gordong Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Nor should it. Totally disagree with this statement, You dont have a rule in place and then not enforce the rule, Twice. Sorry there is a pattern here and it not about a football with 2psi less air.
Jerry Jabber Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Looks like the Patriots possibly used the same tactic against the Ravens: http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-ravens-think-footballs-were-under-inflated-vs-patriots/ar-AA8pQuC?ocid=iehp
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That's easy. Juicing is wrong. It's widespread. A lot of players get caught. I would assume it's not a team policy. Teams don't test their players do they? The defensive example is not cheating at all, it is risk reward. Carroll being shady at SC is nothing to do with anything. If this happened to him, or the hawks, people would be bringing that up. Very few players get caught, actually. Whether it's encouraged by the Seahawks I don't know, but they do seem to have more issues with this particular form of rule breaking than most. The defensive holding isn't cheating, but as I said it's against the spirit of the game. Many people have complained about it. I'm not saying that it's worse than BB, who after all sparked a rule change because of his teams' penchant for blatant holding in the early 2000s.
negativo Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 This reminds me of George Brett pine tar, Shula bringing out the snow blower, or the extra curve on a hockey stick violation. Players and coaches are always are looking for an edge, and equipment is commonly used to try and gain one. Is it wrong? Is it part of the game to try and get away with bending the rules? Everyone has an opinion, but one thing is certain: It's always been done, and always will be done. Seems to me the line of when it becomes egregious happens when player safety/health is involved, which is why when New Orleans instituted a systemic strategy to injure opponents and inflict permanent brain damage was a hell of a lot more serious than deflating a lb of pressure to improve grip on the football.
RI Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Its been a talk radio staple for the last decade here in NE that tommy foulmouth is the best foul weather QB in the league. A truism trumpeted only slightly less often than his being the best QB EVER! I guess we now know why.
GG Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That's what we're faced with though. Behind the facade of their god-fearing QB and their smart personnel guys, they're a pretty rough organization that often treats rules as optional - especially on the defensive personnel/strategy side of things. The main difference I see between the two is that Seattle's defensive scheme is out in the open, and they are taking advantage of disparity in officials' game day calls. The hard hits & holds are not a way to secretly manipulate the outcome. To me it's a different ball of wax to tinkering with playing equipment that is not easily detectable. I think that the helmet communication story, if true, is the most damnable. It's also the most plausible explanation of Brady's unparalleled third eye on the field.
May Day 10 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Its been a talk radio staple for the last decade here in NE that tommy foulmouth is the best foul weather QB in the league. A truism trumpeted only slightly less often than his being the best QB EVER! I guess we now know why. yup. While possibly not fair, this stuff does bring the history and legacy into question. Also remember before 2007 how much of a big deal the media would make of Brady's weeklong preparation and studying "film". It was constant and nauseating. That talk dried up a great deal since then. The main difference I see between the two is that Seattle's defensive scheme is out in the open, and they are taking advantage of disparity in officials' game day calls. The hard hits & holds are not a way to secretly manipulate the outcome. To me it's a different ball of wax to tinkering with playing equipment that is not easily detectable. I think that the helmet communication story, if true, is the most damnable. It's also the most plausible explanation of Brady's unparalleled third eye on the field. this is what gets me. I remember the game at RWS maybe 2 years ago. The Pats ran like 2 plays out of the half and guessed correctly on what the defense was going to do every single time and scored on like 6 straight drives. People just chalked it up to "adjustments", but it just seems like they guessed correctly on a coinflip like 30 consecutive tries.
prissythecat Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Looks like the Patriots possibly used the same tactic against the Ravens: http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-ravens-think-footballs-were-under-inflated-vs-patriots/ar-AA8pQuC?ocid=iehp That same article says that the balls used for kicking are directly shipped from the manufacturer and are kept sealed?
NoSaint Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings another incident of teams messing with balls (vikings and panthers keeping them heated during the game)
llyolf Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 $5 says by the end of this, President Obama, or Hillary Clinton have something to say about this....
May Day 10 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That same article says that the balls used for kicking are directly shipped from the manufacturer and are kept sealed? If that is true, it seems like they would have an employee on the sideline who obtains the balls and "works" on them and then passes them back into rotation..... and they would somehow have to know which balls are "inflated" to use themselves. Thats a whole different ball of wax and perhaps far-fetched... but if true.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 The balls were all checked properly before the game. Then again at halftime and were deflated. Like the scorpion said when he stung the frog and killed him, "it's my nature." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/
TheBrownBear Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I agree that Pete's a cheat too. Brought in the Ting brothers so their shady doctor dad could feed his entire roster steroids. Just go look at the laughable pictures of Cushing...lol. He also paid Reggie Bush's family among others. Who said cheaters never prosper?
