New England Patriots caught deflating game balls

[Sisyphean Bills]

Early in this some posters were acting like it should be visually obvious, and now exaggerated to 3 lbs it takes a professional handling-- I think that's atleast worth noting in the narrative. Heck, even with the fumble stats - are we saying something an average joe can't feel is creating the type of gap many are saying proves it?

 

Well, the balls were underinflated. Nobody can deny that.

 

No one can deny that there is a rule about this aspect of the game.

 

No one can deny that the NFL has a process to specifically measure the pressure in footballs before each and every game.

 

That's not following the rules. That's the definition of cheating: "to break a rule or law".

 

 

Arguing about how much of a competitive advantage it provides, etc. is purely posturing. I heard some woman on NFL radio going off that "all the teams underinflate their balls" so the Patriots are just being persecuted for being her team...

[MattM]

On the contrary, I now think there will be a similar score, but with the Pats winning. Remember the season after spygate? The Pats put the petal to the metal and crushed everyone they played. No slowdown no matter how big their lead. They were making a point, that they didn't need to cheat to win. I see the same thing happening here - it's kind of their only way to say to the world - we truly were the best team in the NFL, no matter the ball pressure.

Until that last game, right? You also conveniently forget that just like here, they were distracted by another cheating scandal. See a trend?

[Beerball]

 

Well, the balls were underinflated. Nobody can deny that.

 

No one can deny that there is a rule about this aspect of the game.

 

No one can deny that the NFL has a process to specifically measure the pressure in footballs before each and every game.

 

That's not following the rules. That's the definition of cheating: "to break a rule or law".

 

 

Arguing about how much of a competitive advantage it provides, etc. is purely posturing. I heard some woman on NFL radio going off that "all the teams underinflate their balls" so the Patriots are just being persecuted for being her team...

And yet here we are 109 pages later.

[filthymcnasty08]

 

Well, the balls were underinflated. Nobody can deny that.

 

No one can deny that there is a rule about this aspect of the game.

 

No one can deny that the NFL has a process to specifically measure the pressure in footballs before each and every game.

 

That's not following the rules. That's the definition of cheating: "to break a rule or law".

 

 

Arguing about how much of a competitive advantage it provides, etc. is purely posturing. I heard some woman on NFL radio going off that "all the teams underinflate their balls" so the Patriots are just being persecuted for being her team...

Of course NFL radio found a way to get her on the air….

 

done with that station….they were right out in front of the "nothing to see here….move on" damage control as soon as the news broke.

 

He's a grand master at telekinesis?

What about the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away…..

 

 

WITH MIND BULLETS!!!!!

[NoSaint]

 

Well, the balls were underinflated. Nobody can deny that.

 

No one can deny that there is a rule about this aspect of the game.

 

No one can deny that the NFL has a process to specifically measure the pressure in footballs before each and every game.

 

That's not following the rules. That's the definition of cheating: "to break a rule or law".

 

 

Arguing about how much of a competitive advantage it provides, etc. is purely posturing. I heard some woman on NFL radio going off that "all the teams underinflate their balls" so the Patriots are just being persecuted for being her team...

Didn't argue they were fully inflated

Didn't argue it was no advantage

But just like any other rule/penalty you would look at the type of advantage gained and how widely violated/enforced it is....

[May Day 10]

The nfl will wait it out. Next week and the superbowl will dull it out and it will be fashionable to not care. The nfl findings will be vague enough and they control enough media and information where they will be able to control the narratives. Enough fodder will be provided to the innocent until belichick is on film measurably cheating with fingerprints and eye scans. The everybody dies it crowd. And the who cares everybody should try to cheat to win crowd. Oh yeah the it's only football crowd.

 

It'll go aeay. Not much will come of it. We are all basically a captive audience. We know it. They know it.

 

I just wonder what is up behind closed doors. What do the other owners say? They likely have more information than we do and are overall very wise. They also have more to lose than we do. Doesn't pegula stand up and say we are in a 4 team division with these guys and if things aren't on the up and up, our franchise has been in 15 years of darkness possibly do to cheating? Is there some things we can and should be doing to even the playing field and will the nfl have our back like they do the pats?

