freeagentqb Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The difference is not very obvious and the officials only handle it for a short time. Never seen an official squeezing a ball or giving it any extra scrutiny. Game officials should not be expected to notice such a small difference without some advance warning or reason for increased scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 If they have been doing this for seasons (like the fumble counters suggest) and if it is so easy and obvious when a ball is deflated, how could the officials miss it? An official handles the ball before every play. Wouldn't there at least have been a warning, or an official that rejected a ball to be re-inflated, or SOME kind of prior instance that an official would let the "League Office" know about at some point in the investigation? "Gee Boss, yeah, I remember a few times where I rejected a ball, because it didn't seem right". If there hasn't even been that kind of incident, then I really doubt they have been doing this for years on end. OR Maybe, just MAYBE, deflating the ball a little might just be a very common practice throughout the NFL (and college) that the officials turn a blind eye to, and the only reason the Pats got hassled is because a whiner like Harbaugh (those guys are just as insufferable as Belichick) made a big deal about it? HoF Edelman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) If they have been doing this for seasons (like the fumble counters suggest) and if it is so easy and obvious when a ball is deflated, how could the officials miss it? An official handles the ball before every play. Wouldn't there at least have been a warning, or an official that rejected a ball to be re-inflated, or SOME kind of prior instance that an official would let the "League Office" know about at some point in the investigation? I'm not sure that it is very obvious unless you are comparing two footballs side by side or have a highly tuned sense of the grip such as a QB would have. I'm would think that the officials are thinking about everything else on the field but this. Edited January 25, 2015 by Andy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 AN article from 2013... http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/not-for-attribution/longtime-college-football-equipment-manager-everyone-cheats-deflates-184104713.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 AN article from 2013... http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/not-for-attribution/longtime-college-football-equipment-manager-everyone-cheats-deflates-184104713.html The title of the article even defines the act as cheating. You can do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The title of the article even defines the act as cheating. That's pretty funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The title of the article even defines the act as cheating. You can do better than that. I've never claimed it wasn't cheating, I claimed it's common practice, and that every game both teams have players or coaches or GM's that have cheated/ or are cheating. I don't consider it a serious transgression. That's pretty funny! The title is the writer's opinion. The content is from an actual manager, who claims it is common practice. The title of the article even defines the act as cheating. You can do better than that. SO how about an actual counter to the content of the article, smart guy? Do YOU believe it is common practice and happening in most NFL games? Edited January 25, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 My concern that the league will end up making some excuse and do nothing comes from today's Bellichick press conference. This isn't the police investigating criminals, it's the NFL investigating a team that they're stuck with through thick and thin. To think the Patriots and the league haven't been in constant contact with each other through all this would be foolish. The Patriots aren't just sitting around in the dark waiting to see what happens. It's in the league's, the players', and the teams' best interest to contain the damage. With that said, there's no such thing as an impromptu press conference by a head coach during something like this. Not only would Bellichick never call a press conference before conferring with the league first, it was probably their idea to begin with and they probably told him what to say. Why does that matter? Because the league would never allow him to go out and deny all the allegations again, after "thorough testing" only to turn around a few days later and call him a liar and punish him. EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO, there's no way they could without causing the biggest scandal the sport has ever seen. I mean could you imagine the league and a coach going to war over something like that? We're talking federal courts, REAL lawsuits, etc. So unless Bellichick has completely gone off the reservation and is about to start a real, judicial war against the league... the only other explanation is that the league asked him to get out in front of this thing a day or two before they announce they've found the Patriots innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 SO how about an actual counter to the content of the article? Do YOU believe it is common practice?I think it may be a common practice with a few franchises. Or maybe a few players. The NFL has caught someone in the act. It's all out there and a lot of people are upset. Now is their chance to make it right. Sterorid use was common in baseball, and is a serious mark on the MLB. Records are tainted. Everything from the sterorid era is questioned. The NFL, at the peak of its popularity, doesn't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think it may be a common practice with a few franchises. Or maybe a few players. The NFL has caught someone in the act. It's all out there and a lot of people are upset. Now is their chance to make it right. Sterorid use was common in baseball, and is a serious mark on the MLB. Records are tainted. Everything from the sterorid era is questioned. The NFL, at the peak of its popularity, doesn't want that. I consider PED's way more serious, and I believe that every NFL team has multiple players using them. If they want to get rid of them, I'm all for it. The penalties that people are suggesting (forfeiting the Indy game? year long suspension?) are way out of line for this type of offense. This would be the first time the league has penalized at team for this (as far as I know), so year long suspensions (even for a franchise with past transgressions for completely different infractions). The current penalty starts at $25.000, it's a huge leap from that, to year long suspensions, and game forfeiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 My concern that the league will end up making some excuse and do nothing comes from today's Bellichick press conference. This isn't the police investigating criminals, it's the NFL investigating a team that they're stuck with through thick and thin. To think the Patriots and the league haven't been in constant contact with each other through all this would be foolish. The Patriots aren't just sitting around in the dark waiting to see what happens. It's in the league's, the players', and the teams' best interest to contain the damage. With that said, there's no such thing as an impromptu press conference by a head coach during something like this. Not only would Bellichick never call a press conference before conferring with the league first, it was probably their idea to begin with and they probably told him what to say. Why does that matter? Because the league would never allow him to go out and deny all the allegations again, after "thorough testing" only to turn around a few days later and call him a liar and punish him. EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO, there's no way they could without causing the biggest scandal the sport has ever seen. I