NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 No I'm not back to that argument. Nor was I ever on that argument. I'm simply stating that Goodell and Kraft are buddy buddy and the favoritism showed towards the Patriots is detrimental to the league. It's a joke. What exactly are you arguing? The evidence is there, you have to really try hard not to see it. what is the favoritism of catching them publicly, and why would they then proceed to sweep it under the rug afterwards? I dont understand why anyone is assuming goodell-kraft will make it all disappear if the relationship didnt prevent the public spectacle in the first place.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 The weather/atmosphere argument is completely off the table unless you believe the Wilson Sports company is conspiring against the Patriots. So what other explanation is there to even talk about? The Patriots intentionally deflated their balls. Im not sure how many times i can repeat it before you get off the crusade of hearing what you want to hear 1) we still do not know how many balls were under inflated 2) we still do not know how under inflated any of them were 3) we still do not know the effect of that under inflation 4) we still do not know how commonplace it is ill say again, i think they probably were gaming the system here to get the balls to where they like them. i also think their stories are all over the place and just trying to avoid penalty. im not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the points 1-4 are still unsettled though.
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) If the Patriots aren't guilty then why is god dumping 2 feet of snow on New England right now??? Edited January 26, 2015 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain
4merper4mer Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) unfortunately, its gotten a bit muddy so a lot of people are confusing "evidence" and "facts" with "unnamed leaks that have contradictions" and "claims that sound crazy when you stop to think about them" as i said, i havent denied the pats did anything to the balls here. simply questioned what was actually found (as we have several different reports as to the number of balls that failed and how badly they failed) what the effect would be (as we have seen people argue everything from a visually saggy ball that would make you cry if you knew how big a deal it was too no advantage at all) and how wide spread it is (as we have seen college and pro examples and some say everyone does it while others say no one) Here's the deal: 1. They cheated 2. They got blown in by somebody and were surprised by it. 3. The league knows this looks bad the week before the Super Bowl 4. The Pats know how bad this is for them because they cheated before. They have to go with "demand the league prove it" strategy because it is all they have. Calling random press conferences to teach incorrect science is not the "Patriot way" and they are only doing it to take preemptive shots and try to force the burden of proof on the league. The burden of proof needs to be on the Pats because they had correctly specified footballs handed to them and under their watch the footballs became out of spec. They are banking on the league being lily livered. 5. The league has no idea whether it should be passive or aggressive and they are still trying to figure it out. I think it could go either way. I don't think the league realizes how highly suspect the fans of 31 NFL teams are towards the Pats. If this happened to GB, Denver, Seattle or anyone else it would be over by now. It would have probably have never been reported or if so it would have been done privately. The Pats probably got blown in because some straw broke some camel's back....probably the "ineligible flip flop fool the 90 year old ref" play from the Bal game. Edited January 26, 2015 by 4merper4mer
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 The Colts complained and Walt Anderson came out and said 11 of the 12 balls were deflated at half time. How do you prevent that public spectacle? you simply tell bob kraft "hey, weve received complaints, dont do it, or you will fail a public test tomorrow. there are dozens of articles on this that address that many believe tagliabue wouldve handled it that way instead of setting up the pats for public shame.
plenzmd1 Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) im not saying ignore the whole story or nothing happened, but.... feel free to atleast stick to arguments that make sense, and there has been some interesting commentary on each side I am with you Saint, and also Alpha. I think it is well documented in this thread i think the the Pats did something, and i think their Press Conference contradictions on Thursday and Saturday are very telling...but that the NFL is saying nothing is really starting to feel fishy to me. I am actually starting to feel a bit sorry for the Pats and their fans...and i never thought that could ever happen. This seems so simple to me , all the NFL has to release 1) Here is where the Pats and Colts balls started pre game 2) here is what they were at half 3) here is what they were at end of game. If there are discrepancies, just say we are investigating how this could have happened and that may take several weeks. If there are no inconsistencies...well lets move the fug on and leave this crap in the background.Nothing more to investigate. I am coming around to Alpha thinking NFL is loving this. As Bills fans we have what we want now...reason to talk chit to every Pat fan we know till BB and TB leave Edited January 26, 2015 by plenzmd1
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Im not sure how many times i can repeat it before you get off the crusade of hearing what you want to hear 1) we still do not know how many balls were under inflated 2) we still do not know how under inflated any of them were 3) we still do not know the effect of that under inflation 4) we still do not know how commonplace it is ill say again, i think they probably were gaming the system here to get the balls to where they like them. i also think their stories are all over the place and just trying to avoid penalty. im not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the points 1-4 are still unsettled though. I don't need the league to make an official statement to consider it settled. There's a reason they put out leaks. We already know 11 of the balls were underinflated and that at least 1 was by 2 lbs. of pressure.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Walt Anderson said 11 of the 12 Patriot Balls were underdeflated and NONE of the Colts balls were. That's been stated numerous times. we have heard a peter king opinion that its 12 of 12, heard that it was 11 of 12 that were 2lbs under and 1 was less deflated, and recently that 11 of 12 were just a little under and one in the 2 lbs under range. walt says 11 low and 1 good. thats kind of my question with how many and how much.
