FireChan Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) How can anyone watch these highlights and say EJs can't be a starting QB in the NFL? How can anyone say he's not accurate? How can Joe B say he can't hit receivers in stride or throw to the right place? In these highlights he reminds me of Steve McNair. He really put a beating on the Jets. Maybe Rex seen the same potential in EJ some of us have and will unleash it this season with an established OC Because every QB, good or bad, has a sweet high light video. Edited January 23, 2015 by FireChan
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) How can anyone watch these highlights and say EJs can't be a starting QB in the NFL? How can anyone say he's not accurate? How can Joe B say he can't hit receivers in stride or throw to the right place? In these highlights he reminds me of Steve McNair. He really put a beating on the Jets. Maybe Rex seen the same potential in EJ some of us have and will unleash it this season with an established OCIt's very easy to say EJ is inaccurate if you actually put the tape on and watch the games. It's easy to make a player look great in a highlight video since that's the intended purpose... The goal is to evaluate an entire body of work and not just basing an opinion on an 8 minute highlight video. Edited January 23, 2015 by Bangarang
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) certainly inaccuracy is a fatal flaw for a target position. but we havent seen enough of him to make that determination. the guy has been over thinking stuff too much out there, that would make anyone miss some easy ones Edited January 23, 2015 by JTSP
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) certainly inaccuracy is a fatal flaw for a target position. but we havent seen enough of him to make that determination. the guy has been over thinking stuff too much out there, that would make anyone miss some easy onesHe's been in the league 2 years. Can we stop trying to convince ourselves that we haven't seen enough to have an opinion on the kid? He wasn't very good and got benched. He was erratic as a passer and didn't consistently show competent levels of anticipation and awareness. We don't need 3 years worth of games to see that this kid isn't very good at the moment. It's important to understand that can all change though. It's going to be an uphill battle for him but he could work on his game in the off-season and with new coaching and scheme play like a totally different QB. It's like people walk on egg shells when talking about him. Let's call a spade a spade. Edited January 23, 2015 by Bangarang
1billsfan Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 It's very easy to say EJ is inaccurate if you actually put the tape on and watch the games. It's easy to make a player look great in a highlight video since that's the intended purpose... The goal is to evaluate an entire body of work and not just basing an opinion on an 8 minute highlight video. As Bills fans we don't need to see any tape. We saw a very promising franchise QB career get totally squashed and ruined by the two amateur coaches Marrone and Hackett's ridiculously conservative offense. With Roman as his OC I think that EJ's game will make a huge jump this year, he'll win the starting job easily and have over 30 TDs both passing and running combined. Manuel's going to make a lot of people around here eat their words.
SDS Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 As Bills fans we don't need to see any tape. We saw a very promising franchise QB career get totally squashed and ruined by the two amateur coaches Marrone and Hackett's ridiculously conservative offense. With Roman as his OC I think that EJ's game will make a huge jump this year, he'll win the starting job easily and have over 30 TDs both passing and running combined. Manuel's going to make a lot of people around here eat their words. Are you implying the things you see today aren't exactly what was seen in college?
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) As Bills fans we don't need to see any tape. We saw a very promising franchise QB career get totally squashed and ruined by the two amateur coaches Marrone and Hackett's ridiculously conservative offense. With Roman as his OC I think that EJ's game will make a huge jump this year, he'll win the starting job easily and have over 30 TDs both passing and running combined. Manuel's going to make a lot of people around here eat their words. Yeah I'm sure it was Marrone and Hackett coaching this kid to be erratic. Even despite scheme and coaching, we saw EJ miss several throws that a player of his talent level and draft status shouldn't be missing as often as he was. If EJ makes me or anyone else eat their words then great. It means he would have improved a great deal. The reality of the situation is that he wasn't good in his first two years and this will be his final shot to show us he can be a competent starting QB. I haven't closed the door on him by any means but I'm also not going to pretend like we don't have enough information to form on opinion on him either. Edited January 23, 2015 by Bangarang
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 He's been in the league 2 years. Can we stop trying to convince ourselves that we haven't seen enough to have an opinion on the kid? He wasn't very good and got benched. He was erratic as a passer and didn't consistently show competent levels of anticipation and awareness. We don't need 3 years worth of games to see that this kid isn't very good at the moment. It's important to understand that can all change though. It's going to be an uphill battle for him but he could work on his game in the off-season and with new coaching and scheme play like a totally different QB. It's like people walk on egg shells when talking about him. Let's call a spade a spade. less than a full season of starts and nothing since week 4 of his 2nd year. no idea how hed perform as a starter again
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) less than a full season of starts and nothing since week 4 of his 2nd year. no idea how hed perform as a starter againHe has less than a full season of starts because he didn't improve in year two. He regressed and our GM openly admitted that. EJ wasn't any better in his 14th start in year 2 than he was in his first start as a rookie. That definitely should count for something. He was benched because his game was regressing and we can't hold that against him? Give me a break. Edited January 23, 2015 by Bangarang
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 He has less than a full season of starts because he didn't improve in year two. He regressed and our GM openly admitted that. EJ wasn't any better in his 14th start in year 2 than he was in his first start as a rookie. That definitely should count for something. He was benched because his game was regressing and we can't hold that against him? Give me a break. factor that in? yes permanently damn? no
FireChan Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 factor that in? yes permanently damn? no Good thing he didn't permanently damn him then. He actually was very clear on that point.