4merper4mer Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Just throwing this out there: Seahawks players have been notorious for juicing up in the last 2-3 years (a few have been suspended, but I'm assuming most haven't been caught; Badolbeelz has been posting about this for a while), and their strategy of practicing defensive holding on just about every damn play (figuring that it can't get called all the time) is certainly against the spirit of the game. Carroll ran a pretty shady operation at SC too. Both coaches bend the rules, but who is worse? Dude, there is no law against rooting for the Patriots. It's cool you found a rationalization but you don't need one.
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd3D2gsPUR0
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Just throwing this out there: Seahawks players have been notorious for juicing up in the last 2-3 years (a few have been suspended, but I'm assuming most haven't been caught; Badolbeelz has been posting about this for a while), and their strategy of practicing defensive holding on just about every damn play (figuring that it can't get called all the time) is certainly against the spirit of the game. Carroll ran a pretty shady operation at SC too. Both coaches bend the rules, but who is worse? If it makes you feel better to keep posting things that deflect from the real story...
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Nor should it. So just to be clear...the Pats' cheating shouldn't be punished, but in an honest blowout a high school coach should be suspended for not teaching his players common courtesy...? No. You're wrong. Entitled idiots are created by ass hole elitist parents. Those are the ones who grow up to coach a team of kids to a hundred point victory over another team of kids. The lesson of - do the right !@#$ing thing - was there to be taught. The message, instead of "if you don't want to lose, then don't suck," could have been, "there's no need to take this any further, because nothing good is coming out of it." The kids on the winning team would have learned something that is lacking in today's world ... compassion and common courtesy. Instead, they learned how to be ass holes. Yay. Nice win. The real world does not operate that way. Things end before it gets to the point of a "hundred point victory." Before it gets that bad, there's a breakup or a divorce; you put your notice in or get fired. But it never gets that bad. Someone makes a move one way or another. What you call "shielding children from every little thing," if done properly, is preparing them for real life a hell of a lot more than letting them be part of a hundred point win - which is far from real life and extreme. We're raising our son to be the one who would stand up at halftime and suggest to his coach that enough is enough and question why he'd want to let it go on. That's real life.
section122 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 If you were the NFL, what would you do, and try to take yourself out of hating the Patriots and knowing they are cheaters. It's your league. You need to do what is best for the league. Is the best thing to not let the Patriots play in the SB? Disqualify them and have a Black Sox Scandal on your hands? Give them unprecedented penalties after the season and let them play the SB? It's your league. Your money. Your future. Your reputation. What do you do? I think we are looking at a Michael Jordan situation. Quietly something will happen. Perhaps Belicheck will take a year off, or donate a substantial amount of money to an NFL charity. I have a feeling whatever punishment is announced will only be part of the actual punishment. It will be announced AFTER the super bowl. Hopeful me says: As a guy who believes that NFL games are massaged to the outcome the league wants from time to time I would be very surprised to see the Pats* win the super bowl this year. If it is a close game there will be a controversial call/non-call benefiting Seattle which will help them win the game. Realistic me says: We will be underwhelmed with the punishment, there will something done behind the scenes as I said, and the pats* will continue to stretch the rules/cheat. Super Bowl trips are certainly worth the 25k that is being thrown around as punishment. The chance to win a title is certainly worth that pittance in everyone's mind including Kraft. @BruceFeldmanCFB: Patriots>RT @DanWetzel: That's 16% under inflated. A LB for the Colts, who rarely touches the ball, notices. But not the refs? Strange story This is one of the bigger aspects of the story to me. Either the refs are incompetent or worse complicit. Either way not a good look for the NFL.
FluffHead Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Mark Brunell on ESPN just now....they had two footballs. One properly inflated and one with two pounds less air like the pats used. Brunell is first analyst with any cojones on this subject. He says huge advantage, can throw the ball at least ten yards further with ball that has two lbs less air.
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 This is one of the bigger aspects of the story to me. Either the refs are incompetent or worse complicit. Either way not a good look for the NFL. Refs and players handle the ball differently. Players grip it more strongly, by necessity, and would be more likely to notice. A 2psi - even 20% - difference isn't something you're likely to notice through casual handling.
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