John from Riverside Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 yeah, why trade a 1st and 4th to trade up for WR in a draft that was deep in WRs They just didnt bring their crystal balls that day to the draft I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) yeah, why trade a 1st and 4th to trade up for WR in a draft that was deep in WRs Stupid time machine broke, supposedly Marrone broke it when he tried to travel to the future to see if he was going to get the Jets job if he opted out after the season. Edited January 26, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Matt Miller is the lead nfl draft writer for bleacher report. I have heard this same sentiment now for awhile but as we get closer to the draft I was wondering how it would shake out. He tweeted this today: @nfldraftscout: I'm not generally a pessimistic person, so let this sink in: This draft class is not very good. He's kind of pompous on twitter (btw he did not like EJ; was obsessed with Watkins) but he is always providing tons of info on draft prospects. I just think it's interesting that Whaley was not too protective of this year's draft picks. More than likely, he knew last year was the draft to hit on. Though Cyrus and Cyril haven't panned out yet, I don't know they won't especially with different scheme and coaching. Any draft gurus out there agree with Miller? not the greatests but there are always gems to find hopefully we get some I'm not a draft guru but I follow it pretty closely. This draft stinks. There are a couple of QB prospects, some good RBs and WRs as well as pass rushers. The depth is bad and I don't see a lot of franchise type guys. If Jameis and/or Mariota don't pan out out it could be a disaster. The RBs will probably end up to be the best position group IMO. no one drafts RBs like hte buffalo Bills I just texted my relative who is with another FO (not Bills) and he said at this point in time they do not have 32 players with first rd grades :/ Obviously that could change by draft time but geez. Whaley should have traded a few more picks to get Bortles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 This is an awful class . Whaley and his team understood this last year, remember a ton of underclassman came out. In the end he valued last year 2 against this years one Lets see if the pick pans out vs number 19 this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 This is an awful class . Whaley and his team understood this last year, remember a ton of underclassman came out. In the end he valued last year 2 against this years one Lets see if the pick pans out vs number 19 this year he did value last year's 2, but Cleveland's GM said after the fact they were not going to do the trade unless it included the 1st rounder this year. So he didn't have the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 ODB is the thing that makes the trade last year so bad to the "hindsight is 20/20" crowd. The narrative ignores that we likely would have taken Ebron (who struggled all year) or that it looks like Cleveland might have whiffed on Gilbert. The "draft was so deep at WR" ignores that guys like Matthews and Landry were able to make plays as afterthoughts in the defensive planning. As for '15 to '14, outside of Jameis' potential (which is accompanied by a myriad of off field concerns) and Leonard Williams, the next best guys are Cooper (who is built like Sammy but nowhere near Sammy's top gear in the speed/explosiveness department) and a couple of tweener DE/LBs a notch below Mack. Simply put Whaley thought we were very close to the playoffs and it turned out he was right. I don't see anyone questioning Sammy being a very good player, I just see the "yeah but you could have Beckham and a 1st" which is entirely hindsight as everyone had Beckham clearly a notch below the top prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 good year not to have a first round pick.....(laffin) No such thing. If you don't want the pick this year, trade it for one next year and some extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 They just didnt bring their crystal balls that day to the draft I guess Isn't that their job? If they're not better than an average GM at predicting exactly this kind of thing about the future, especially when it was widely considered a good year for WRs, we should replace them. The reason last year was considered a deep class was because a large number of really good early entrants registered for the draft, and that was especially true at WR, where non-seniors included Evans, Watkins, Marquise Lee, Beckham and Brandin Cooks. And this isn't hindsight, it was widely reported at the time, including here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981686-2014-nfl-draft-how-deep-is-every-position/page/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've felt this way for a while. I think the sheer number of guys who came out early last year has played a major part in that. I think this is a draft where you might pick up a good hybrid DE/OLB pass rusher or a good running back in the second round that will not be that different from a guy that went from 12-32 in the first round. If Hughes does not re-sign then both of those positions are in play for the Bills I think. I think in all other position groups last year's draft was stronger and had better depth. Quarterback I think is a little different. My board would have Mariota and Winston ahead of all the guys who went in the 1st and 2nd last year, but it would then have all 5 of last year's 1st and 2nd rounders before the third Quarterback this year. I do think the two year drought of a Quarterback going #1 overall will end this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No such thing. If you don't want the pick this year, trade it for one next year and some extra. If only it were that easy. Someone would have to have a good reason to give up another first rounder to move up in this draft.....and they would only move up to 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 ODB is the thing that makes the trade last year so bad to the "hindsight is 20/20" crowd. The narrative ignores that we likely would have taken Ebron (who struggled all year) or that it looks like Cleveland might have whiffed on Gilbert. The "draft was so deep at WR" ignores that guys like Matthews and Landry were able to make plays as afterthoughts in the defensive planning. As for '15 to '14, outside of Jameis' potential (which is accompanied by a myriad of off field concerns) and Leonard Williams, the