purple haze Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Interesting. I wonder the details of this. I mean exactly what does Whaley see that Marrone did not? Was Marrone that vindictive that he would sit a player just because he did not like him? Ask Mike Williams.
EmotionallyUnstable Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Does he have the tools to be a suitable guard? Idk enough about him but agree he should be given a chance. He is young and monsterous, hopefully he will mature
JohnC Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 and early, i think we all pictured marrone being willing to work with talent and not just scheme -- but that was not the case. whether our RBs, WRs, lineman.... we saw it a lot. The players that Whaley added to the OL last year were not only not ready but were far from being ready to play. Richardson was overwhelmed when he played and to a lesser degree so was Henderson. Kujo was so far unprepared that a reasonable case could be made that he shouldn't have been on the roster. It doesn't matter what Marrone's scheme or football philosophy was. If a player can't play, or isn't readyto play, that inadequacy trumps any scheme used. If you factor in that the Bills went into the season with a young qb who struggled and was replaced by a very average veteran qb who was fading fast then thedour HC's philosophy shouldn't be expected to overcome the team's shortcomings. I like Whaley a lot. But last year I felt that he did a poor job asembling a commpetitive unit for the offense. The problem wasn't that the players he added to bolster the OL were average or less. The problemwas that the players he made available to the HC were so below par that it created a level of weakness that couldn't even be minimized. Anyone who is half objective and watched the games recognized how atrocious the OL was, especially at the guard positions. In my opinion the unpopular Marrone has received a lot of unwarranted criticism. He got a very flawed and unbalanced team, a .500 caliber of team, to play to its talent level. Overall, the players consistently played hard for him. Just because he is not very likeable doesn't mean that his record should be unfairly diminished. To be fair in evaluating his performance over the past two years he clearly outperformed the brash and tattooed coach who is replacing him.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 @KevinMassare: Still hearing that Bills OL Cyrus Kouandjio has an inside track to the RG spot. Hearing Whaley/Ryan like him, Marrone did not. I am the biggest marrone basher, but he was probably right on this one. I will be stunned if they make Kujo into a serviceable guard.
NoSaint Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 I am the biggest marrone basher, but he was probably right on this one. I will be stunned if they make Kujo into a serviceable guard. Many here were on the CK to guard bandwagon very early. That his first practice rep there came in October/november(?) is crazy. I have little to no confidence you saw marrone maximizing his potential to succeed- something any young player needs help with. You saw a couple preseason reps at a different position. It's a bit early to close the book. He wouldn't be the only guy who's zenith was reached under Saban either. I'm not sure what that had to do with my statement/question about the nature of his knee condition
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Many here were on the CK to guard bandwagon very early. That his first practice rep there came in October/november(?) is crazy. I have little to no confidence you saw marrone maximizing his potential to succeed- something any young player needs help with. You saw a couple preseason reps at a different position. It's a bit early to close the book. I'm not sure what that had to do with my statement/question about the nature of his knee condition I hope you are right and I am wrong. But what I saw from him at tackle was someone with no speed, no quickness, and no strength. I am not holding my breath and I kinda hope that Whaley is going to see CK as a plan B, not a plan A.
Lurker Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 The problem was that the players he made available to the HC were so below par Below par as NFL rookies or as NFL starters? All three guys struggled...as virtuallty all rookies do. Whaley and Marone most certainly knew that would happen and were willing to pay that price, absent the availability of quality free agent vets. Each of them are big mauler types who, IMO, should take a step forward this year with Roman emphasizing a man-on-man power blocking scheme: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Roman-is-49ers-Brain-Behind--189214061.html http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/22-san-francisco-complex-offense-far-more-running-171041695--nfl.html
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Does he have the tools to be a suitable guard? Idk enough about him but agree he should be given a chance. He is young and monsterous, hopefully he will mature It may be more about his arthritic knees after botched surgery than his maturity. I'm not sure what that had to do with my statement/question about the nature of his knee condition Key word in that sentence was "either" as in definition 4 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/either What the statement means is that there have been a number of Alabama players that were at their very best at Alabama and in Saban's system. When they went to the NFL, the wheels came off. (Trent Richardson is a high-profile example.) So, in addition to his knee problems, Cyrus may just have hit his developmental ceiling. (I'm not saying he has, but he was buried on the bench on a unit that was hugely underperforming.)
