Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 You think this happened AFTER the officials (supposedly) tested them? Of course. On the sidelines.
Fixxxer Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 From a patriots fan mouth (from PFT) Im a lifelong pats fan and am so sick of this. we have the best coach in league history and he continues to look for every advantage that can be found. often times he doesnt NEED to do these things yet continues to do them. its US patriot fans who have to pay the price for this. there’s now legit debate upcoming as it pertains to how often this has happened and i cant argue against that. Belichick brings ALL of this on himself while taking down every player on the team and the owner himself for these selfish actions. we didnt NEED to do this to beat Indy but that doesnt matter. what MATTERS is we got caught cheating AGAIN. hard to imagine anything short of a severe penalty coming down the pike and i cant blame the NFL for doing so. this validates ALL of the hatred directed at NE. ALL OF IT. while i respect his knowledge and aptitude i loathe his decision making in regards to circumstances like this. thanks Bill. your players and fans surely appreciate the hell thats about to reign down http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/report-nfl-found-11-of-12-patriots-footballs-under-inflated/
NoSaint Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Rubbing all the balls down to get the new ball shininess off them is a completely different thing. if they were supposed to be nfl care and untouched, im not sure its COMPLETELY different - though i will agree its not the same.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I would not be shocked if the Bills altered used altered balls for the glove-wearing Mary in the late season home games of 2007-08. If they didn't, they should have ...
Pneumonic Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Of course. On the sidelines. That would mean having someone let air out, in what would have had to have been a very precise, controlled and measured way (in order for 11 of the balls to have been under-inflated similarly) in front of a plethora of cameras, reporters, fans, security personnel, players, league officials, etc and not getting caught. Does this not defy logic?
May Day 10 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 From a patriots fan mouth (from PFT) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/report-nfl-found-11-of-12-patriots-footballs-under-inflated/ I was reading similar stuff on the comments on ESPN articles.
Fadingpain Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Of course. On the sidelines. Or before the game in the locker room. The balls were looked at 2 hours and 15 minutes before opening kickoff apparently. Plenty of time to doctor those babies anywhere really, under any conditions.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Patriots obviously tampered with the footballs. They did, in fact, cheat and get busted. That said, if they were the Raiders, who in their heyday openly bragged about cheating as part of their core philosophy, everyone would wink, nod and praise them for being anti-establishment renegades who defy the powerful elites of NFL authority. It would only add to their lore and charm. However, because the Patriots have a more corporate image the standard is different in the court of public opinion. They are somehow considered the establishment team abusing power. They are perceived as The Suits that the charming rebels of Oakland fought against representing regular people everywhere. In reality, the Patriots and the old Raiders were cut from the same cloth, pushed the rules, and had the talent to back it up with championships. As we see from the plight of the Raiders the past decade, if you stink it doesn't matter how much stickum you apply or air you deflate from the balls. You stink you get beat, you have talent you win. The extra edge you can get from playing it sneaky or dirty may be against the rules, but whether it's considered right or wrong is a matter of subjective perception. Very good post.
l< j Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 "Jerry" is having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that the Brady Pats have surpassed his 49ers. Someone in this conversation is having a hard time coming to grips with facts. But it ain't Rice. kj
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 USA Today writer says they should ban The Patriots from the Super Bowl. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/patriots-deflate-ball-super-bowl-disqualified-penalties-sanctions Of course it's unrealistic but just shows how big a story it has become.