4merper4mer Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 The only reason this isn't over with is because the Superbowl is on Sunday and the Patriots are playing in it. They are stalling because they don't want to ruin the Superbowl. Plain and simple. That's a big part of it but I don't think it is all of it.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 I am with you Saint, and also Alpha. I think it is well documented in this thread i think the the Pats did something, and i think their Press Conference contradictions on Thursday and Saturday are very telling...but that the NFL is saying nothing is really starting to feel fishy to me. I am actually starting to feel a bit sorry for the Pats and their fans...and i never thought that could never happen. This seems so simple to me for the NFL to release 1) Here is where the Pats and Colts balls started pre game 2) here is what they were at half 3) here is what they were at end of game. If there are discrepancies, just say we are investigating how this could have happened and that may take several weeks. If there are no inconsistencies...well lets move the fug on and leave this crap in the background.Nothing more to investigate. I am coming around to Alpha thinking NFL is loving this. As Bills fans we have what we want now...reason to talk chit to every Pat fan we know till BB and TB leave its surely ramping up talk on a super bowl that was expected to be a little lackluster. remember a week ago when we had a thread where everyone claimed they werent going to watch? now its nonstop coverage and all those people are tuning into tv shows, clicking links, etc... i dont think they created for entertainment value but i wouldnt be shocked if some owners didnt mind the attention. i think they probably actually did some against the rules stuff with the balls, but man, some of the arguments and statements of "fact" really drive me nuts.
plenzmd1 Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Walt Anderson said 11 of the 12 Patriot Balls were underdeflated and NONE of the Colts balls were. That's been stated numerous times. That Walt Anderson quoted a source, not the NFL, Another source today is saying 11 of the 12 less than 1 PSI off....again not the NFL. What Saint is saying, and what has been bothering me too...is the NFL just not coming clean of what/why they are investigating...seems freaking basic to me.
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Lol. Got it. So you need the exact loss in PSI and you need to know if its 11 of 12 or 12 of 12 balls deflated to determine if the Patriots cheated or not. Well it's not like this coach has been caught cheating before so he deserves he benefit of the doubt.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 If this was not an enormous issue, and a clear violation of the rules, the NFL would have done something to squash it a week ago so it did not evolve into what it has. Unless you believe that the NFL somehow wants this because it would boost ratings and is a cash cow. I cannot subscribe to that theory at all, although I guess it is within the realm of possibility. If that were to be true, and the NFL wants the publicity and money, they would come down hard on the Patriots, suspend Brady, the game would set every record for viewership, the majority of fans would LOVE Goodell and the NFL because they hate the Patriots, Brady and The Devil Wears Hoodies, and it would benefit them far more than this, as well as deter future cheating since teams and players would think if they did this to the Pats, what would they do to me.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Lol. Got it. So you need the exact loss in PSI and you need to know if its 11 of 12 or 12 of 12 balls deflated to determine if the Patriots cheated or not. you are not good at reading. im saying im waiting to figure out whether its a "meh" issue or an "crying on national tv" one if 11 of the balls are like 1lbs low and everyone dances around the edges of it and its not a huge difference - they broke the rules, but sometimes i too go 65 in a 55 if all the balls are way low and its something that would account for huge advantages with dozens fewer fumbles and winging balls 10 yards further with ease and no one else does it while they have for a decade -- hammer them.
plenzmd1 Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 its surely ramping up talk on a super bowl that was expected to be a little lackluster. remember a week ago when we had a thread where everyone claimed they werent going to watch? now its nonstop coverage and all those people are tuning into tv shows, clicking links, etc... i dont think they created for entertainment value but i wouldnt be shocked if some owners didnt mind the attention. i think they probably actually did some against the rules stuff with the balls, but man, some of the arguments and statements of "fact" really drive me nuts. what is that saying the NFL wants to own every month of the calendar? Now, if they can drag this out through February 17th and the combine, they got February covered
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 what is that saying the NFL wants to own every month of the calendar? Now, if they can drag this out through February 17th and the combine, they got February covered roll right into free agency from there and than draft guides start rolling out!
Prickly Pete Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Im not sure how many times i can repeat it before you get off the crusade of hearing what you want to hear 1) we still do not know how many balls were under inflated 2) we still do not know how under inflated any of them were 3) we still do not know the effect of that under inflation 4) we still do not know how commonplace it is ill say again, i think they probably were gaming the system here to get the balls to where they like them. i also think their stories are all over the place and just trying to avoid penalty. im not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the points 1-4 are still unsettled though. And of course.. 5) we don't know how much advantage is actually gained by deflating a ball (or what the disadvantages might be as well) One thing we do know, there is a long line of fans, coaches, and players that have varying degrees of animosity towards the Patriots. Some of them on the extreme end, and many of them located in the town that has one of the all-time worst franchises in sports during the Patriots domination.
plenzmd1 Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Saint and Alpha...you would do wise to keep your agruments well clear of HoF...guilt by association
Deranged Rhino Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 One thing we do know, there is a long line of fans, coaches, and players that have varying degrees of animosity towards the Patriots. Some of them on the extreme end, and many of them located in the town that has one of the all-time worst franchises in sports during the Patriots domination. Wow. Shots fired.
plenzmd1 Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Wow. Shots fired. Hes just trolling...thats why i said last week we just need to ignore him...we could actually debate both sides with some modicrum of intelligence without his nonsense.
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