El Presidente Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Yes Marrone is such a great judge of offensive line talent that Craig Urbik road the bench for several games when he was EASILY our best offensive guard This is what gives me hope for Kujo.......Marrone even though he considers himself a offensive line coach does know how to coach offensive line and cant judge talent...... Exactly right John from Hemet...Marrone SUCKED as an Oline player...his resume on wiki doesn't lie... Career history As player: Miami Dolphins (1987) New Orleans Saints (1989) London Monarchs (1991–1992) So he washed out of the NFL, bounced to the Euro-league and became a coach. So glad we are done with this bozo!
Lurker Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) It may be more about his arthritic knees after botched surgery than his maturity. http://q.usatoday.com/2014/03/06/dr-james-andrews-cyrus-kouandjios-knee-nfl-draft/ Who's to say it was botched. All the FUD passed around prior to the draft was just that...Fud. Will he have arthritis? For sure. But what I've read is it won't be a problem until 5-6 years from now, if then. IMO, his problems had as much to do with weight, conditioning, technique and experience (he was all of 21 years old last year). I look at 2014 as a red shirt year...and I think St. Doug did as well after seeing him in training camp. A full year working with an NFL strength and conditioning staff should make a big difference. Edited February 9, 2015 by Lurker
TC in St. Louis Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 I guess we'll have to see what happens this summer to the players Doug benched. Perhaps they were poorly coached. Before Marrone got there, Eric Wood and Cordy Glenn were considered to be solid good near-Pro Bowl calibre players. Wood fell apart, Glenn's play declined. Nobody on the line did well at all. Most of the players were at the very bottom of the league's rankings. Two years ago they were not that bad. They have not cut anybody yet. CK was rated as high as 10th in the draft. Richardson was a unanimous first team All-American at Baylor. Henderson is a superb athlete. They can't all be as bad as they looked. Sometimes players just need a different system. Look at Hughes. He was dumped by Indy for Kelvin Sheppard, and now he's a great player. Maybe the new system will give the line to play at a much higher and more productive level. Can't get much worse.
billsfan89 Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 A lot of players seemed to regress on the offensive line the past couple of years. Wood, Urbik, and Glen all fairly young players regressed and the rookies brought in this past season didn't really develop even Henderson who came on strong seemed to mostly flat line as the season went on. Overall if Marrone is selling himself as an o-line guru he better not list the Bills on his resume. I am hoping Cyrus gets to compete with Incognito for that RG position or Henderson for that RT spot the guy was more of a project than anticipated but the guy has a lot of the physical traits.
White Linen Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Marrone was a cancer This might be true. If it was the case it shows how professional our players are and that with the right leadership they can go even further with that kind of loyalty to team. Rex said if we're all in this together - we'll win. Well it seems Rex is inheriting that type of locker room.
