GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 thats one thing Geno has over him ... he plays fearless. Or stupid... depending on your viewpoint.
GG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Certainly. Drew Stanton http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/10487/drew-stanton Mark Sanchez http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12482/mark-sanchez Colt McCoy http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13199/colt-mccoy Kirk Cousins http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins Austin Davis http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15187/austin-davis Mike Glennon http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15837/mike-glennon Ryan Fitzpatrick (he was technically the starter, but he's a career back-up) http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8664/ryan-fitzpatrick Charlie Whitehurst http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9667/charlie-whitehurst Kyle Orton http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8520/kyle-orton This is just about every second or third stringer who saw at least 2 games in the NFL in 2014. Now, you can look at one or two of these guys and see that EJ has one less fumble, but they almost all beat him in passer rating (Stanton is the only exception), and I believe that they all beat him in Total QBR (not that I'm a firm believer in that stat). And they all beat him in YPA, perhaps the single best indicator of QB success. But that's the thing, 2014 is probably not a good comp. It was clear why he was benched. The question though is whether Bills should continue developing him or cut him outright in the spring, as Leroi suggests.
Big Turk Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I agree. I watched a fair amount of Geno...I know it has been said before, but while EJ never looked as bad as Geno, he never looked as good either...Ryan (or whoever) let Geno just play...I fear that Bills fans are too impatient at this point (and I am not necessarily blaming them), to let Manuel go through all the mistakes he has to get out of his system. From the sounds of it, the Bills players in Doug Marrones offense may have had "too many voices" in their ears. Paralysis through analysis...add to that the pressure on 1st round QB who was thrust in the role as "franchise savior", it isn't surprising that he has struggled. I am not done with him...want to see him play a little more. The problem I have is that accuracy typically ist teachable...you either have it or you don't. A 58% completion rate might have worked in 1988, but when you are giving up 4-8% to most other QBs in the NFL its hard to overcome that ons game in game out basis. Not to mention his ball placement on many throws, even easy ones, leaves a lot to be desired... Edited January 22, 2015 by matter2003
biggerdaddynj Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Do you live on the second floor? Knock three times on the ceiling if you want me. Edited January 22, 2015 by biggerdaddynj
eball Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 The problem I have is that accuracy typically ist teachable...you either have it or you don't. A 58% completion rate might have worked in 1988, but when you are giving up 4-8% to most other QBs in the NFL its hard to overcome that ons game in game out basis. Not to mention his ball placement on many throws, even easy ones, leaves a lot to be desired... While Leroi's comments are concerning to me (funny, since I have no idea who he is), I've said before that coaching can do a lot. If EJ was constantly coached "not to make mistakes" then that probably resulted in him "aiming" passes and prevented him from just throwing naturally. We can't say for sure, but it certainly seemed as though he was considerably better during situations in which the game was less "structured" -- i.e., two minute drills and hurry up.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 The problem I have is that accuracy typically ist teachable...you either have it or you don't. A 58% completion rate might have worked in 1988, but when you are giving up 4-8% to most other QBs in the NFL its hard to overcome that ons game in game out basis. Not to mention his ball placement on many throws, even easy ones, leaves a lot to be desired... Sanchez completed 53% and 54% of his passes his first 2 years. Under a good offensive coach, he completed 64% this year. Alex Smith completed 50% and 48% of his passes 2 seasons in his career. Under Reid this past year, 65%. Under Roman, he completed 70%. If EJ was failing with Chip Kelly, Andy Reid or Jim Harbaugh, it's one thing. But sorry, I'm not going to throw the guy away because he didn't light it up under the Syracuse coaching staff. EJs faults cannot be corrected. He is a bust and is finished as a Bill. Look for his release this spring. Imo I respect your Ryan call. But if this is based on any inside knowledge, it would be mind blowingly stupid. The fact that EJ was a first round pick is a sunken cost at this point. To keep a guy for 2 years and let him go would be beyond dumb. We finally got a legit NFL OC. Let's see what EJ can do. There are too many QBs who had worse starts to their career than EJ (Sanchez and Alex Smith) who have developed into solid NFL QBs. Why cut a guy to let a team like Philly pick up for nothing?
Maddog69 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 EJs faults cannot be corrected. He is a bust and is finished as a Bill. Look for his release this spring. Imo There is a much greater chance that EJ is our starter rather than being released this spring before there's even a competition. The problem I have is that accuracy typically ist teachable...you either have it or you don't. A 58% completion rate might have worked in 1988, but when you are giving up 4-8% to most other QBs in the NFL its hard to overcome that ons game in game out basis. Not to mention his ball placement on many throws, even easy ones, leaves a lot to be desired...I believe that some of these issues can be improved with confidence, better mechanics, comfort level in the offense and timing with the receivers. I think we will find out in 2015 whether EJ is good enough or not. Its just too bad 2014 was wasted on Uncle Rico and not used to find out if EJ can develop.