mean could you imagine the league and a coach going to war over something like that? We're talking federal courts, REAL lawsuits, etc. So unless Bellichick has completely gone off the reservation and is about to start a real, judicial war against the league... the only other explanation is that the league asked him to get out in front of this thing a day or two before they announce they've found the Patriots innocent. Unfortunately, I think you may be right. The League has been in under the rug sweep mode all week. It also seems like the deflection angle may have worked with the media. The NBC news coverage tonight was ridiculous. Kristin Welker must not have even watched the PC, as she basically reported that BB said it was all temperature-related (when he explicitly said that was NOT the cause), which sounded A-OK to her. What a joke! Until someone explains to me how the Colts balls stayed at regulation pressure while the Pats*' shrank, I remain highly skeptical of BB's response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Everything from the sterorid era is questioned. The NFL, at the peak of its popularity, doesn't want that. Too late. Everything from the Patriot** cheater era of the past 15 is already questioned for them, and all their 'accomplishments' tainted. Time for the NFL to clean up its Patriots** mess, just like MLB did with steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Unfortunately, I think you may be right. The League has been in under the rug sweep mode all week. It also seems like the deflection angle may have worked with the media. The NBC news coverage tonight was ridiculous. Kristin Welker must not have even watched the PC, as she basically reported that BB said it was all temperature-related (when he explicitly said that was NOT the cause), which sounded A-OK to her. What a joke! Until someone explains to me how the Colts balls stayed at regulation pressure while the Pats*' shrank, I remain highly skeptical of BB's response. When you're one of the largest private companies in the world and you have $20+ Billion contracts with all the major networks, I think you can probably dictate their news segments unfortunately. I mean can you imagine if ABC or NBC or Fox wouldn't say what the NFL wanted them to say? They'd lose the most lucrative contract those companies have ever had. They all fight amongst each other to pay literally billions of dollars for the "honor" to broadcast NFL games. The NFL *owns* them all figuratively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'm thinking Bill "retires" after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The reason the NFL is dragging it's heels, is because they know it's an infraction that's worthy of a slap on the wrist, that is being blown completely out of proportion because it's the smug, hated Patriots (as opposed to say, Blake Bortles and the Jags). I don't care about Spygate, this is nowhere near that level of an infraction. The penalty ($25,000) that is already in place makes that clear. These days, a media frenzy is purposely developed over ANYTHING that can be construed as controversial (from actors, politicians, athletes), or anything that allows people to express their opinion, no matter how uninformed (and there is plenty of misinformation, and rumors being tossed around). It's a farce, and the NFL is waiting for the media to latch upon the next click bait fuel. Edited January 25, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The reason the NFL is dragging it's heels, is because they know it's an infraction that's worthy of a slap on the wrist, that is being blown completely out of proportion because it's the smug, hated Patriots (as opposed to say, Blake Bortles and the Jags). I don't care about Spygate, this is nowhere near that level of an infraction. The penalty ($25,000) that is already in place makes that clear. These days, a media frenzy is purposely developed over ANYTHING that can be construed as controversial (from actors, politicians, athletes), or anything that allows people to express their opinion, no matter how uninformed (and there is plenty of misinformation, and rumors being tossed around). It's a farce, and the NFL is waiting for the media to latch upon the next click bait fuel. There is no penalty "already in place." You are confusing the penalty from the NCAA against the USC coach, which was $25,000, with the NFL's process. There is no specific penalty for tampering with footballs spelled out in the NFL bylaws. http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-deflategate-investigation-bill-belichick-tom-brady Article 8.13(A) of the constitution details how Goodell could punish the Patriots if he finds fault. In cases involving a violation "affecting the competitive aspects of the game," an appropriate penalty for an offending team can be forfeiture of draft choices and a fine up to $500,000. Crusade all you want, but please use facts. Also, to ignore the Patriots' history of cheating in evaluating this is silly. kj Edited January 25, 2015 by l< j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Good article in Saturday's (1/24/15) WSJ. It says that the Pats fumble less frequently than any other (non-dome) team. The article also points out that certain players (W. Welker & a few others) fumbled less frequently when they played for NE than they did when they played for other teams. The article suggests that a deflated ball is easier to hold onto. Edited January 25, 2015 by Badasss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack_in_MA Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Personally, I can't get past Belicheck's statement: “We try to do everything right. We err on the side of caution. It’s been that way for many years. Anything that is close we stay as far away from the line as we can.” If this current issue never happened, and you took a poll whether the Patriots were creative about bending the rules, don't you think it would be at odds with this statement? It seems to me they take pride in their "creativity". They may follow rules to the letter, but not the spirit. I also don't think that presser was Belicheck's idea. I think either Kraft and/or the NFL told him he had to do it because they're getting killed in the court of public opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately, I think you may be right. The League has been in under the rug sweep mode all week. It also seems like the deflection angle may have worked with the media. The NBC news coverage tonight was ridiculous. Kristin Welker must not have even watched the PC, as she basically reported that BB said it was all temperature-related (when he explicitly said that was NOT the cause), which sounded A-OK to her. What a joke! Until someone explains to me how the Colts balls stayed at regulation pressure while the Pats*' shrank, I remain highly skeptical of BB's response. Two different prep methods and two different starting numbers? It's possible the pats would shrink more and from a lower starting point Personally, I can't get past Belicheck's statement: We try to do everything right. We err on the side of caution. Its been that way for many years. Anything that is close we stay as far away from the line as we can. If this current issue never happened, and you took a poll whether the Patriots were creative about bending the rules, don't you think it would be at odds with this statement? It seems to me they take pride in their "creativity". They may follow rules to the letter, but not the spirit. I also don't think that presser was Belicheck's idea. I think either Kraft and/or the NFL told him he had to do it because they're getting killed in the court of public opinion. Obviously but I don't think most voters would know the letter of the rule yet alone the spirit/intent given some of the outrage over properly called situations we see here every week Edited January 25, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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