Kelly the Dog Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I don't know where people are getting the idea that he didn't want to be in Buffalo? That story was WAY overblown. Marshawn just wants to be Marshawn. He liked Buffalo but in general doesn't like being bothered by people (as evidenced by his interactions with the media). He was immature while in Buffalo and probably needed a change of scenery to reach his potential. He's actually a pretty fun loving guy. He just doesn't like the spotlight. He didn't hate being in WNY at all (that was Willis). He has grown up some but those anxiety issues make him a target for the media. It's not that he is a punk (not at all). He just wants to be left alone to play football. He was a fun and fun loving guy. Fred Jackson is still really close to him. He didn't like thr Buffalo police though, and they didn't like him. And that is likely why he wanted to get out. I thought he was very good on the Bills, and highly underrated, and would break three tackles to get 3 yards when he got zero blocking.
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 His brother went to my high school when he first started playing here. Everybody was really excited to meet him and he was the same way. Really quiet.
cale Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 Another thought is that Gailey forced the issue by wanting a "Scat Back" and picking Spiller in the 1st round. Between Spiller, Lynch and Freddie, Lynch was going to be the odd man out. The biggest mistake Buddy did was in drafting Spiller. I think the quote was "we wanted a jitterbug..." I love CJ and Fred as people. But be careful what you wish for...
hondo in seattle Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 He was a strike away from a season long suspension. I think it was this more than anything. And Lynch is so reticent I doubt if he said much to reassure them. But hindsight is 20-20 as they say the trade looks just awful now.
cale Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 I don't know how many times this was brought up in the past, but can't this be merged to a post maybe 3-4 years ago? Geez! Just because they just played doesn't make it a new subject. The reason for trading Lynch hasn't changed.If he kicks ass in the superbowl, will this subject come up again? There are still posters who bring up the Whitner pick and the PEters trade. They are the same people who can't over their 5th grade girlfriend I suppose. It merit's discussion. The topic is very clearly denoted. Don't want to discuss? Don't open this thread. To say the guy was a bad seed here and that's why the Bills traded him - is overly simplistic. It puts the entire onus on the player per behavior. What about the organizational dysfunction that contributed to his lack of production and eventual trade? Hell, what about the state of the team? The Lynch trade was symptomatic of a bigger issue. I'm interested in what folks think about the complete picture. Maybe we can constructively look at what can make this organization and team better going forward by looking at the mistakes of the past. The truth hurts sometimes. But doesn't mean we shouldn't examine what went wrong for a player I believe who has easily been in the top 5 maybe even 3 of RBs in the last 3 years. He was incredible in college (hence the Bills drafting him) and now incredible in Seattle (their FO wanting him). He didn't do so great here. He certainly shares the blame for off the field shenanigans. But so does this organization...on and off the field. I'm glad Littman is gone. Maybe that's the start of a new era... C
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Everyone in this thread needs to read this article that was published right before the trade: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81888cac/article/source-bills-gailey-wants-lynch-to-get-on-board-with-his-program ...Lynch is refusing to participate in voluntary practices, which is his way of protesting the fact that the Bills haven't traded him... as Lynch gave a disappointing performance last season -- Lynch has ample reason to believe he doesn't have much of a future in Buffalo.... So Lynch wants out. The problem is, the Bills aren't about to let him go for anything less than a fourth-round pick, and to date, no one is willing to make the Bills such an offer. Edited January 20, 2015 by DrDareustein
dave mcbride Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Everyone in this thread needs to read this article that was published right before the trade: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81888cac/article/source-bills-gailey-wants-lynch-to-get-on-board-with-his-program Wasn't his protest based on the fact that the Bills drafted Spiller?
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Wasn't his protest based on the fact that the Bills drafted Spiller? You'd have to ask Marshawn. It was probably a combination of a LOT of things. His local off-field legal issues, the changing of regimes (away from the guys who drafted him), adding another RB into the mix... Couple all of that with his immaturity, social anxiety issues, and being a few thousand miles away from home, and it was a recipe for disaster. I also personally disagree with the folks who believe that the drafting of Spiller meant Marshawn was being pushed out. They are completely different types of RBs. Spiller was going to be added for the dynamic he brought no matter what. The real decision came down to Freddy vs Marshawn. That's it. While Marshawn has gone on to have a pretty good career (and Im happy for him), we shouldnt dismiss all that Fred has done for and on this team. He's a locker room leader where as Marshawn has needed his locker room to protect and shield him. How many times have we seen Freddy carry this team on is back over the last few years? The answer is Countless. In just this past season alone there were numerous times we needed him and Freddy came through. The most memorable one being the run against the Bears. Im having trouble remembering the exact game, but there was at least one other game where we needed a first down, or a touchdown, and Freddy just wouldnt be stopped. All the fans at the Ralph yelling "FEED FREDDY!". But I digress... The point is that it wasnt just the Bills that wanted to ship Marshawn off. He wanted out badly, and made it perfectly clear. What else can you really do at that point?