[MattM]

Didn't argue they were fully inflated

Didn't argue it was no advantage

But just like any other rule/penalty you would look at the type of advantage gained and how widely violated/enforced it is....

But don't you agree as a general matter that a deflated football is easier to throw, catch and hang onto? And that if they've done it for a while it could impact their long-term stats?

 

Anyone else get the feeling that the coaching fraternity may have had enough Patriot* BS skirting the rules? If so, this won't be the last accusations against those guys.

[Kelly the Dog]

This may have been mentioned, but I'm sure the NFL and the Patriots and their fans will be happy to know that their very own mass murderer's first trial may start on Tuesday. That will garner quite a bit of press too.

 

In their defense, most dynasties in history have been mass murderers and cheaters, too, though.

[TheBillsWillRiseAgain]

The average person wouldn't notice a corked bat, yet it provides a huge advantage.

 

When you're talking about repeat offenders from the largest cheating scandal in NFL history, it becomes less about how much of ajar advantage it is and more about the fact that they're cheating period.

 

Anyone thinking the Patriots are being unfairly persecuted needs to realize that they forfeitted the right to get the benefit of the doubt when they were caught cheating in 2007. Period.

[peterpan]

Interesting idea, just came to me watching ESPN...

 

Inflate the ball with hot air. 120 degrees or so. Inflate to 12 psi. Officials measure, find the right pressure. Three hours later, during the game, outdoors at 40-50 degrees, balls would be down about 2 psi.

 

Not sure how you'd preheat the air before inflating the ball. I'm also not sure that you couldn't tell by the ball's warmth. And I'm not even saying the Patriots did this. But if I were going to cheat, in a way that was difficult to prove, and maintain any plausible deniability ("No, we didn't tamper with the balls. No, we didn't deflate them. They were properly inflated when the officials checked them, and we left them that way,") that'd be one way of doing it.

 

I'll add it to my list of experiments.

120 degree COMPrESSED air??? Compressing air makes it colder. You would need some serious equipment to make that happen. I say that is so unlikely it didn't happen. Zero % chance

[TheFunPolice]

All most average fans and just about all casual sports followers know is that New England* cheated.

 

Nothing else really matters.

 

Perception=reality, and there is no putting this toothpaste back in the tube.

 

Remember: fire is the Devil's only friend. Payment must be coming due.

[papazoid]

First half, NE scores only 17 points with under inflated balls.

 

Second half, NE scores 28 points, Brady comes out 8/8 and goes 12/14 and Blount runs wild with properly inflated balls.

 

NE should fire the guy who deflated the balls, thus significantly slowing down their offense in the first half....

 

this is more proof they cheated......(laffin)....right up there with that fumbling chart.

[TheFunPolice]

The Patriots* will always be regarded as the filthy slimy cheats they are.

[Mr. WEO]

this is more proof they cheated......(laffin)....right up there with that fumbling chart.

 

 

Exactly! Everyone knows that at 12.5 psi, the ball simply can't be held without fumbling, whereas at 10.5 psi, the ball cannot be dropped or dislodged.

 

This is all great theater. My favorite was watching MArk Brunell cry after Brady's press conference. This was after he, a guy who threw for over 4000 yards once in his career made the bizarre claim that he would have been able to throw a deflated football "10 yards further" (furhter than his WRs 10 yard slant pattern most likely). Although Jerome Bettis's claim that as a 300 lb RB, a ball 2 psi lower than allowed would have been much easier to hold onto was also priceless.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Mr. WEO

[l< j]

 

 

Exactly! Everyone knows that at 12.5 psi, the ball simply can't be held without fumbling, whereas at 10.5 psi, the ball cannot be dropped or dislodged.

 

This is all great theater. My favorite was watching MArk Brunell cry after Brady's press conference. This was after he, a guy who threw for over 4000 yards once in his career made the bizarre claim that he would have been able to throw a deflated football "10 yards further" (furhter than his WRs 10 yard slant pattern most likely). Although Jerome Bettis's claim that as a 300 lb RB, a ball 2 psi lower than allowed would have been much easier to hold onto.

If it were any other team, I'd be willing to dismiss this with a 5 digit fine and be done with it. But it's not. It's a team with a history of cheating and stretching the rules, led by a man who doesn't do anything unless there is an advantage to it. Context matters. Come down hard here and the Pats will think twice before doing something else shady, let alone illegal. Try to put too fine a point on it by arguing how much of an advantage it was encourages them to stretch the limits of the game further.