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I'm starting to think the line is almost complete and Whaley won't be making any big moves. DW will probably add another low priced free agent like a Wille Colon but that's it. Whaley doesn't value paying guards premium money and I fully expect him to stick to his guns. Here is a little preview of what our line can look like heading into camp Lt- Glenn, Hairston LG- Incognito, Williams, Urbik C- Woods, Urbik & late draft pk Rg- Colon, Cyrus, Cyril= camp battle Rt- Henderson, Hairston, Cyrus Edited February 9, 2015 by NastyNateSoldiers
JohnC Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Below par as NFL rookies or as NFL starters? All three guys struggled...as virtuallty all rookies do. Whaley and Marone most certainly knew that would happen and were willing to pay that price, absent the availability of quality free agent vets. Each of them are big mauler types who, IMO, should take a step forward this year with Roman emphasizing a man-on-man power blocking scheme: Whaley believed that his team was capable of being a playoff team. And he stated it publicly. That was one of the reasons he made the Watkins deal. He felt that this team was on the verge of making the playoffs and that a dynamic player such as Watkins would be a difference maker. However, that doesn't mean you should play unprepared players who are so overwhelmed that they sabotage the offense. No one is suggesting that players shouldn't be developed and brought along. But throwing them in the line of fire when they aren't capable of blocking the defenders in front of them isn't the wisest approach to take, especially when you have one of the least mobile qbs taking the snaps. My biggest concern with Kujo and Richardson is that they have fatal flaws of having slow feet and not being athletic enough to deal with the quicker defenders in front of them. No amount of coaching is going to compensate for that type of physical limitation. When Whaley drafted Kujo in the second round he did it with the expectation that he could immediately contend for the RT position. That was a glaing miscalculation. Now there is talk of moving him to guard. That's a fallback position because he isn't capable of playing the more isolated tackle position. In the Raven's playoff game against the Pats I watched rookie John Urschel,from Canisius H.S, and Penn State, play better than anyone on our line. He was a fifth round pick taken after Richardson. He wasn't as big as any of our rookie players but he based on perfromance was a far superior player. The GM for the Ravens demonstrated with the Urschel selectiion that he has a better grasp on drafting linemen than Whaley has. Newsome understands much better than Whaley that when assessing prospects size and physical profiles don't trump ability to play football. Edited February 9, 2015 by JohnC
RyanC883 Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Koundjo is the one guy I am not excited about. That guy is about as obvious a bust as I have ever seen. I would put money on him flaming out of the league. Just a whiff on that one. totally agree. His knees were shot before they drafted him. He lacks the mobility required of an NFL lineman. I still say try him at Guard, but I can't see him being anything but a reserve player. (perhaps the dude can throw and has good pocket presence, and he is our new QB ) I'm starting to think the line is almost complete and Whaley won't be making any big moves. DW will probably add another low priced free agent like a Wille Colon but that's it. Whaley doesn't value paying guards premium money and I fully expect him to stick to his guns. Here is a little preview of what our line can look like heading into camp Lt- Glenn, Hairston LG- Incognito, Williams, Urbik C- Woods, Urbik & late draft pk Rg- Colon, Cyrus, Cyril= camp battle Rt- Henderson, Hairston, Cyrus if they are going cheap, Colon could be a good addition at guard. Dude is huge and can knock people around. Great run blocker from what I saw of him in PIT (as I recall).
The Bunk Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Maybe it was Marrone, but i doubt it. Not a single guard on this roster deserved to play in the league last year. Chris Williams was the 14th overall pick for Chicago as an OT and got moved to guard because he wasn't any good. After a handful of injury prone, poorly played seasons, he was cut. One season with the OL needy Rams, and then they let him walk in FA. I'm not going to kill Marrone because he couldn't get this guy to perform better than he did. Guy simply isn't a good player. Richardson was a rookie who clearly wasn't ready and Urbik and the rest of lot would be waiver wire fodder if we cut them. His starting RT was a 7th round pick rookie who while talented, was going to take his lumps. Glenn and Woods' jobs get harder when the guys playing next to them can't do their job. Might not be Marrone's fault. No coach in the league was getting this OL to be great. Perhaps a new scheme or attitude, coach, whatever gets more out of them this year, but if it happens it's worth noting the rookies got experience, and a full year with NFL strength and conditioning. If/when this group improves everybody will want to say "see? it was Marrone's fault !" but i'm not sure he wouldn't have had them playing better this season also. Edited February 9, 2015 by The Bunk
San-O Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 it's not as obvious as marrone's "obviously's", but whaley describes himself as "excited" about something in pretty much every interview. dude's in a perpetual state of excitement. if he wasn't excited about something i'd wonder if he was feeling ok. I'm not excited. What a load of crap...
TC in St. Louis Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 A great line coach can take a band of retreads and get them to the Super Bowl. The Giants went to the dance with Glenn Parker and Dusty Zeigler starting, both of whom were cut by the Bills. The Pats always have a great line, despite not having big name talent. Sure. Logan Mankins (gone).....who had ever heard of him before he was drafted? Road graders. That's what we need. I think we have a few of those.
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