog]

At this point, i could care less if the Pats* are proven to have cheated yet again.

 

I simply LOVE the fact that another Super Bowl run is tainted, win or lose. The entire "Dynasty" has on humongous asterisk next to it.

 

It couldn't happen to a more deserving band-wagon, douche-bag fan base than that of the Pats*.

 

LOVE IT

 

RTB

That's surely the best part of it to me. The deflated balls obviously didn't help them in that game. But they will always be thought of as cheaters.

[DC Tom]

That's surely the best part of it to me. The deflated balls obviously didn't help them in that game. But they will always be thought of as cheaters.

 

It almost makes one hope they win the Superbowl. If they lose, people will consider it appropriate karma and forget about it. But if they win, they'll always be considered cheaters - and hopefully it'll be the final straw for Goodell.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

It almost makes one hope they win the Superbowl.

No, it doesn't.

[Alphadawg7]

Or maybe the minimum should be 12.5 and QBs with smaller hands are at a disadvantage. Why should football be any different than any other sport in having a regulation ball that's uniform for all?

 

Because the min and max are supposed to be in place for equality...but no 2 players are equal.

huge difference between roughing up a football and taking air out...I'm more upset how less air leads to easier receptions and less fumbles

 

Im not validating the Pats, I am stating the NFL is why this has happened. Its their loose governing of this rule and lack of accountability for how it checks and maintains the integrity of this rule is a joke.

 

They have made it worse by how they have handled this. The fact that the biggest story about the biggest game of the year in all of American Professional Sports is about a game played a week ago is a joke. They should have addressed it rather than let the media run wild and make all kinds of absurds false stories up about it to the point we don't know what is true and what isn't true anymore.

 

Many of the "leaked" facts are now contradicted by new leaked "facts" and reports or public statements by those implicated like Jim Harbaugh and D'Qwell Jackson in the story.

 

This story is minuscule, had no impact on the game, and could have been handled in a manner that prevented it from it being so massively over blown. We don't even know how many balls, by how much, etc were off. There are stories saying 11 of 12 were 2 PSI off, now stories saying one was 2 PSI off and the others were off nearly as much. Its ridiculous how this has gotten out of hand, and thats the NFLs fault on all levels, starting with the lame process they have with regulating the integrity of the ball.

 

F the Pats, but man, the NFL and Goodell look really stupid right now...and its a fitting end to the season for the train wreck Goodell has been this year.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Alphadawg7

[Slack_in_MA]

 

Because the min and max are supposed to be in place for equality...but no 2 players are equal.

 

[HamSandwhich]

 

Because the min and max are supposed to be in place for equality...but no 2 players are equal.

 

Im not validating the Pats, I am stating the NFL is why this has happened. Its their loose governing of this rule and lack of accountability for how it checks and maintains the integrity of this rule is a joke.

 

They have made it worse by how they have handled this. The fact that the biggest story about the biggest game of the year in all of American Professional Sports is about a game played a week ago is a joke. They should have addressed it rather than let the media run wild and make all kinds of absurds false stories up about it to the point we don't know what is true and what isn't true anymore.

 

Many of the "leaked" facts are now contradicted by new leaked "facts" and reports or public statements by those implicated like Jim Harbaugh and D'Qwell Jackson in the story.

 

This story is minuscule, had no impact on the game, and could have been handled in a manner that prevented it from it being so massively over blown. We don't even know how many balls, by how much, etc were off. There are stories saying 11 of 12 were 2 PSI off, now stories saying one was 2 PSI off and the others were off nearly as much. Its ridiculous how this has gotten out of hand, and thats the NFLs fault on all levels, starting with the lame process they have with regulating the integrity of the ball.

 

F the Pats, but man, the NFL and Goodell look really stupid right now...and its a fitting end to the season for the train wreck Goodell has been this year.

The problem with this thinking is, what about the defensive players? They aren't playing with that type of ball, and I don't think there is a rule that a team has to disclose what the QB plays with so that they can practice with that kind of ball. They have to keep it within the realm of a "normal football" one would think.

[Alphadawg7]

The problem with this thinking is, what about the defensive players? They aren't playing with that type of ball, and I don't think there is a rule that a team has to disclose what the QB plays with so that they can practice with that kind of ball. They have to keep it within the realm of a "normal football" one would think.

 

See this point you made is the problem with this story overall. The impact on the game in relation to ball PSI is no where near the levels being perceived, especially with defensive players.

[boyst]

I do not understand this thread? This thread is no different then the other deflation thread?

[Ted William's frozen head]

At this point, i could care less if the Pats* are proven to have cheated yet again.

 

I simply LOVE the fact that another Super Bowl run is tainted, win or lose. The entire "Dynasty" has on humongous asterisk next to it.

 

It couldn't happen to a more deserving band-wagon, douche-bag fan base than that of the Pats*.

 

LOVE IT

 

RTB

When Brady retires, the entire lot of them will go back to being Giants fans.

[Kelly the Dog]

The league isn't even going to talk to Brady until after the Super Bowl.

[TheFunPolice]

This is an incredible time to he a Buffalo sports fan.

 

No moving rumors, new stadium coming, no more Toronto, Rex as HC

, Mc David or Eichel coming in...

 

Really, is a NE* SB win a large price to pay?

 

It's morning in Buffalo sports. It's about to strike midnight for the Pats*

[Alphadawg7]

This is an incredible time to he a Buffalo sports fan.

 

No moving rumors, new stadium coming, no more Toronto, Rex as HC

, Mc David or Eichel coming in...

 

Really, is a NE* SB win a large price to pay?

 

It's morning in Buffalo sports. It's about to strike midnight for the Pats*

 

yup agreed

[TheFunPolice]

What I wrote above plus watching NFL Network replay old 49er Super Bowls has made me more at peace with a Pats* SB win...

 

They are at the end. They will be one of the all time great teams but no way the GOAT.

 

Also, if we don't give the winner credit what about when our team wins it?

[Thurman#1]

The writer calling it a sting is a joke.

 

That implies that the refs knew in advance it might happen and deliberately set the stage to allow it and catch them at it. Which never happened.

The problem with this thinking is, what about the defensive players? They aren't playing with that type of ball, and I don't think there is a rule that a team has to disclose what the QB plays with so that they can practice with that kind of ball. They have to keep it within the realm of a "normal football" one would think.

 

 

The defensive players aren't doing stuff with the ball that requires pinpoint control. Trying to smash it out of someone's hands, yeah. Running after it, yeah. Trying to knock it out of the air, yeah.

 

The only thing that comes close is trying to catch it on an interception and the level of control required is much more about just whether you put your hands in the right position than how deeply you can put your fingers into it as it is for the QB.

 

Really, only the QB has a major investment in the ball's inflation.