BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) those are CBA negotiated penalties. they already enforced all the offsides and holding calls in the games too. this is a situation where there isnt a simple circumstance and flat outcome. They are investigating and weighing punishments. that rogers not cc'ing you on internal emails doesnt mean they are ignoring it. it seems they went out of their way to create the situation, so im not sure why you are worried about them hiding it now? Ok so maybe when I say Roger I mean the NFL. He is their spokes dummy I mean spokesperson is he not? Yup -- get ready for the biggest TV audience of all time next Sunday. if the putz get more than a 2 score margin, expect the only viewing to be Katy Perry I am truly on the verge of not watching the game at all. I may DVR it for the commercials and only watch the recording if Seattle wins. Edited January 23, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Ok so maybe when I say Roger I mean the NFL. He is their spokes dummy I mean spokesperson is he not? if the putz get more than a 2 score margin, expect the only viewing to be Katy Perry right, and believe it or not, we dont have some right to be clued in at every step - despite folks thinking that on a lot of issues these days. they are doing their diligence and figuring out what to do. heaven forbid they dont tell us every step along the way, and we just get the final results when they are ready.
l< j Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Peter King weighs in with some inside information he is presenting as fact. Believe it or not, but it runs counter to what some here who want to give the Taintriots the benefit of the doubt are asserting. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/ The balls for both teams were checked with a pressure gauge 3 times: pre-game (prior to being released to the teams), halftime, and postgame. And I am with him when he writes: "There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human." http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/ Of course, the only humans who had the opportunity to tamper with them were Taintriots employees. This is evidence of cheating, solid and more than enough to punish the organization. (See Goodell's 2008 comments about not needing an airtight case when teams cheat to gain competitive advantage.) I don't care if it was the ballboys, Brady, Belichick or if Kraft himself were involved. The organization cheated, again. Loss of 2 high draft picks in 2015. kj
plenzmd1 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 The DQwell articles seemed to have that tidbit buried in it - he mentioned in the interviews that in the first half their was a delay and both teams were using colts balls. Wow...I have not heard that or seen it reported anywhere...that is significant in my mind. do you have a link?
BRH Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 The DQwell articles seemed to have that tidbit buried in it - he mentioned in the interviews that in the first half their was a delay and both teams were using colts balls. Wait, that's something new.
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Wow...I have not heard that or seen it reported anywhere...that is significant in my mind. do you have a link? was one of the links shared up thread and everyone focused on the headline, but the last paragraph was discussing the other stuff. ill see if i can find it. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24984712/did-colts-lb-dqwell-jackson-start-deflategate-on-accident midway through this its mentioned, but again, buried below "i didnt turn them in" According to Jackson, New England was using Indy's footballs late in the first half, which he found weird because 1. New England was the home team and 2. It was the AFC Championship game. Edited January 23, 2015 by NoSaint
B-Man Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Peter King weighs in with some inside information he is presenting as fact. Believe it or not, but it runs counter to what some here who want to give the Taintriots the benefit of the doubt are asserting. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/ The balls for both teams were checked with a pressure gauge 3 times: pre-game (prior to being released to the teams), halftime, and postgame. And I am with him when he writes: "There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human." http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/ kj This "checking the balls repeatedly would seem to be logical, since we now know that the Colts had already complained to the league after their November game with the Pats. .
jimmy10 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 The ISIS comparison was perhaps revealing. With ISIS, you have unequivocal immorality taking place. Did Brady basically let slip that something immoral also occurred with the Patriots, and he's only arguing about the scale of the immorality? If Brady had an un-guilty conscience and legitimately did not know how the balls were deflated (i.e. it's all a mystery to him), wouldn't the appropriate "in the news" comparison be the mysterious Malaysian Air plane disappearance? Comparing it to ISIS instead is kind of like admitting guilt. Yeah... When you find yourself in a press conference, comparing yourself favorably to terrorist organizations, chances are you're missing a scruple or two.
Thrivefourfive Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Well, we're talking about the systematic undermining of the integrity of the league. Kind of an issue. And the players don't care? You haven't been paying attention. The players I've seen have been 100% against the joke that was the Brady press conference. It's all a big lie, and apparently you're buying it. (Or a Patriot fan.) Is it a HUGE violation? No, but it is a big "up yours" from the previously convicted Pats to the rest of the league. And it is certainly a competitive advantage. That is CHEATING. I wouldn't want to do business with anyone who doesn't understand that. Not a Pats fan. Born and not raised in Buffalo. I see your points. But with this issue, the word "cheating" is used too liberally imo. There have been a lot of apples to oranges comparisons in this thread that are flat out ridiculous. Compromising the game of NFL football, huh? The whole damn sport is a compromise. Do you think that the only penalties that occur come with a yellow ribbon? It's so minor and probably very prevalent in the league. Does anybody really think that other teams don't do the same thing? It's sports man, not a life and death situation. Humans are compelled to gain a competitive advantage. That's a fact. If the league wants to discipline the Patriots then they need evidence. A dead body in Los Angeles doesn't mean that the mayor is guilty of murder. Getting back to the silliness of underinflated footballs...why does the league even care??? Let the teams prepare official game balls with what ever air pressure that pleases them. It's not like basketball with the ball changing possession fluidly. The offensive team uses their footballs. If it gives the QB a better grip, then what's the problem. The ball shouldn't be even more of an obstacle than it already is. Edited January 23, 2015 by Thrivefourfive
l< j Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Not a Pats fan. Born and not raised in Buffalo. I see your points. But with this issue, the word "cheating" is used too liberally imo. There have been a lot of apples to oranges comparisons in this thread that are flat out ridiculous. Compromising the game of NFL football, huh? The whole damn sport is a compromise. Do you think that the only penalties that occur come with a yellow ribbon? It's so minor and probably very prevalent in the league. Does anybody really think that other teams don't do the same thing? It's sports man, not a life and death situation. Humans are compelled to gain a competitive advantage. That's a fact. If the league wants to discipline the Patriots then they need evidence. A dead body in Los Angeles doesn't mean that the mayor is guilty of murder. Getting back to the silliness of underinflated footballs...why does the league even care??? Let the teams prepare official game balls with what ever air pressure that pleases them. It's not like basketball with the ball changes possession fluidly. The offensive team uses their footballs. If it gives the QB a better grip, then what's the problem. The ball shouldn't be even of an obstacle than it already is. They have evidence. The balls were deflated, all of them, to the point where the officials removed them from the game and made them play with the Colts balls.