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 You'd have to ask Marshawn. It was probably a combination of a LOT of things. His local off-field legal issues, the changing of regimes (away from the guys who drafted him), adding another RB into the mix... Couple all of that with his immaturity, social anxiety issues, and being a few thousand miles away from home, and it was a recipe for disaster. I also personally disagree with the folks who believe that the drafting of Spiller meant Marshawn was being pushed out. They are completely different types of RBs. Spiller was going to be added for the dynamic he brought no matter what. The real decision came down to Freddy vs Marshawn. That's it. While Marshawn has gone on to have a pretty good career (and Im happy for him), we shouldnt dismiss all that Fred has done for and on this team. He's a locker room leader where as Marshawn has needed his locker room to protect and shield him. How many times have we seen Freddy carry this team on is back over the last few years? The answer is Countless. In just this past season alone there were numerous times we needed him and Freddy came through. The most memorable one being the run against the Bears. Im having trouble remembering the exact game, but there was at least one other game where we needed a first down, or a touchdown, and Freddy just wouldnt be stopped. All the fans at the Ralph yelling "FEED FREDDY!". But I digress... The point is that it wasnt just the Bills that wanted to ship Marshawn off. He wanted out badly, and made it perfectly clear. What else can you really do at that point? Make him play out his contract like an adult. Also, dude, change your signature. Unless you're talking about Whaley, in which case, carry on.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Make him play out his contract like an adult. Also, dude, change your signature. Unless you're talking about Whaley, in which case, carry on. LOL, that never happens once a player gets that unhappy. Way easier said by fans than done. Teams dont want cancers in their locker room. You arent going to "make" an adult do anything they dont want to do. Can you give me ANY examples of disgruntled players coming around and sticking with the team for years on end? Additionally, Nix's main job was righting this ship that had been stranded on the rocks for years. While he didnt get it out into open water, he definitely got it off the reef. He had to cut loose the bad attitudes and guys that didnt want to be here. Lycnh gave them no choice. And of course it's Whaley. Edited January 20, 2015 by DrDareustein
Freddie's Dead Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Was that the same year that Ryan Fitzpatrick was the 3rd best QB in the league after 5 weeks? "On pace" means nothing. Dude. You said Fred was "never" close to being the best RB in the league. He was for 10 games in 2011. That counts.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Make him play out his contract like an adult. Also, dude, change your signature. Unless you're talking about Whaley, in which case, carry on. I know for a fact he was not acting like an adult even after his suspension. It merit's discussion. The topic is very clearly denoted. Don't want to discuss? Don't open this thread. To say the guy was a bad seed here and that's why the Bills traded him - is overly simplistic. It puts the entire onus on the player per behavior. What about the organizational dysfunction that contributed to his lack of production and eventual trade? Hell, what about the state of the team? The Lynch trade was symptomatic of a bigger issue. I'm interested in what folks think about the complete picture. Maybe we can constructively look at what can make this organization and team better going forward by looking at the mistakes of the past. The truth hurts sometimes. But doesn't mean we shouldn't examine what went wrong for a player I believe who has easily been in the top 5 maybe even 3 of RBs in the last 3 years. He was incredible in college (hence the Bills drafting him) and now incredible in Seattle (their FO wanting him). He didn't do so great here. He certainly shares the blame for off the field shenanigans. But so does this organization...on and off the field. I'm glad Littman is gone. Maybe that's the start of a new era... C If He had no baggage and we traded him, it's one thing. He was an idiot here and we got rid of him. It's hilarious how some people don't hold Lynch responsible for his actions.
