st pete gogolak Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Not really: I'm one of those that hated the pick, having to give up 2 first rounders. Not the way to build a team. When was the last time ANYBODY gave a 2 1st round picks for a WR? Uh, the Falcons gave up that and more for Julio Jones. It didn't make them Super Bowl champions and it didn't really help the Browns all that much. It's really an equivalent trade to the Watkins deal. The Falcons got a really good receiver and the Browns frittered away the draft picks they got out of the deal.
San-O Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Uh, the Falcons gave up that and more for Julio Jones. It didn't make them Super Bowl champions and it didn't really help the Browns all that much. It's really an equivalent trade to the Watkins deal. The Falcons got a really good receiver and the Browns frittered away the draft picks they got out of the deal. Uhh, kind of. They gave up the 27 1st round pick and others to move up 20 spots. Buffalo gave up 2 1st round picks to move up 2 spots? So it's been 4 years is the answer. Atlanta Falcons[edit]The Atlanta Falcons selected Jones with the sixth overall pick of the 2011 NFL Draft. Atlanta had traded five draft picks to the Cleveland Browns to move up into their spot and take Jones, giving up their 27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 draft, and their first and fourthround picks from the 2012 draft.[54] Jones wears number 11, in tribute to the year he was drafted into the NFL. Jones came to terms with the Falcons on July 28, 2011, signing a four-year contract worth $16.2 million, all of which was guaranteed.[55]
Green Lightning Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 As a HC Marrone outperformed Gailey. Period! Gailey was fired and Marrne was not. Fitz was far from being a good qb but he was immensely better than the stuck in the mud Orton. The OL that Gailey had was adequate while the OL that Marrone had to work with was beyond being atrocious. You're a bit delusional. With a lick of ability as an "offensive guru" Marrone should have had this team in the playoffs. The only reason we are 9 and 7 is because of the defense -- the one thing Marrone didn't have anything to do with. Bunch formations, three tight end sets and a incredible inability to get the ball to our playmakers is directly hung around St. Doug's neck. Good riddance.
San-O Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 You're a bit delusional. With a lick of ability as an "offensive guru" Marrone should have had this team in the playoffs. The only reason we are 9 and 7 is because of the defense -- the one thing Marrone didn't have anything to do with. Bunch formations, three tight end sets and a incredible inability to get the ball to our playmakers is directly hung around St. Doug's neck. Good riddance. Maybe that's one of the reasons he didn't get a whiff as H.C. or coordinator. Maybe NFL G.M. types are smarter than we think???
Green Lightning Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Maybe that's one of the reasons he didn't get a whiff as H.C. or coordinator. Maybe NFL G.M. types are smarter than we think??? LIkely that plus the lack of class and discretion he showed leaving. The way he informed his players and the trashy PR campaign he mounted upon leaving let GM's know he'd do the same to them.
nucci Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Uhh, kind of. They gave up the 27 1st round pick and others to move up 20 spots. Buffalo gave up 2 1st round picks to move up 2 spots? So it's been 4 years is the answer. Atlanta Falcons[edit]The Atlanta Falcons selected Jones with the sixth overall pick of the 2011 NFL Draft. Atlanta had traded five draft picks to the Cleveland Browns to move up into their spot and take Jones, giving up their 27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 draft, and their first and fourthround picks from the 2012 draft.[54] Jones wears number 11, in tribute to the year he was drafted into the NFL. Jones came to terms with the Falcons on July 28, 2011, signing a four-year contract worth $16.2 million, all of which was guaranteed.[55] Gave up 2 1st round picks but got one back...Everyone always says we gave up 2 1st round picks...also moved from 9th to 4th.....more than 2 spots....but besides that you're correct
JohnC Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) And I completely disagree with you. It has been widely reported that the coaching going on with that offense was putrid -- too many hands in the OL pot, for one -- while Marrone left the defense and ST completely in the hands of those coordinators. You say Marrone did a good job because the team "played hard" yet criticize Rex despite the fact his team played the Pats* to within 3 pts in two games and blew out a "better" Miami team in the season finale -- with a markedly inferior roster. I could have coached the Bills last season and gotten them to 9-7. I believe that. I make better in game decisions and I would insist upon creating plays to get my playmakers the ball. Why was Sammy Watkins never used in the way he made a name for himself in college? Marrone did NOT do a good job last year. He did a very average job, and he failed miserably in the one area in which he was supposed to have expertise. Sammy Watkins's sterling talents were wasted because the OL could not block and the sub-average veteran qb was hideously immobile and his passing ability was fading as the season advanced. Calling plays for Watkins was not the problem. The inability to execute plays that involved Watkins due to talent limitations was the problem. From an offensive perspective Marrone didn't fail Whaley so much as Whaley failed Marrone in not giving him the wherewithal to have a respectable offense. Last year Whaley placed an emphasis on addressing the OL. He drafted Kujo, Richardson and Henderson. He also brought in a pedestrian veteran in Williams. The end result was not one of them made a positive contribution. That is not the fault of the HC. Let's not even get into the qb situation that Marrone had to work with! Our young qb prospect, EJ, was replaced by arguably the worst starting qb in the league. What does that say about EJ? Are you going to blame the qb situation on Marrone? Edited February 10, 2015 by JohnC
San-O Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 LIkely that plus the lack of class and discretion he showed leaving. The way he informed his players and the trashy PR campaign he mounted upon leaving let GM's know he'd do the same to them. Yeah, there's plenty of that to go around in the NFL...