 

kj

[Fadingpain]

I've now seen several psychologists and body language experts comment on the "testimony" of Brady in particular...

 

They all say he was lying, and it's not even a tough read or call to make.

 

This seemed obvious at the time to most of us, but this alone is highly compelling evidence that they cheated in my opinion.

 

I don't think anyone including the Patriots is arguing that the balls did in fact have illegally low pressure. It's just a question of how it got that way.

 

If it was via any non-cheating means possible, why is Tom lying non-stop for 1/2 hour in the PC?

 

B/C they cheated of course.

 

Just a question of what the NFL thinks about this and how they want to proceed in terms of penalty, sending message, and so on.

If it were any other team, I'd be willing to dismiss this with a 5 digit fine and be done with it. But it's not. It's a team with a history of cheating and stretching the rules, led by a man who doesn't do anything unless there is an advantage to it. Context matters. Come down hard here and the Pats will think twice before doing something else shady, let alone illegal. Try to put too fine a point on it by arguing how much of an advantage it was encourages them to stretch the limits of the game further.

 

kj

I pretty much agree with everything here...but I am not sure the NFL feels this way at all, or as strong as you do.

 

Do they think context matters? Do they want to or think they need to come down hard on the Patriots to serve as a deterrent to future cheating by the Patriots or another franchise?

 

In theory, sure. In reality? I don't know.

 

If they really wanted to wipe this out of the game the Colts would be playing in the Superbowl...or Brady and Belicheat would be sitting out next year's season.

 

The penalty won't be anything near as severe as any of that, sadly.

[Mr. WEO]

he

If it were any other team, I'd be willing to dismiss this with a 5 digit fine and be done with it. But it's not. It's a team with a history of cheating and stretching the rules, led by a man who doesn't do anything unless there is an advantage to it. Context matters. Come down hard here and the Pats will think twice before doing something else shady, let alone illegal. Try to put too fine a point on it by arguing how much of an advantage it was encourages them to stretch the limits of the game further.

 

kj

 

 

Actually, the context is the NFL in 2014 being viewed as wishy washy in the Ray Rice/AP situation. They are under pressure to do something drastic to make up for that, not due to NE's history of skirting the rules.

 

As I said before, unless there is a smoking gun revelation linking directly to Brady or Belichick ordering the ball change, there will be a fine and loss of draft pick. The seriousness of the infraction (dubious advantage gained) doesn't warrant, on its own, anything grave as far as penatly goes.

[TheFunPolice]

Don't worry Pats* fans..

 

You'll get to celebrate a 4th SB won next week but don't expect anyone else to celebrate your team.

 

Your SB win will always be viewed with a *

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually, the context is the NFL in 2014 being viewed as wishy washy in the Ray Rice/AP situation. They are under pressure to do something drastic to make up for that, not due to NE's history of skirting the rules.

 

As I said before, unless there is a smoking gun revelation linking directly to Brady or Belichick ordering the ball change, there will be a fine and loss of draft pick. The seriousness of the infraction (dubious advantage gained) doesn't warrant, on its own, anything grave as far as penatly goes.

I agree with that for the most part.

 

Unless the NFL has told them after Spygate and other stuff to cut it out. And we will come down harder on you with less burden of proof, like Goodell publicly said after it. Then it's more akin to your on probation and if you do something small, regardless of what it is, you're going to jail. The last straw could be the case here. I'm not predicting it is, but I do think the NFL is absolutely furious with the Pats right now regardless of the displaced love affair with Krafty.

[Georgia Bill]

Until that last game, right? You also conveniently forget that just like here, they were distracted by another cheating scandal. See a trend?

I'll stand by my prediction. Early in their undefeated regular season they were most under scrutiny by Spygate, and they took it out on other teams. In fact they started to get criticized for inflating the score needlessly. The fact that they couldn't eek out the SB win (almost did, but for a miraculous helmet catch) does not change the fact that they seemed hell bent on crushing opponents - especially early on, to prove they did not need to cheat to win. Similar situation here, fresh allegation and all they can do now is prove they don't need underinflated footballs to win.