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 factor that in? yes permanently damn? no So let's not pretend like we can't form an opinion of him after 14 games. It's like people make up all these excuses to avoid labeling him as QB who isn't very good because of some desperation for him to succeed. It's not like I don't get it and don't want to see this kid be great for the next decade. The same erratic and timid EJ we saw in training camp and preseason was the same one we saw in his first 4 games in year two. I was there at training camp. This kid was playing timid and being hesitant to throw even in 7 on 7 drills. I'm not even saying he's permanently doomed or that he should be labeled a bust and discarded. All I'm saying is that there's 14 games and 2 years worth of this kid being coached up and working on his game and showing little to no improvement. I can form an opinion based on the information available. If others don't want to then that's fine.
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 So let's not pretend like we can't form an opinion of him after 14 games. It's like people make up all these excuses to avoid labeling him as QB who isn't very good because of some desperation for him to succeed. It's not like I don't get it and don't want to see this kid be great for the next decade. The same erratic and timid EJ we saw in training camp and preseason was the same one we saw in his first 4 games in year two. I was there at training camp. This kid was playing timid and being hesitant to throw even in 7 on 7 drills. I'm not even saying he's permanently doomed or that he should be labeled a bust and discarded. All I'm saying is that there's 14 games and 2 years worth of this kid being coached up and working on his game and showing little to no improvement. I can form an opinion based on the information available. If others don't want to then that's fine. Even his most ardent supporters would concede his report card has some "needs improvement" grades in important areas. I'm saying in his next starts (assuming he gets any) I have no idea what we'll see, after what would earliest be almost a year on the bench. The entire range from sharp as a tack to dud is possible. And if we're going to dump guys after 2 seasons for not performing to their draft status then dareus would have been gone too.
eball Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) So let's not pretend like we can't form an opinion of him after 14 games. It's like people make up all these excuses to avoid labeling him as QB who isn't very good because of some desperation for him to succeed. It's not like I don't get it and don't want to see this kid be great for the next decade. The same erratic and timid EJ we saw in training camp and preseason was the same one we saw in his first 4 games in year two. I was there at training camp. This kid was playing timid and being hesitant to throw even in 7 on 7 drills. I'm not even saying he's permanently doomed or that he should be labeled a bust and discarded. All I'm saying is that there's 14 games and 2 years worth of this kid being coached up and working on his game and showing little to no improvement. I can form an opinion based on the information available. If others don't want to then that's fine. And I believe many of us are focusing in on that statement right there. The EJ we saw on the field in 2014 looked nothing like the EJ coming out of college, and at moments in 2013. It's pretty apparent the coaching mentality was one of "don't make mistakes" -- which I really believe paralyzed the player. I am excited to see if training camp and preseason -- combined with what EJ learned from the sidelines last year -- results in the "natural" player coming through. Then we'll know what we have, and whether he is good enough. Edited January 23, 2015 by eball
GunnerBill Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Geno is a risk taker. EJ is risk averse. This was the case in college, and it's still the case in the pros. Not sure any amount of nurture can change that nature. Geno may develop better risk management skills via gameday learning experience, and there are signs that's starting to happen. If so, he has a very big upside. If not, he's capable of apocalyptic destruction. Next year will be the make or break for him. Meanwhile, EJ needs to loosen up the risk controls. He plays with fear, and the only way that fear will dissipate is if he isn't worried about the consequences of making a mistake. This is where a loyal coach like Rex could be a big help. If Manuel believes he can suck deflated balls and his coach will still have his back it could relax his game. No guarantees on that, but a season of rope to either hang or prove himself probably should be extended in 2015. He needs to dance like nobody's watching to have a chance at making boom out of bust. I'd still put my money on EJ hanging himself, but I'm a terrible gambler so who knows. Gotta give him a punchers chance given the high investment we made, and the dearth of top quality options in free agency or the draft. I just think it's harder to embolden the timid than reign in the reckless. The perception of Geno as a rsik taker are wrong. He doesn't throw picks because he take risks... he is just incapable of reading basic coverages. He was the same in college I am not sure why people still continue to look past this.
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 The perception of Geno as a rsik taker are wrong. He doesn't throw picks because he take risks... he is just incapable of reading basic coverages. He was the same in college I am not sure why people still continue to look past this. Seen plenty of his jets games. Keeps his eyes down field, not afraid to throw deep, throw into tight coverage or look for the big play. He's a risk taker , no doubt .
GunnerBill Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Seen plenty of his jets games. Keeps his eyes down field, not afraid to throw deep, throw into tight coverage or look for the big play. He's a risk taker , no doubt . So have I and I don't agree. He is loose with the football. I don't think that is the same thing as a risk taker. A risk taker is someone able to calculate risk - not sure Geno is. There is a difference between throwing a risky ball and thowing a downright stupid ball. Edited January 23, 2015 by GunnerBill
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 So have I and I don't agree. He is loose with the football. I don't think that is the same thing as a risk taker. A risk taker is someone able to calculate risk - not sure Geno is. There is a difference between throwing a risky ball and thowing a downright stupid ball. I think the definition youre looking for is "calculated risk taker." Favre was a risk taker, tried to extend plays and looked for big strikes more often than others. That's what geno is....not as good....but similar mentality. Brady is a calculated risk taker...or he "takes the money" as wannsted said, meaning he takes what the defense gives him, no matter if its deep or dink and dunk.
GunnerBill Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I think the definition youre looking for is "calculated risk taker." Favre was a risk taker, tried to extend plays and looked for big strikes more often than others. That's what geno is....not as good....but similar mentality. Brady is a calculated risk taker.. .or he "takes the money" as wannsted said, meaning he takes what the defense gives him, no matter if its deep or dink and dunk. Haha. Comparing Geno to Favre is laughable.
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2015 Author Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Haha. Comparing Geno to Favre is laughable. Lol I used favre as an archetype for a risk taker and cited geno as an example of that mentality, pointing out he's not as good. Never said they were comparably good. Lol talk about a "misread" Edited January 23, 2015 by JTSP
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