powerbroker Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 The Draft experts and pundits all had Kouandjio high on the list. Right now he looks like another Bama Bust and appears to just be a meaner Mike Willams. Another highly touted and dominate player whose game and feet didn't translate to the NFL game. You wonder how these so called experts can get it so wrong sometime. Heck of feather in someones cap if they can make him starter in the NFL.
BillsVet Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 The Draft experts and pundits all had Kouandjio high on the list. Right now he looks like another Bama Bust and appears to just be a meaner Mike Willams. Another highly touted and dominate player whose game and feet didn't translate to the NFL game. You wonder how these so called experts can get it so wrong sometime. Heck of feather in someones cap if they can make him starter in the NFL. Except Big Mike played multiple seasons in the NFL and Kouandjio hasn't played multiple NFL games. The question is, why did Buffalo spend a mid 2nd round pick on a guy who couldn't play which may or may not be related to chronic knee injuries?
San-O Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Except Big Mike played multiple seasons in the NFL and Kouandjio hasn't played multiple NFL games. The question is, why did Buffalo spend a mid 2nd round pick on a guy who couldn't play which may or may not be related to chronic knee injuries? ... because he is really BIG???
Kelly the Dog Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I don't think any of us know with any certainty whatsoever, and probably have no clue, what happened last year with the offensive line. It's seems impossible to believe that Whaley went out and signed Chris Williams without Marrone's approval, but it also seems impossible to believe that Marrone would be so petty about players, so maybe they didn't agree at all. It seems impossible to believe that Marrone's one specialty, the OL, could all regress, but they did. Marrone clearly stated when he first came in that he wanted huge mauling linemen, which is what Whaley signed and drafted. But Marrone also first started out with a hurry up no huddle offense that is not tailor made at all for that kind of player. Marrone's offense last year had zero identity or continuity. He played a seventh round pick who didn't play RT all off season at RT, and a mediocre RT at RG who had never ever played RG. Then played a 5th round rookie whom Marrone and Pat Morris both admitted they had to completely reteach blocking techniques from scratch because of what he was taught in college when he clearly wasn't ready yet. Then played a fair LG in Urbik at RG. So we have no clue whatsoever how good any of these players are. And therein lies the problem. Roman and Kromer and Rex, despite the ability to watch film, are really not going to know much about these players as pros until training camp and preseason is over, and maybe not even then until the real bullets fly. I have a feeling we are going to see a few big surprises in who goes, who stays, who comes in, who ends up starting, and who is actually good or bad. What I hope they don't do is decide Incognito is enough, which may keep them from signing a Boling or Evans or Franklin or whomever may be available via FA.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I don't think any of us know with any certainty whatsoever, and probably have no clue, what happened last year with the offensive line. It's seems impossible to believe that Whaley went out and signed Chris Williams without Marrone's approval, but it also seems impossible to believe that Marrone would be so petty about players, so maybe they didn't agree at all. It seems impossible to believe that Marrone's one specialty, the OL, could all regress, but they did. Marrone clearly stated when he first came in that he wanted huge mauling linemen, which is what Whaley signed and drafted. But Marrone also first started out with a hurry up no huddle offense that is not tailor made at all for that kind of player. Marrone's offense last year had zero identity or continuity. He played a seventh round pick who didn't play RT all off season at RT, and a mediocre RT at RG who had never ever played RG. Then played a 5th round rookie whom Marrone and Pat Morris both admitted they had to completely reteach blocking techniques from scratch because of what he was taught in college when he clearly wasn't ready yet. Then played a fair LG in Urbik at RG. So we have no clue whatsoever how good any of these players are. And therein lies the problem. Roman and Kromer and Rex, despite the ability to watch film, are really not going to know much about these players as pros until training camp and preseason is over, and maybe not even then until the real bullets fly. I have a feeling we are going to see a few big surprises in who goes, who stays, who comes in, who ends up starting, and who is actually good or bad. What I hope they don't do is decide Incognito is enough, which may keep them from signing a Boling or Evans or Franklin or whomever may be available via FA. They can look at previous years for the veterans, but I agree that last year's tape isn't going to be all smiles. I can easily see Roman having a Kyle Orton like grimace when he's charting. Uh, the Falcons gave up that and more for Julio Jones. It didn't make them Super Bowl champions and it didn't really help the Browns all that much. It's really an equivalent trade to the Watkins deal. The Falcons got a really good receiver and the Browns frittered away the draft picks they got out of the deal. There was also a difference in the QB position.
