NoSaint Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 lol! Thats a gag article, right? i dont think so. i think it underscores, if a player can pull that off, that balls under team control are probably pretty consistently messed with. it still surprises me (and has for awhile) that teams provide their own and the league doesnt just show up with a fresh batch weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 He didn't say that, did he? In fact, in the ESPN article I linked to above, he said that he likes the ball to be inflated "as much as possible" basically, and he was complaining when NFL officials always lower the pressure to bring it within that 1 PSI accepted range. He was also saying there is no real competitive advantage to inflating the ball MORE...it's just how he likes it. So the maximum PSI limit should be eliminated in Rodgers view, while the lower limit should be retained. Violating the lower limit is where the advantage is to be gained for most guys, most of the time according to Rodgers. Did he admit to illegally over-inflating balls? I didn't catch that if he has said that in the past! I thought he also said somewhere they will over-inflate and see if the ref catches it - I assume they meant before the pre-game measurement. If that's the case (and I could be wrong), it is dodgy, but much less of a cheat than tampering with the balls after they have been measured and marked. The pre-measurement version is more like an OL holding and hoping the ref doesn't notice, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I wonder if when they said it was 2 PSI out, if they meant measuring to the 12.5 PSI or the 11.5 PSI because the NFL dictates a range from 11.5 - 12.5 PSI. I thought it was 12.5-13.5. I also interpret the articles to mean "below the minimum allowed," which is why I used 12.5. If it's 11.5, do the math accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 you have to figure the refs were under the assumption and always are that the ball have been QCd. Their minds are concentrated on all the other stuff. Also maybe/probably had gloves on? Also they dont really grip the ball tightly. They also dont typically handle footballs all week every week like the players do, which explains why the Indy LB was able to detect it right away. Probably right when he corralled it and started to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 i dont think so. i think it underscores, if a player can pull that off, that balls under team control are probably pretty consistently messed with. it still surprises me (and has for awhile) that teams provide their own and the league doesnt just show up with a fresh batch weekly. I think what Johnson implied he had the guys do was simply rub them down to get the shiny new ball slipperiness off them that would have happened in the normal course of a game after a few plays. That's a little different than altering them. No different than a pitcher in baseball rubbing the ball in his hands a couple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I thought it was 12.5-13.5. I also interpret the articles to mean "below the minimum allowed," which is why I used 12.5. If it's 11.5, do the math accordingly. It still would have been more than 1 PSI out from the minimum if it's 11.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) you have to figure the refs were under the assumption and always are that the ball have been QCd. Their minds are concentrated on all the other stuff. Also maybe/probably had gloves on? Also they dont really grip the ball tightly. They also dont typically handle footballs all week every week like the players do, which explains why the Indy LB was able to detect it right away. Probably right when he corralled it and started to run. The fact that it was discovered on an int by a linebacker who seemed to notice a difference is the key to me. One, that no one would have known without the turnover and run back. And two, that it seemed so obvious to Jackson that he did something about it ( or the equipment guy noticed so quickly). If this happened a lot, or everyone did defense, that likely wouldn't have happened. Or things like that would have happened a lot. Edited January 21, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Let's say your 8 year old son takes $5 from your wallet left on a night stand while you were out mowing the lawn. You note the loss of the $5 bill and for some reason confront the 8 year old regarding this. He says he knows nothing about it. You later find out from your 10 year old daughter (eye witness) that the boy took the $5 and she told him he would be sorry. Do you say "no big deal, it is only $5. That's not a lot of money and it doesn't really impact the economics of running my household" or do you freak out b/c your 8 year old is learning at a young age to steal, be dishonest, and lie? Is this a "minor infraction" or a very serious matter for you? To me, that is perfectly analogous to Deflate-gate. It would be important to me because I want my son to grow to be a man of character. In this case the lack of character of the Patriots organization is already well known and documented, their character is not going to improve one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Gerry Austin on Mike and Mike, his understanding was all 24 measured at haltime, all the Colts balls were fine, all the Pats balls were deflated. His conclusion was someone deflated them. Now, he also said they would have been inflated to proper pressure at half. The narrative will become..."second half is when Pats blew them out...not a story" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 lol! Thats a gag article, right? i don't believe so. They were just talking about it on mike and mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 that's Aaron and not Brady. 