birdog1960 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I know for a fact he was not acting like an adult even after his suspension. If He had no baggage and we traded him, it's one thing. He was an idiot here and we got rid of him. It's hilarious how some people don't hold Lynch responsible for his actions. i don't think folks are absolving him of his idiocy, just pointing out that he was salvageable (and clearly worth the effort), just not by a poorly run organization. Edited January 20, 2015 by birdog1960
Thurman#1 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Here you go. Look at the second paragraph. Also, no one on the graph is above 75 percent. I also distinctly recall reading this on either PFF or FO in 2010. I just can't find the link. http://stats-dont-lie.blogspot.com/2010/01/look-at-yards-gained-after-contact-for.html Didn't you say above that he was #1? Your own figures disagree here, they don't have him at #1. Having looked more closely, I remember that year now. That was the one where he was starting to be unhappy, where he just didn't have all that much of a burst. He'd still fight hard, but Freddy was hitting the holes harder and Marshawn was not getting to those holes in time. That year was the one where they simply ran Freddy more, And obviously for good reason. Behind the same offensive line, Freddy was a bunch more productive per carry despite getting fewer yards after contact. Why? Freddy was picking the right holes and hitting them harder. Marshawn, again behind the same offensive line, was getting hit closer to the LOS and often behind it. There was a reason Marshawn got 120 carries (for 450 yards) and Freddy got 237 (for 1062). And yeah, some of that was that Marshawn missed the first four games because of that suspension, but obviously that's nowhere near enough to make all of the difference. What made the difference was that Freddy was ripping off 4.5 yards per carry that year while Marshawn was only managing 3.8. Marshawn was running violently but not effectively. Yards after contact can be a good thing, especially if you're still making good yards per attempt. If you're not, it can mean you're tough but not fast. And when motivated, Marshawn is very fast. He wasn't that year, though. Having good yards after contact can also mean that you're fresher than the more productive guys on your team who are getting more carries, which seems to be the case with the article you're referring to. None of the guys over 70% according to your article were in the top 30 in the league in carries. In any case, that was not a good year for Marshawn. Just the opposite. Edited January 20, 2015 by Thurman#1
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 i don't think folks are absolving him of his idiocy, just pointing out that he was salvageable (and clearly worth the effort), just not by a poorly run organization. How was he in any way "salvageable" for the Bills when he didnt want to be here, refused to meet with the new coach, and was making trade demands? Specifically what would you have done to salvage him?
Dopey Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 It merit's discussion. The topic is very clearly denoted. Don't want to discuss? Don't open this thread. To say the guy was a bad seed here and that's why the Bills traded him - is overly simplistic. It puts the entire onus on the player per behavior. What about the organizational dysfunction that contributed to his lack of production and eventual trade? Hell, what about the state of the team? The Lynch trade was symptomatic of a bigger issue. I'm interested in what folks think about the complete picture. Maybe we can constructively look at what can make this organization and team better going forward by looking at the mistakes of the past. The truth hurts sometimes. But doesn't mean we shouldn't examine what went wrong for a player I believe who has easily been in the top 5 maybe even 3 of RBs in the last 3 years. He was incredible in college (hence the Bills drafting him) and now incredible in Seattle (their FO wanting him). He didn't do so great here. He certainly shares the blame for off the field shenanigans. But so does this organization...on and off the field. I'm glad Littman is gone. Maybe that's the start of a new era... C 'It merit's discussion. The topic is very clearly denoted. Don't want to discuss? Don't open this thread.' Ahh, the voice of reason.I have seen people get on others for bringing up a topic that was discussed on a previous post. Yes the topic is clearly denoted, but was discussed many times already. And don't tell me what to do, I'll open a thread and discuss like anyone else. Sorry your skin is so thin. Du yu looke fore speling srors two?
birdog1960 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 How was he in any way "salvageable" for the Bills when he didnt want to be here, refused to meet with the new coach, and was making trade demands? Specifically what would you have done to salvage him? i would start by assembling a decent team with an outside chance at a super bowl around him.
CardinalScotts Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Russell Wilson is the one that should be a Buffalo Bill. Nope.....gotta draft TJ effin Grahm. And I am not saying this in hindsight. I was yelling at the tv on draft day do we get the running game, offensive line and defense with him? ...good chance it would have worked but if we don't get the D and the running game no chance
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 i would start by assembling a decent team with an outside chance at a super bowl around him. He doesnt want to wait for that from your new regime, he wants out right now. Now what?
dave mcbride Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I know for a fact he was not acting like an adult even after his suspension. If He had no baggage and we traded him, it's one thing. He was an idiot here and we got rid of him. It's hilarious how some people don't hold Lynch responsible for his actions. This is all true, but it raises another point. Good RBs who get drafted high usually aren't choirboys -- it takes a certain sort to deliver that sort of punishment to defenders. Most of the Bills' high-round RB draft picks were either criminally inclined, wildly irresponsible, or chronic complainers. Just look at the history: OJ ('nuff said), Travis Henry, Ronnie Harmon, McGahee, Cribbs (who would have been ridden out of town on a rail by today's fans given his holdouts), Cookie Gilchrist, and Lynch. None except for OJ lasted long. Even the few that RBs we drafted high who proved to be upstanding citizens -- Spiller, Antowain Smith, and Terry Miller -- didn't last long. Smith lasted just a short while with the Bills before moving on to NE, where he was reasonably successful for a few years; I expect Spiller will do the same. The one outlier is Thurman Thomas, who lasted a long time. He obviously wasn't a bad guy, but for those who remember he wasn't regarded as a particularly nice guy in his playing days. "Surly" is the word that comes most to mind. And he had a *lot* of critics.
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