Turbosrrgood Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Uhh, kind of. They gave up the 27 1st round pick and others to move up 20 spots. Buffalo gave up 2 1st round picks to move up 2 spots? So it's been 4 years is the answer. Atlanta Falcons[edit]The Atlanta Falcons selected Jones with the sixth overall pick of the 2011 NFL Draft. Atlanta had traded five draft picks to the Cleveland Browns to move up into their spot and take Jones, giving up their 27th, 59th, and 124th picks from the 2011 draft, and their first and fourthround picks from the 2012 draft.[54] Jones wears number 11, in tribute to the year he was drafted into the NFL. Jones came to terms with the Falcons on July 28, 2011, signing a four-year contract worth $16.2 million, all of which was guaranteed.[55] Why do people like to misrepresent what really happened in the draft, by saying the "Buffalo gave up 2 1st round picks"? The Bills traded the 2015 1st round pick to swap the 9th pick for the 4th pick in 2014...That's what really happened. They didn't "give up" anything. The cost of the move was 1 pick, to improve the current years draft position. Just say what really happened. Also, I'm not sure where you are getting the "move up 2 spots" math Edited February 10, 2015 by Turbosrrgood
Maddog69 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Except Big Mike played multiple seasons in the NFL and Kouandjio hasn't played multiple NFL games. The question is, why did Buffalo spend a mid 2nd round pick on a guy who couldn't play which may or may not be related to chronic knee injuries? Because the equipment guy had a bunch of extra letters laying around and the kid has a cool name.
Mark80 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I can't believe we have a thread on a backup offensive lineman that is now 7 pages long. That is all.
Kelly the Dog Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Why do people like to misrepresent what really happened in the draft, by saying the "Bills gave up 2 1st round picks"? The Bills traded the 2015 1st round pick to swap picks in 2014...That's what really happened. They didn't "give up" anything. Just say what happened, instead of trying to make it sound really expensive by saying in a way that doesn't make sense. It's a semantic argument and neither is right or wrong. BUT... If you were to read of a trade that happened years ago, that you knew nothing about, and someone wrote in an article-- "The Jets gave up a first and a fourth to take that CB" which would you immediately think? 1] That the Jets traded one first and one fourth for that player, or 2] the Jets traded TWO firsts and a fourth for that player? Chances are, most people would say 1]. Gave up is neither completely right nor completely wrong, and in a lot of cases it sounds more correct than not, like above.
Maddog69 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Why do people like to misrepresent what really happened in the draft, by saying the "Buffalo gave up 2 1st round picks"? The Bills traded the 2015 1st round pick to swap the 9th pick for the 4th pick in 2014...That's what really happened. They didn't "give up" anything. The cost of the move was 1 pick, to improve the current years draft position. Just say what really happened. Why be afraid to admit what the Bills gave up to get the pick used on Sammy? Before the trade, the Bills had the 9th pick in Rd1, their 4th round pick in that draft and their #1 pick in 2015. After the trade they didn't have any of that. They had Sammy. So, they game up those 3 picks to get Sammy. Not hard to understand and that isn't even looking at the fact that several other WRs in that draft are nearly as good, as good or possibly even better than Sammy. It is possible that the Bills could have actually traded down, got OBJ and extra pick while still keep their 4th rounder in 2014 and their 1st rounder in 2015. Pretty questionable trade, in my opinion. Even if Sammy turns out to be good.
Turbosrrgood Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) It's a semantic argument and neither is right or wrong. BUT... If you were to read of a trade that happened years ago, that you knew nothing about, and someone wrote in an article-- "The Jets gave up a first and a fourth to take that CB" which would you immediately think? 1] That the Jets traded one first and one fourth for that player, or 2] the Jets traded TWO firsts and a fourth for that player? Chances are, most people would say 1]. Gave up is neither completely right nor completely wrong, and in a lot of cases it sounds more correct than not, like above. Actually, the way I described is what actually happened. Without any misrepresentation of the cost, it's not semantics there is a difference. Saying the cost was 2 1st round picks for Watkins is factually incorrect. Edited February 10, 2015 by Turbosrrgood
Mark80 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Why be afraid to admit what the Bills gave up to get the pick used on Sammy? Before the trade, the Bills had the 9th pick in Rd1, their 4th round pick in that draft and their #1 pick in 2015. After the trade they didn't have any of that. They had Sammy. So, they game up those 3 picks to get Sammy. Not hard to understand and that isn't even looking at the fact that several other WRs in that draft are nearly as good, as good or possibly even better than Sammy. It is possible that the Bills could have actually traded down, got OBJ and extra pick while still keep their 4th rounder in 2014 and their 1st rounder in 2015. Pretty questionable trade, in my opinion. Even if Sammy turns out to be good. You are completely overlooking the point that Sammy was the only WR seen as a Sure Thing going into the draft. You can't look at the deal after the fact but should look at it with the information that was available at the time.
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