Kelly the Dog Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 I may have missed it when I read it but I recall the league being very vague on the particulars of the PSI component of the official's part in OK'ing the balls. Not in this game. They were very particular because they were looking for it.
Nihilist25 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Ummmm, the game happened BEFORE Belichick did the tests he just explained today. Assuming they didn't already know and weren't gaming the system (which they probably were), the Patriots should have known because they should have done the tests earlier considering the NFL doesn't/can't/shouldn't account for the peculiar rubbing techniques of each team and its effects on football PSI. The Patriots assume that obligation when they rub their footballs. Edited January 25, 2015 by Nihilist25
Pneumonic Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Not in this game. They were very particular because they were looking for it. Sorry, I am not following ..... the league was looking for what?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Sorry, I am not following ..... the league was looking for what? The league was already looking for them cheating before the game even started. That's why they took all the balls out at halftime. That was planned before the game started.
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 You guys just won't let it go. At the end of all this I think there's going to be a lot of embarassed people in the public eye who called them out as cheaters and liars, without any facts. Frankly, what Belichick said made sense. It made sense that he would insist on walking through the process so he could understand what happened, given the hoopla. In a nutshell he said the preparation process (vigorous rubbing) raises the PSI by about a pound. They are then provided to the officials who are asked to inflate to 12.5 PSI. All that done at room temp. Once out in game temps (colder), you lose not only the initial one pound due to prep, but also another half. So you can be down about one and a half pounds (to 11 PSI or so). I suspect this will be proven to be possible - depending on the ball prep process, and it is by far the most probable explanation. Why weren't the Colts balls low too? I have to say that's a stupid question. Maybe they don't heat up the ball temp as much when they prep the balls, if at all. Maybe they ask for their balls to be set at the high side (13.5 PSI). cool story bro
Pneumonic Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Assuming they didn't already know and weren't gaming the system (which they probably were), the Patriots should have known because they should have done the tests earlier considering the NFL doesn't/can't/shouldn't account for the peculiar rubbing techniques of each team and its effects on football PSI. The Patriots assume that obligation when they rub their footballs. Assuming they didn't already know and weren't gaming the system (which they probably were), the Patriots should have known because they should have done the tests earlier considering the NFL doesn't/can't/shouldn't account for the peculiar rubbing techniques of each team and its effects on football PSI. The Patriots assume that obligation when they rub their footballs. Both of your points are presuming they did do something ahead of time. That's the entire problem in debating this topic. Many people are working from a presumed state of guilt mindset. The league has never stated that the Pats are guilty of anything. You may well be wrong in your presumptions.
Nihilist25 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 I may have missed it when I read it but I recall the league being very vague on the particulars of the PSI component of the official's part in OK'ing the balls. First King posted something which led to questions. Then the NFL issued something more definitive (can't find the link on NFL.com anymore) which is copied at this URL: http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2015/01/23/nfl-release-statement-on-investigation-into-deflategate/
Pneumonic Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 The league was already looking for them cheating before the game even started. That's why they took all the balls out at halftime. That was planned before the game started. And you know this, how exactly? Let's play along anyhow. If they league setup the Pats as you suggest, and the Pats did in fact cheat, then surely the league must have easily been able to prove it? Unless they botched a simple setup sting and are even more incompetent than they already appear to be.
Nihilist25 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Both of your points are presuming they did do something ahead of time. That's the entire problem in debating this topic. Many people are working from a presumed state of guilt mindset. The league has never stated that the Pats are guilty of anything. You may well be wrong in your presumptions. Nope. My points indicate that if they didn't do certain things ahead of time they should have. Edited January 25, 2015 by Nihilist25
Pneumonic Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 First King posted something which led to questions. Then the NFL issued something more definitive (can't find the link on NFL.com anymore) which is copied at this URL: http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2015/01/23/nfl-release-statement-on-investigation-into-deflategate/ King isn't an NFL official and his opinion is no more absolute than any number of others who say that NFL officials simply give the balls a "squeeze" test. ey if they don;t have plans to cheat? Nope. My points indicate that if they didn't do certain things ahead of time they should have. Why would they if they don't have intentions of cheating?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 And you know this, how exactly? Let's play along anyhow. If they league setup the Pats as you suggest, and the Pats did in fact cheat, then surely the league must have easily been able to prove it? Unless they botched a simple setup sting and are even more incompetent than they already appear to be. The Colts suspected they did it in November. The Ravens suspected something too, last week. They told the Colts about it who notified the league before the game. Why do you think they took all the balls in at halftime? Then the Colts intercepted, the game manager told Pagano, who told his GM who also told the league. http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/nfl-was-ready-to-check-new-england-patriots-footballs-against-colts-report-says-1.9829583