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That would mean having someone let air out, in what would have had to have been a very precise, controlled and measured way (in order for 11 of the balls to have been under-inflated similarly) in front of a plethora of cameras, reporters, fans, security personnel, players, league officials, etc and not getting caught. Does this not defy logic? No. It's not like the balls have a security camera on them at all times. And it's not like you need sophisticated equipment to deflate them similarly - stick an inflation needle in each one, count to three, remove needle. That's more than enough consistency, particularly within the reported accuracy of the pressure gauges they use.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Or before the game in the locker room. The balls were looked at 2 hours and 15 minutes before opening kickoff apparently. Plenty of time to doctor those babies anywhere really, under any conditions. Yep. There was an article linked above that showed how easy it is to be done on the sidelines but you're absolutely right, it could be anywhere, and done easily. No. It's not like the balls have a security camera on them at all times. And it's not like you need sophisticated equipment to deflate them similarly - stick an inflation needle in each one, count to three, remove needle. That's more than enough consistency, particularly within the reported accuracy of the pressure gauges they use. To your earlier question, 11 of the 12 balls were found to be 2-3 pounds low, according to Gerry Austin, the former referee, who seems to know what happened at the game.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) No. It's not like the balls have a security camera on them at all times. And it's not like you need sophisticated equipment to deflate them similarly - stick an inflation needle in each one, count to three, remove needle. That's more than enough consistency, particularly within the reported accuracy of the pressure gauges they use. I was going to say the same. One possible solution: It looks like Brady may be the culprit here, and Belichick may be (mostly) blameless. What about suspending Brady for one game -- the one in 12 days? Is what Dominic Raiola did any worse? Edited January 21, 2015 by dave mcbride
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 USA Today writer says they should ban The Patriots from the Super Bowl. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/patriots-deflate-ball-super-bowl-disqualified-penalties-sanctions Of course it's unrealistic but just shows how big a story it has become. And the fact that they won't is precisely why the Patriots do this. What penalty is a Superbowl appearance worth? Some people keep saying "$25,000 fine," but I'd have to believe that any owner in the league would shell out that much to increase their chances of getting to the Superbowl. Not that I'm suggesting they should be banned from the Superbowl...just pointing out that, from a risk/reward basis, cheating like this makes complete sense.
Fadingpain Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That would mean having someone let air out, in what would have had to have been a very precise, controlled and measured way (in order for 11 of the balls to have been under-inflated similarly) in front of a plethora of cameras, reporters, fans, security personnel, players, league officials, etc and not getting caught. Does this not defy logic? Not really. Check out the linked article upthread in which an ex NCAA equipment guy comments on doctoring balls every week, before the game. Sometimes done inside in locker room in controlled environment, sometimes on sideline! He said you might do it on bench while concealing ball, or just on turf behind sideline with other guys shielding you.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 if they were supposed to be nfl care and untouched, im not sure its COMPLETELY different - though i will agree its not the same. I meant completely different in so far as it's making them more normal, not less normal. I wasnt counting whether or not it was sanctioned or wrong or whatever. In that respect, as you said, it's not completely different, it's just different. And the fact that they won't is precisely why the Patriots do this. What penalty is a Superbowl appearance worth? Some people keep saying "$25,000 fine," but I'd have to believe that any owner in the league would shell out that much to increase their chances of getting to the Superbowl. Not that I'm suggesting they should be banned from the Superbowl...just pointing out that, from a risk/reward basis, cheating like this makes complete sense. The thing is, if Bellichick or Kraft or Brady is banned, the game probably gets more publicity and higher ratings and makes more money, and the NFL looks good in the majority of fans minds.
BRH Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I still think the league's going to come back and tuck-rule this one. "The rule says the balls have to weigh in at 12.5-13.5psi, it never said they have to weigh that much during the game. You all just didn't understand the rule." That would be my first guess too. And if it was a different team with no history of cheating, I'm sure that's what they would have already done. But this is, I think, already beyond the league's control.
The Poojer Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 whoa, this goes a lot deeper than just the Pats and the NFL..... #DeflateGate
BRH Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Not really. Check out the linked article upthread in which an ex NCAA equipment guy comments on doctoring balls every week, before the game. Sometimes done inside in locker room in controlled environment, sometimes on sideline! He said you might do it on bench while concealing ball, or just on turf behind sideline with other guys shielding you. I expect that guy to get a nice check in the mail soon from Bob Kraft.
B-Man Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 More internet humor....................submitted to demonstrate that this story is not just Buffalo fans whining. Dearest Martha, It seems our rivals bear little honour. I may be defeated, but I am not deflated. Yours, Gen. A. Luck
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