BillsBytheBay Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 He was a strike away from a season long suspension.
Freddie's Dead Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) If a Lynch-Jackson poll of all NFL defensive players and coaches was taken, I have a very strong hunch that zero of them would say that Jackson is the better player. And I love Fred. Can't argue with you on that. In 2011, the answer would have been Fred. Today the answer is Lynch. Let's see where the answer is when they're done. I think that Fred has a lot left, contrary to popular opinion. Lynch has to pay karma sometime, and I see a year-long suspension in his (hopefully near) future. The OP may be too young to remember but way back in 2010 when we made the trade, it was blatantly obvious to anyone who watched Bills games that Lynch was the 3rd best running back on the team. No one was clamoring for Lynch to get more carries in that backfield. He was completely expendable so they traded him for a 4th round pick, which the way people talk about mid round draft picks on this website, was seen as a great deal at the time. If there can be any complaint by anyone, it's that the Bills could have MAYBE squeezed a third round pick from another team. Chris Hairston, for what it's worth, has not proven to suck, has been good enough to make the roster every year and in limited duty, has actually looked capable at tackle. Is Chris Hairston better than Marshawn Lynch? Of course not. But there is way too much revisionist's history going around here lately. Bottom line, at the time of the trade, it was a fine trade and no one was complaining about it. His heart clearly was not in it in Buffalo and he clearly decided to take it to another level Seattle. Who could have seen that coming? Besides the OP and half of you, of course. This. Lynch/Jackson could have been an unstoppable duo with a good offensive line and good coaching. Unforatnately we have not had both those things at the same time in 20 years. Nix was just terrible. Taking any RB 9th overall with as many holes as the Bills had and those two on your roster is inexcusible. Also I know everyone had a chance at Gronk and Wilson but not eveyone selected McCargo and Graham instead. Both guys that left the pundits saying it was quite a reach and the fans saying who? Also two guys that ended up being total busts and pretty much produced nothing at all. He was such a bad GM. The clear pick was Bulaga. Now Green Bay has their LT for the next decade. Took us a few more years to find Cordy. Could not believe the Bills took Spiller. Edited January 20, 2015 by Fred Jackson Jockstrap
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Wasn't playing well, overweight, off field issues, wouldn't speak with new coaching staff, asked for a trade. All that before they drafted Spiller.
Thurman#1 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Someone Tell Me Again Why Buddy Traded Lynch... Because due to the meanness and coldness of the people in Buffalo who actually got angry when he stole $20 bills from cop's wives, he became, like totally unhappy. Which led to ... and many here seem to totally forget this ... him letting his play be affected. Marshawn's yards per attempt, by year ... guess which years he was letting his situation hurt his play ... 2007: 4.0 YPC 2008: 4.1 2009: 3.8 2010: 3.6 2011: 4.2 2012: 5.0 2013: 4.2 2014: 4.7 Hard to notice when he might have been unhappy, hunh? And it wasn't the OL. Freddy went for 4.5 and 4.2 per carry those two years. Edited January 20, 2015 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Whenever lynch was in the backfield in 09, defenses stuffed the box and typically hit him at the LOS or behind it. He actually led the league in percentage of rushing yards gained after first contact (75 percent). They didn't utilize him effectively as a receiver even though he was a fabulous receiver at Cal; his usage by 09 was extremely predictable. Don't know where you got those stats about running after contact. I only know one place that charts that and they don't have Lynch in first in that percentage in 2009. "By PFF’s count, Chris Johnson had a 1,000-yard season after contact: "Everybody knows what a fantastic season Chris Johnson had, topping 2,000 yards rushing, but how many people know that he notched 1,071 of those rushing yards after contact? Only 12 other rushers in the NFL surpassed that mark with their rushing totals. Johnson gained more yards after contact in 2009 than 50 other runners on this list gained in total rushing yards. While Johnson topped the league in [yards after contact, or YCo] -- as well as rushing yards -- last season, it wasn't by nearly the same distance from the chasing pack. Three other rushers were able to record more than 900 yards after contact, and not one of them came within 500 yards of Johnson's league-leading 2,006-yard rushing total. Steven Jackson, Maurice Jones-Drew and Adrian Peterson all recorded more than 65 percent of their rushing yards after first contact.'" http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/11634/rbs-and-yards-after-contact Edited January 20, 2015 by Thurman#1