YoloinOhio Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Sanchez completed 53% and 54% of his passes his first 2 years. Under a good offensive coach, he completed 64% this year. Alex Smith completed 50% and 48% of his passes 2 seasons in his career. Under Reid this past year, 65%. Under Roman, he completed 70%. If EJ was failing with Chip Kelly, Andy Reid or Jim Harbaugh, it's one thing. But sorry, I'm not going to throw the guy away because he didn't light it up under the Syracuse coaching staff. I respect your Ryan call. But if this is based on any inside knowledge, it would be mind blowingly stupid. The fact that EJ was a first round pick is a sunken cost at this point. To keep a guy for 2 years and let him go would be beyond dumb. We finally got a legit NFL OC. Let's see what EJ can do. There are too many QBs who had worse starts to their career than EJ (Sanchez and Alex Smith) who have developed into solid NFL QBs. Why cut a guy to let a team like Philly pick up for nothing?[/quotes] I agree and it doesn't at all fit into the narrative that Whaley wanted a HC who would be willing to at least continue to develop EJ. Roman is the best available OC to work his style of QB as well. I have no doubt that a vet will he brought in as well as another guy to replace Tuel. I think Tuel was here only because he knew the offense and could play in an emergency. Bye bye Jeff. They may draft a guy and keep 3 QBs on the roster.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I continue to wonder if EJ has The Yips, which has been suggested here before. If the problem is truly psychological, I doubt the Bills have the patience to try to rectify it...
eball Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I continue to wonder if EJ has The Yips, which has been suggested here before. If the problem is truly psychological, I doubt the Bills have the patience to try to rectify it... I'm glad, because the last thing I want this coaching staff to do is work on our QB's putting stroke.
elroy16 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) If only we were preparing him for med school.... As it is, we are asking him to throw a football for a living. But he can't read defenses.... If football was only won on pamphlets... You guys totally missed the point of Lee's comment. He talked about Fitz being the smartest, most prepared QB along with Pennington he's ever worked with. He said by Friday, Fitz would know if the coverage would be Cover 3 or man or whatever based on what the defense would show because he prepared so much. That's why QB's watch film all the time. That way when the step up to the center, they have a very good idea of what the defense will do and know what they want to do with the ball. THAT is what is encouraging about EJ acing that test. He retains what he learns. If a QB is dumb, they could watch 1,000 hours of film, but when they step up to the center, if they don't remember any of it, they are screwed. But yeah, why would a QB need to be smart and be able to retain football knowledge, they're just throwing a football, right? Edited January 22, 2015 by elroy16
YoloinOhio Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I continue to wonder if EJ has The Yips, which has been suggested here before. If the problem is truly psychological, I doubt the Bills have the patience to try to rectify it...haha yes I started the Yips thread and I still think he had them at least to some degree.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I would love to see the offense catered to EJ this year. I would love to see more roll outs and passes on the run CBF
BUFFALOTONE Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 please tell me this is really just your opinion. What else would it be? agree it was a little awkward at first, he may have realized it and tried to redeem himself later. iirc a jets coach also said tebow didnt have the tools to be an NFL QB .... thought that was terrible, very damaging to a player's career. No matter what he thought of Tebow (or any player) he should have kept it private Well, he wasn't wrong about Tebow...
bigK14094 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Gino is more accurate...he just picks the wrong spots to put the ball. EJ can pick the right spot sometimes, but can't hit it.
FireChan Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 But that's the thing, 2014 is probably not a good comp. It was clear why he was benched. The question though is whether Bills should continue developing him or cut him outright in the spring, as Leroi suggests. I understand that. I'm just saying, just because you started some games and looked okay at times doesn't mean you're going to be a serviceable back-up. Not all busts become serviceable back-ups.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I understand that. I'm just saying, just because you started some games and looked okay at times doesn't mean you're going to be a serviceable back-up. Not all busts become serviceable back-ups. And not all franchise QBs were all pros right away either. IT's a process.
Fixxxer Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I would love to see the offense catered to EJ this year. I would love to see more roll outs and passes on the run CBF We had some of those on the last offense, the problem is the timing of those made zero sense, having Roman as an experienced play caller gives me some hope that the gameplan & playcalling will not be as predictable as it was the last few years.
KOKBILLS Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I think Joe B. hit the nail on the head concerning EJ during this mornings conversation on WGR... The problem with EJ dating back to his time at FSU has been accuracy...But not necessarily accuracy that can be tracked fairly by completion percentage...It's more ball-placement...The ball being too low, too high, behind the receiver, etc...I sincerely challenge any Bills fan to go back and watch film on EJ in most games and concentrate on the amount of throws he misses to open receivers...Some of these passes even end up as completions...But the ball is so low, or so far behind, or so high, the receiver has no opportunity to continue the play for additional yardage...And in the NFL an open receiver is sometimes a very, very small window...EJ struggles mightily in this area...And I'm not so sure this is a coach-able thing...I'm not saying I know...I'm just uncertain... IMHO...Those who claim EJ struggles reading Defenses are ill informed...Or at the very least they are not grasping the whole story...He's a young QB...He's not perfect reading Defenses, don't get me wrong...What young QB is? But through this early stage of his career had EJ simply hit the open receivers in stride 65% of the time he would be a top 15 QB in the NFL easily...Probably top 10...This is an area where a QB like Russell Wilson pulls ahead of the pack despite somewhat average passing stats...He's a career 63% passer, which is average (tied for 18th in 2014)...He's only completed 57% of his passes this postseason...Is anyone claiming Russell Wilson is struggling reading Defenses this postseason? I did not think so...But pay close attention to ball placement, especially on mid-longer range passes...He's got deadly ball placement...Especially when he gets a receiver running open...And that turns into points and big plays...Something that has been lacking in EJ's game for a while now... Now before anyone jumps on the Wilson thing I do realize he's amazing on his feet as well and extends plays as good as any QB not named Rogers or Big Ben...But IMHO without his ability to hit receivers in stride he would not make it in the NFL...At least he would not be anywhere near as effective... So as far as I'm concerned EJ either improves his ball placement or he's done...It keeps the chains moving and turns into big plays...Especially when you have a WR like Sammy on the other end...Plain and simple... Edited January 22, 2015 by KOKBILLS
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