11 balls exactly 2 pounds under regulation. no way in hell that's a coincidence!! DC Tom's a physicist lets ask him the odds of that happening I've already written these things up-thread (and not too far either). I totally agree with you... But the post I was responding to was talking about Rodgers, not Brady, so that's why I commented on Rodgers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well, I am a physicist, so let's do the math: The relation between pressure and gas are constant, so it's an easy calculation. P/T = C. But it doesn't matter what C is, since we're comparing two different ratios to each other, i.e. (P/T)pregame = (P/T)outdoors. Going by recollection, game-time temperatures were about 4 degrees Celsius. Indoor were probably on the order of 72 degrees F - let's take the high end and call it 24C. Convert to Kelvins, that's about 277K and 299K, respectively. So inflate the balls to 12.5psi pregame, and (12.5/297) = (P/277). Pressure at game-time temps is 277*12.5/297 = 11.6psi. Claims seem to be that the balls were measured at 10.5psi. Even assuming the pressure gauge is inaccurate, if it's inaccurate to the point of being a pound off, then the league can't accurately measure the inflation of the balls to begin with (given that the acceptable range of inflation would be equal to the error of the gauge.) If that particular gauge was measuring low by a pound, then the league screwed up in using a defective gauge. If, however, the gauges were accurate, somebody deflated the balls during the game by about one psi. I'm inclined to believe the latter, for two reasons: 1) Reports are that all the balls were deflated to the same pressure, which in itself implies accuracy in measurement, and 2) I hate The Brady and The Hoodie. But no matter the cause, this represents a serious lack of quality control by the league, which is particularly alarming given that it's a league that goes to excessively nitpicky lengths to define on-field rules (like what is and is not a complete pass) in the name of quality. Excellent. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Gerry Austin on Mike and Mike, his understanding was all 24 measured at haltime, all the Colts balls were fine, all the Pats balls were deflated. His conclusion was someone deflated them. Now, he also said they would have been inflated to proper pressure at half. The narrative will become..."second half is when Pats blew them out...not a story" I could see that being the narrative but in mind, it doesn't matter. The outcome of the game is not part of the equation. They still cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Gerry Austin on Mike and Mike, his understanding was all 24 measured at haltime, all the Colts balls were fine, all the Pats balls were deflated. His conclusion was someone deflated them. Now, he also said they would have been inflated to proper pressure at half. The narrative will become..."second half is when Pats blew them out...not a story" I listened too. He said they would have been...but he didn't know for a fact that they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I listened too. He said they would have been...but he didn't know for a fact that they were. True...but this will all come out of the "investigation". It will be determined the balls did not affect the outcome, will lose a 7th round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You make two assumptions here which may not be correct. First, you assume the balls were doctored in warm air indoors. The above linked article talking about a NCAA equipment guy who routinely doctors balls before all games said sometimes they do it indoors, sometimes right on the sideline during games. Had the balls been doctored outdoors, they would have dropped PSI by 2, not 1. Secondly, you assume no one within the Patriots organization is aware of the relationships between pressure, temperature, and volume. They could have doctored the balls indoors and deliberately That made no sense. Show me the math behind that. True...but this will all come out of the "investigation". It will be determined the balls did not affect the outcome, will lose a 7th round pick And be granted a compensatory fourth for losing some free agent no one's ever heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 @MikeReiss: Via @NFLSTROUD, the story of Buccaneers QB Brad Johnson paying to have footballs altered before Super Bowl: http://t.co/a1emXAPPnC Thanks again Yolo. Another interesting read. Brad Johnson paid off NFL ball handlers to the tune of $7,500 to have all 100 game balls "doctored" (scuffed up as he didn't like new balls) prior to Superbowl 37. In that Superbowl, both teams used the same common balls and they were controlled by the NFL throughout. Johnson got to them before the game and had them scuff away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I thought it was 12.5-13.5. I also interpret the articles to mean "below the minimum allowed," which is why I used 12.5. If it's 11.5, do the math accordingly. it is the balls are required to be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces. Edited January 21, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I hope they lose picks for this and cap space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 To me, the weather dropping the temperature excuse is kind of dumb because this would have been an issue 1000 times before if that were the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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