dave mcbride Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Don't know where you got those stats about running after contact. I only know one place that charts that and they don't have Lynch in first in that percentage in 2009. "By PFFs count, Chris Johnson had a 1,000-yard season after contact: "Everybody knows what a fantastic season Chris Johnson had, topping 2,000 yards rushing, but how many people know that he notched 1,071 of those rushing yards after contact? Only 12 other rushers in the NFL surpassed that mark with their rushing totals. Johnson gained more yards after contact in 2009 than 50 other runners on this list gained in total rushing yards. While Johnson topped the league in [yards after contact, or YCo] -- as well as rushing yards -- last season, it wasn't by nearly the same distance from the chasing pack. Three other rushers were able to record more than 900 yards after contact, and not one of them came within 500 yards of Johnson's league-leading 2,006-yard rushing total. Steven Jackson, Maurice Jones-Drew and Adrian Peterson all recorded more than 65 percent of their rushing yards after first contact.'" http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/11634/rbs-and-yards-after-contact Here you go. Look at the second paragraph. Also, no one on the graph is above 75 percent. I also distinctly recall reading this on either PFF or FO in 2010. I just can't find the link. http://stats-dont-lie.blogspot.com/2010/01/look-at-yards-gained-after-contact-for.html Edited January 20, 2015 by dave mcbride
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Chan wanted C.j. We had Fred, you don't need 3. If you want to say Fred should have went you can't argue with the stats, but he wanted to be here , Lynch did not
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Yards per carry as a Bill: Lynch 4.0 Spiller 5.0 Jackson 4.4 Threads like this are funny. Lynch was a terrible person here. I loved the guy but he was a complete idiot. There were a lot of stuff that he did that didn't get caught either. The same people crying about this trade or the same people who would rip the Bills for keeping him if he got a year long suspension and had 0 trade value. Good move for Seattle but to blame Buffalo for this is just trying to find reasons to bash the team. Lynch forced their hands with his actions. Can't argue with you on that. In 2011, the answer would have been Fred. Today the answer is Lynch. Let's see where the answer is when they're done. I think that Fred has a lot left, contrary to popular opinion. Lynch has to pay karma sometime, and I see a year-long suspension in his (hopefully near) future. This. The clear pick was Bulaga. Now Green Bay has their LT for the next decade. Took us a few more years to find Cordy. Could not believe the Bills took Spiller. I was on the Bulaga bandwagon but he has hardly been a star. He's only started 48 games in 5 years and is a RT. He has never made a pro bowl. Obviously, you probably should never draft a rb in the 1st in today's NFL. But when he was under Gailey, Spiller was about as dangerous a rb as there was in the NFL.
Dopey Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 For a box of tape? The dude single handed put the Seahawks on his back today. Beast mode indeed... I don't know how many times this was brought up in the past, but can't this be merged to a post maybe 3-4 years ago? Geez! Just because they just played doesn't make it a new subject. The reason for trading Lynch hasn't changed.If he kicks ass in the superbowl, will this subject come up again?
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I don't know how many times this was brought up in the past, but can't this be merged to a post maybe 3-4 years ago? Geez! Just because they just played doesn't make it a new subject. The reason for trading Lynch hasn't changed.If he kicks ass in the superbowl, will this subject come up again? There are still posters who bring up the Whitner pick and the PEters trade. They are the same people who can't over their 5th grade girlfriend I suppose.