next best guys are Cooper (who is built like Sammy but nowhere near Sammy's top gear in the speed/explosiveness department) and a couple of tweener DE/LBs a notch below Mack. Simply put Whaley thought we were very close to the playoffs and it turned out he was right. I don't see anyone questioning Sammy being a very good player, I just see the "yeah but you could have Beckham and a 1st" which is entirely hindsight as everyone had Beckham clearly a notch below the top prospects. The reason the "narrative" ignores the fact that "we likely would have taken Ebron" is that there's no particular evidence that it's true. It certainly is one of the possibilities, but no more than that. People on here have claimed that since Chris Brown thought so that it must be true, but Brown never claimed inside knowledge. It was just what he thought. One guy who has been very good at predicting the Bills process, so much so that the thought is that he must have sources, is Joe Buscaglia, and Buscaglia said before the draft that he had heard that if they didn't trade up it would likely be Ebron, Beckham or Zack Martin. How come you folks assume it would've been Ebron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If only it were that easy. Someone would have to have a good reason to give up another first rounder to move up in this draft.....and they would only move up to 19 It is that easy. It really is Find me a year where nobody traded a first for a first the next year. As the draft approaches teams get lusty over certain players. Especially GMs who feel they're on a short leash. Demand a huge edge in the deal and yeah, you'll have problems. Accept a reasonable deal, a first next year and a third or fourth this year and you'll almost certainly find someone to bite. Remember when the Pats kept churning that second first round pick to generate new picks for about five straight years before they finally drafted two guys in the first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The reason the "narrative" ignores the fact that "we likely would have taken Ebron" is that there's no particular evidence that it's true. It certainly is one of the possibilities, but no more than that. People on here have claimed that since Chris Brown thought so that it must be true, but Brown never claimed inside knowledge. It was just what he thought. One guy who has been very good at predicting the Bills process, so much so that the thought is that he must have sources, is Joe Buscaglia, and Buscaglia said before the draft that he had heard that if they didn't trade up it would likely be Ebron, Beckham or Zack Martin. How come you folks assume it would've been Ebron? because it fits the narrative they want. but like most things in the weak defense of watkins versus beckham, if they bothered to think thru it theyd realize it didnt. by all accounts ebron had a disappointing season -- by far worst among the highly drafted WRs/TEs. so saying the Bills rated him highly just supports the charge that bills didn't know how to properly assess WRs last year, overvaluing watkins too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 It is that easy. It really is Find me a year where nobody traded a first for a first the next year. As the draft approaches teams get lusty over certain players. Especially GMs who feel they're on a short leash. Demand a huge edge in the deal and yeah, you'll have problems. Accept a reasonable deal, a first next year and a third or fourth this year and you'll almost certainly find someone to bite. Remember when the Pats kept churning that second first round pick to generate new picks for about five straight years before they finally drafted two guys in the first? no, the 19th pick in this draft would not immediately generate a 1st rounder next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The reason the "narrative" ignores the fact that "we likely would have taken Ebron" is that there's no particular evidence that it's true. It certainly is one of the possibilities, but no more than that. People on here have claimed that since Chris Brown thought so that it must be true, but Brown never claimed inside knowledge. It was just what he thought. One guy who has been very good at predicting the Bills process, so much so that the thought is that he must have sources, is Joe Buscaglia, and Buscaglia said before the draft that he had heard that if they didn't trade up it would likely be Ebron, Beckham or Zack Martin. How come you folks assume it would've been Ebron? Yes, Ebron - Martin - Beckham are the ones most often cited as being linked to us. Ebron really struggled last year. Given the way Marrone treated a lot of what Whaley did, there's no guarantees Martin would have been used properly (ie shifted to guard) here and there's no guarantees he'd be near as good if we'd stuck him at RT. As for Beckham, it's been discussed thoroughly but the Giants force fed him to a level way beyond anything we did for Sammy. ODB is a great player, but if he were here with Orton playing not to get hurt and Sammy was with the Giants, does anyone really think the production would not have been flipped? ODB is so much revisionist history. When we were looking at him at #9 it was widely believed we were over valuing him. When the move was made for Sammy, no one was saying "we could have just sat at 9 and gotten an equal (or better) player in Beckham." EVERYONE had Sammy and Evans as a level above ODB as a prospect. We can complain all we want about Whaley screwing up if that's what you want to do, but 11 other teams valued players above ODB as well and the simple truth is the odds are very low we gave up a hall of famer at #19 this year to make sure we got the guy who was widely viewed as the #1 WR prospect, at very least 1A-B prospect. Knowing the Browns, the odds are also very low they'll be looking at us and laughing about this deal in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 EVERYONE had Sammy as a level above ODB as a prospect. Including, interestingly, the New York Giants. They had Watkins rated higher. They made an early decision that they were not willing to move up to where the Bills got and so focused on "who might be there." Get Sammy Watkins better Quarterback play, hope that he avoids injury and he will end up in the Hall. No doubt in my mind. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000458937/article/jerry-reese-giants-had-watkins-ahead-of-beckham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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