Nihilist25 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 But if they admit the refs didn't check, then that puts the league in an even worse situation....because if there's any group with less credibility right now than the Patriots, it's the refs. Basically the league would have to admit that its own referees -- the best of them, the ones who were working the conference championships -- don't follow the rulebook. Imagine the fallout from THAT. The league is in a bind. Of its own making. If true the NFL is in a hard place.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Thrive for 5. Bending the rules is cheating - plain and simple. The Cheatriots are repeated offenders. Only Roger Goodell know what was on the destroyed tapes from (7?) years ago Win or lose, Patriots have sacrificed their legacy - The Boston Globe http://www.bostonglo...MtwO/story.html
dave mcbride Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Peter King weighs in with some inside information he is presenting as fact. Believe it or not, but it runs counter to what some here who want to give the Taintriots the benefit of the doubt are asserting. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/ The balls for both teams were checked with a pressure gauge 3 times: pre-game (prior to being released to the teams), halftime, and postgame. And I am with him when he writes: "There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human." http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/ Of course, the only humans who had the opportunity to tamper with them were Taintriots employees. This is evidence of cheating, solid and more than enough to punish the organization. (See Goodell's 2008 comments about not needing an airtight case when teams cheat to gain competitive advantage.) I don't care if it was the ballboys, Brady, Belichick or if Kraft himself were involved. The organization cheated, again. Loss of 2 high draft picks in 2015. kj I saw that, but to clarify, it does NOT say that they were checked before the game with a gauge. It just asks us to assume that the officials did it. They may have, but I have my doubts. King is a notorious shill for the league, so factor that in: The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) They have evidence. The balls were deflated, all of them, to the point where the officials removed them from the game and made them play with the Colts balls. Clarification - They have physical evidence that 11 of 12 balls were under the NFL allowable pressure of 12.5 PSI. As far as the league has told us peons - there is no "evidence" as to who did the deed and by who's instructions where is that guy or gal with his phone camera when you need him!!?!?!?!?!?! Edited January 23, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 <p> I saw that, but to clarify, it does NOT say that they were checked before the game with a gauge. It just asks us to assume that the officials did it. They may have, but I have my doubts. King is a notorious shill for the league, so factor that in: The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New Englands footballs (ESPNs Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressurewhich is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots balls were all low, and the Colts balls all legit, that quashes that theory. the one twist being several qbs have said they like a little firm, so its possible the Colts started at the top edge and finished at the bottom edge while the pats started at the bottom edge and ended low. a reach, but in a "well this eliminates any possible alternatives post" its an alternative. Clarification - They have evidence that 11 of 12 balls were under the NFL allowable pressure of 12.5 PSI now king is saying he hears 12 while mort hears 11 -- so, likely many, but not confirmation of anything quite yet.
Nihilist25 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) it seems the league was aware they were going to check EXTRA before sunday. allegedly they took balls out of rotation in the first half and measured everything mid game as a pre-planned event. if they were worried and going to do that, one would think they didnt forget to check pre-game. If so, why didn't the refs allege that they checked the Patriots footballs before the game and they were properly inflated and then they checked the Patriots footballs later/halftime and discovered that they were not properly inflated? Seems that they would have. Did I miss that somewhere? Edited January 23, 2015 by Nihilist25
l< j Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I saw that, but to clarify, it does NOT say that they were checked before the game with a gauge. It just asks us to assume that the officials did it. They may have, but I have my doubts. King is a notorious shill for the league, so factor that in: The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory. You are lawyering very well. No, he doesn't say they used a gauge but he is very certain that the balls were "at the prescribed pressure level ...". How else to get that judgment without a gauge? To think that they moved to replace those balls without a gauge defies logic. You said earlier that you would be surprised if they actually had a gauge, and now presented with evidence that they had one, you grasp at the possibility that they had it but didn't use it? Honestly, I can see no reason to question the conclusion that they cheated. And how is this shilling for the league when we don't know what judgment or punishment the league is going to announce? kj
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 If so, why didn't the refs allege that they checked the Patriots footballs before the game and they were properly inflated and then they checked the Patriots footballs later/halftime and discovered that they were not properly inflated? Seems that they would have. Did I miss that somewhere? it seems they did check during the first half and threw them out and started using colts balls. we have no details other than a colts player mentioning it though, so no idea when/how/whatever else.
l< j Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 As far as the league has told us peons - there is no "evidence" as to who did the deed and by who's instructions It doesn't matter who specifically did it. It could only have been done by a Patriot staffer. All we need to know: the balls were tampered with, against the rules. And it could only have been done by a Patriots employee. The organization must be punished. kj
Ted William's frozen head Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Wouldn't it be an absolute hoot if Brady's accuracy goes right into the crapper with a properly inflated ball.
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