Gugny Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Yards per carry as a Bill: Lynch 4.0 Spiller 5.0 Jackson 4.4 Threads like this are funny. Lynch was a terrible person here. I loved the guy but he was a complete idiot. There were a lot of stuff that he did that didn't get caught either. The same people crying about this trade or the same people who would rip the Bills for keeping him if he got a year long suspension and had 0 trade value. Good move for Seattle but to blame Buffalo for this is just trying to find reasons to bash the team. Lynch forced their hands with his actions. I was on the Bulaga bandwagon but he has hardly been a star. He's only started 48 games in 5 years and is a RT. He has never made a pro bowl. Obviously, you probably should never draft a rb in the 1st in today's NFL. But when he was under Gailey, Spiller was about as dangerous a rb as there was in the NFL. I'm definitely not bashing the trade at all. He definitely needed to go and it was due to his own actions/attitude. I just don't think Fred Jackson ever has been even near the RB Lynch has been - strictly on the field.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I'm definitely not bashing the trade at all. He definitely needed to go and it was due to his own actions/attitude. I just don't think Fred Jackson ever has been even near the RB Lynch has been - strictly on the field. Lynch was a 1st round pick because he was super talented. There have been times where Jackson and Spiller have been dominant too. Edited January 20, 2015 by C.Biscuit97
Gugny Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Lynch was a 1st round pick because he was super talented. There have been times where Jackson and Spiller have been dominant too. Absolutely agree. All three were/are great Bills. I just think the order of overall greatness is Lynch, Spiller, Jackson; and I know not many agree.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Absolutely agree. All three were/are great Bills. I just think the order of overall greatness is Lynch, Spiller, Jackson; and I know not many agree. Lynch is clearly the best now. but on the Bills, he might have been the 3rd best. Especially given the off the field stuff. He went to a great situation.
Gugny Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Lynch is clearly the best now. but on the Bills, he might have been the 3rd best. Especially given the off the field stuff. He went to a great situation. I actually think he was the best while he was here. His production only went down when they stopped giving him the ball. Like I said, I don't blame the Bills for getting rid of him and he ran himself out of town. Spiller ... that's another story. The Bills screwed the pooch with him, in my opinion. When this team is left with an older Fred Jackson and Brown/Dixon, I think we'll all see we let the wrong guy get away. I will gladly be wrong; I just don't think I will be.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I actually think he was the best while he was here. His production only went down when they stopped giving him the ball. Like I said, I don't blame the Bills for getting rid of him and he ran himself out of town. Spiller ... that's another story. The Bills screwed the pooch with him, in my opinion. When this team is left with an older Fred Jackson and Brown/Dixon, I think we'll all see we let the wrong guy get away. I will gladly be wrong; I just don't think I will be. I agree with all of this.
Freddie's Dead Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I was on the Bulaga bandwagon but he has hardly been a star. He's only started 48 games in 5 years and is a RT. He has never made a pro bowl. Oops, RT, thought I saw a GB game this year with him lined up on the left. Either way, he's way better than Hairston or Pears. We blew the pick on Spiller. I'm definitely not bashing the trade at all. He definitely needed to go and it was due to his own actions/attitude. I just don't think Fred Jackson ever has been even near the RB Lynch has been - strictly on the field. Before the knee injury in 2011, Fred Jackson was the best RB in the NFL (5.5 YPC!) and being talked about as league MVP. I know you're not a Fred fan, but come on dude.
Gugny Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Oops, RT, thought I saw a GB game this year with him lined up on the left. Either way, he's way better than Hairston or Pears. We blew the pick on Spiller. Before the knee injury in 2011, Fred Jackson was the best RB in the NFL (5.5 YPC!) and being talked about as league MVP. I know you're not a Fred fan, but come on dude. I can assure you ... Fred Jackson has never been close to being the best RB in the NFL. And I am a huge Fred Jackson fan, believe me.
Freddie's Dead Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I can assure you ... Fred Jackson has never been close to being the best RB in the NFL. And I am a huge Fred Jackson fan, believe me. In 2011, Fred was on pace for 1500 yards rushing and 700 yards receiving before the knee injury. I looked up AP and Chris Johnson, and Fred would have left them in the dust. He was the best RB in the NFL in 2011, by any measure you care to make. You continue to say he has never been close, even though the stats say otherwise. Whatever dude. Edited January 20, 2015 by Fred Jackson Jockstrap
Gugny Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 In 2011, Fred was on pace for 1500 yards rushing and 700 yards receiving before the knee injury. I looked up AP and Chris Johnson, and Fred would have left them in the dust. He was the best RB in the NFL in 2011, by any measure you care to make. You continue to say he has never been close, even though the stats say otherwise. Whatever dude. Was that the same year that Ryan Fitzpatrick was the 3rd best QB in the league after 5 weeks? "On pace" means nothing. Dude.
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