Fadingpain Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 The fact that this PC occurred at all tells you NE is guilty, cheating, and lying. They are fully aware that the previous PCs of BB and TB came off HORRIBLY and that the entire world watching felt both guys were lying. NE felt like they needed additional spin control. The fact that Bill B. is going into this level of detail and explanation, a few days before a Superbowl, also tells you he is lying. Why in the world would he go to this level of trouble to tell us why they are innocent, if in fact they were innocent? Most of what Belichick said makes no sense. He again spent time discussing how he likes to use beaten up footballs in practice. What probative value does that have in reference to the game balls in dispute? Baseball players like to use weighted doughnuts too....for practice swings. Doesn't mean they don't use a lighter bat in games. Nothing Belichick said was really grounded in scientific terms. He seemed to be suggesting that the process they go through (deemed to be widely used through the NFL and legal) to "Rub down" footballs somehow excites the air molecules inside the football, thus raising air pressure, and this was done moments before the pre-game pressure measuring. This is just a bunch of bull ****. We have seen articles describing this process in great detail. In many instances this is a multi-day affair involving the repetition of many complex steps. It is all designed to simply impact the feel and texture of the surface leather of the football. That does not need to be done moments prior to a game and in fact is not done moments prior to a game. In TB's press conference, he told us that once the balls are "conditioned" he picks out the ones he likes and that's it! They go away not to be touched by other humans and those are "his balls" that he wants to use in a game. To suggest this complex, vital, and delicate process is done a couple hours before a game and minutes before being tested by an NFL official is just absurd. Further, I would love to see the scientific data showing that rubbing the football in the way an NFL equipment guy would to remove some oil left over from the manufacturing process (or whatever they are doing) increases PSI by 1. I would bet $10,000 that type of ball manipulation would have a very nominal effect, if any, on internal pressure. Presumably the theory states that heat is transferred to the air inside the ball via friction created by the rubbing, thus warming it and raising PSI. Any effect here would be tiny, if there is any effect at all. Even if we accept that the Patriots "rubbed down the balls" 5 minutes before handing them to an NFL official pre-game to check for proper PSI, and even if we accept the "rub down" added 1 or even 1.5 PSI...it still doesn't matter. The NFL official was there to check for and set proper pressure. If pressure was found to be high due to all the rubbing, it would be bled out of the ball and proper pressure re-established. Belichick's comments are absurd and do nothing to diminish a suspicion of guilt. Of course, as many have pointed out, "the weather" lowered the PSI in the Pats balls, but not the Colts. That's fascinating. Who knew the laws of science were capable of discrimination in this manner? So what are we left with? Desperate spin control from a desperate team who knows it looks bad and cheated. I am encouraged by this PC today. It suggests the Patriots are genuinely worried they are going to receive major sanctions. Lastly! Note how Belichick indicated that he was willing to go into detail today so that he would not have to do this again, and in fact, would not do so again. He is trying to control the conversation on his unilateral terms exclusively. Nice try, A-hole. I hope the press nails this guy to the cross next week.
MattM Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Bogus or not they just put the NFL into the position of having to disprove that it is possible. That will have to be part of their investigation, and the science of all the half pound changes due to this or that is going to bore people to tears. It will also reveal that the NFL does not have rules in effect to make absolutely sure that balls are within 12.5 to 13.5 at game time, and they are going to have to change their process. Common basic sense? How about maybe the Colts don't do their ball rubs just before giving them to the refs. Or perhaps they ask the refs to inflate them to 13.5 PSI, not 12.5 PSI. This isn't an investigation into the Colts ball handling practices. What lots of you Pats* fans don't seem to get is that it sounds like the refs knew about this ahead of time and measured both the Pats*' balls and the Colts' balls both before the game (both tested within the limits) and at halftime when as per multiple reports 11 of the 12 (the 12th may have been for the punter, as I've heard one person opine) Pats* balls tested 2 psi below the limit while the Colts balls still tested within the limits. In such a case, since both the Pats* balls and the Colts balls were the same temperature at halftime any effect due to the weather should be similar on each set of balls, yet one set passes (meaning that, at most, they deflated 1 psi due to the weather) and one was two psi under, which is the cause of the suspicion here. That's the common sense element here. I'm also sick of the burden of proof "you can't prove this" crap. In such a scenario, if I'm the League (remember, this isn't a court of law), the burden is pretty clearly on the team to explain why their balls weren't passing the test. The most likely explanation is someone let the air out of the Pats* balls and the punishment should flow accordingly, particularly considering their history of breaking the rules. Edited January 25, 2015 by MattM
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Patriots apologists on a Bills message board make me sick. Pathetic bunch of battered wives.
Nihilist25 Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) King isn't an NFL official and his opinion is no more absolute than any number of others who say that NFL officials simply give the balls a "squeeze" test. Why would they if they don't have intentions of cheating? 1. Did you click on the link which includes a verbatim copy of the NFL's statement?2. Because after their special treatment of their footballs the Patriots were obligated to ensure their footballs would still be in compliance with the rules during the game. Edited January 25, 2015 by Nihilist25
PolishDave Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Love to continue but it's party time. Basically you are speechless now that you realize that defending the Patriots in the face of obvious guilt is just stupid.
YoloinOhio Posted January 25, 2015 Author Posted January 25, 2015 Love to continue but it's party time.on the Gronk Party Bus?
PolishDave Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The Colts suspected they did it in November. The Ravens suspected something too, last week. They told the Colts about it who notified the league before the game. Why do you think they took all the balls in at halftime? Then the Colts intercepted, the game manager told Pagano, who told his GM who also told the league. http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/nfl-was-ready-to-check-new-england-patriots-footballs-against-colts-report-says-1.9829583 Yes. Basically it was like a poorly run sting operation. They suspected that the Patriots were cheating by somehow underinflating the balls. The refs checked at halftime and found their suspicion was proven true. But, thus far it appears they have failed to nail the exact person responsible for the crime. Watch from this point forward, the Patriots' balls will be magically perfectly inflated for every game regardless of whether it is 80 degrees or zero degrees at kickoff. As far as I a concerned, it is impossible that Brady did not know the balls were under-inflated. He is guilty for sure. Would he and some other equipment handler pull that off repeatedly without the knowledge of Belichick? Very unlikely.... Suspend them both. Easy peasy...Both suspended from Superbowl. Both suspended for at least one year from all NFL operations. Heavy multi-year fine imposed on the organization along with loss of draft picks. Everyone happy except Patriot fans...boo hoo Edited January 25, 2015 by PolishDave
PromoTheRobot Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 Reminds me of another famous press conference: I did not have sexual relation with that deflated football, Miss Lewinsky ..." Or "I'm not a crook."
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