dave mcbride Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) OK so besides conceding that his numbers have been superior in Seattle, there is also something called the eye test. Just watching him play, he is clearly a top 5 RB in football. Did he ever look that way to you in Buffalo? Would Fred Jackson have beaten him out for the starting RB position if he looked like he did yesterday on the Bills? Would they have drafted Spiller if he looked like he did yesterday on the Bills? Exactly. On a terrible offense in 2007, he did look like a great player to me. But that's just me. Edited January 19, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 OK so besides conceding that his numbers have been superior in Seattle, there is also something called the eye test. Just watching him play, he is clearly a top 5 RB in football. Did he ever look that way to you in Buffalo? Would Fred Jackson have beaten him out for the starting RB position if he looked like he did yesterday on the Bills? Would they have drafted Spiller if he looked like he did yesterday on the Bills? Exactly. His first two seasons he looked like an emerging star. That 2009 season when he came back from suspension slow and out of shape quickly faded that memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) His first two seasons he looked like an emerging star. That 2009 season when he came back from suspension slow and out of shape quickly faded that memory. He looked good. He never looked as good as McGahee looked in 2004 or Travis Henry did for a few years or Spiller in 2012. He was a plodder; a tough runner and averaged 4 yards a carry. I'm surprised that this has even turned into a debate. Seattle ate the Bills lunch in this trade. Lynch was a good player here and you saw he had the potential to be a great player. We traded a guy that has helped carry the Seahawks to a Superbowl Title and perhaps another one this year all for a 4th round pick. It was one of many horrible decision made by the people running this organization over the past 15 years. I don't get it, do some people on this board think its just one big coincidence that we haven't seen the playoffs since 1999? A string of bad luck? How you justify a trade like this as well as other moves made by this organization(Trade up in the 3rd round to grab Russ....Er I mean TJ Graham) is asinine. It is what it is now. The trade happened years ago, but don't try and act like the Bills didn't get schooled in it. I think we're arguing two different things here. Yes of course the trade worked out in Seattle's favor. But I am arguing (remembering) that at the time of the trade, his play had regressed, he had lost his starting job fair and square, he had worn out his welcome in Buffalo and no one was sad to see him go. In fact, if anyone recalls, we were all excited because the rumor was we were going to trade Lynch to Green Bay for AJ Hawk. OK so let's take a poll. Who thinks that Marshawn Lynch is the same running back now that he was on the Bills and has not elevated his game with Seattle whatsoever? Edited January 19, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 In 2007, the other starting offensive linemen besides Peters were Melvin Fowler, Langston Walker, Brad Butler, and Derrick Dockery. All oscillated between terrible and mediocre. Peters was very good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 He looked good. He never looked as good as McGahee looked in 2004 or Travis Henry did for a few years or Spiller in 2012. He was a plodder; a tough runner and averaged 4 yards a carry. OK so let's take a poll. Who thinks that Marshawn Lynch is the same running back now that he was on the Bills and has not elevated his game with Seattle whatsoever? By elevated his game you mean given a greater opportunity? then sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 OK so let's take a poll. Who thinks that Marshawn Lynch is the same running back now that he was on the Bills and has not elevated his game with Seattle whatsoever? I think that he has definitely raised his game in Seattle. That doesn't change the fact that he was a really good back in Buffalo. The compensation that they got in return for him was atrocious (especially considering there was a better offer out there from the Saints I believe). He did need a change of scenery but they could have and should have gotten more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I have no issue with trading him given the circumstances etc. Yet, I thought at the time that it probably was not worth trading him at all for what they got. I presume the Bills thought it was addition by subtraction and that there were issues in the locker room. Who knows? As another poster wrote, ML (while a very good RB) continues to be a headache. It is too bad the Colts GM was not a GM in the league then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPappy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Marshawn didn't hate Buffalo. He did wear out his welcome though with the off the field stuff. If the organization was as strong back then as it is now they may have been able to help him before it snowballed (like Dareus). Marshawn is a HOFer. He's a great, great, great player. Hopefully he plays well in 2 weeks and takes down those evil cheaters. Wasn't he quotes in a bar by a patron saying that "Buffalo sucks, theres nothing ever to do and the women are ugly" or something to that effect? or was that someone else? BigPappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 In 2007, the other starting offensive linemen besides Peters were Melvin Fowler, Langston Walker, Brad Butler, and Derrick Dockery. All oscillated between terrible and mediocre. Peters was very good though. They also only allowed 26 sacks that season with the Losman/Edwards platoon. They were excellent in pass protection in 2007. Walker was a more than serviceable RT and Butler was very, very good. Dockery was serviceable and Fowler sucked. They were a good OL in 2007 and 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Was going to stay out of this, and have not read the thread, so sorry if this is a repeat. I do not believe this was a football only trade, it was a character trade. Arrested on felony gun charges. Hit a woman while driving and fled the scene Arrested for DUI after being traded I thought he was a great back when he was here, and i still think he is a great back. I am am happy as hell I am not rooting for him. I am happy as hell I never had to root for Ray Lewis . Same for Leonard Little And i am pretty damn sure Ralph Wilson did not want to root for this guy on HIS team Some things just a tad bit more important than wins to Ralph...and being proud of the people on his team was one Edited January 19, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Wasn't he quotes in a bar by a patron saying that "Buffalo sucks, theres nothing ever to do and the women are ugly" or something to that effect? or was that someone else? BigPappy I believe that is Willis McGahee. He did the whole Applebee's thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Wasn't he quotes in a bar by a patron saying that "Buffalo sucks, theres nothing ever to do and the women are ugly" or something to that effect? or was that someone else? BigPappy What? You talking about Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPappy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 No matter how anyone tries to downplay Marshawn Lynch, he's a huge part of why the Seahawks have been to 2 straight superbowls. The drafting of CJ Spiller and essentially giving away Marshawn Lynch is one of the biggest blunders in Buffalo Bills history. And that's saying something. Not even close to their biggest blunder! Do you not remember Mike Williams and John Mcargo? BigPappy I believe that is Willis McGahee. He did the whole Applebee's thing. I stand corrected. My Bad. same character, just a different name. LOL! BigPappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I think that he has definitely raised his game in Seattle. That doesn't change the fact that he was a really good back in Buffalo. The compensation that they got in return for him was atrocious (especially considering there was a better offer out there from the Saints I believe). He did need a change of scenery but they could have and should have gotten more. You are right on as you often are. The big rumor was that the Saints were reportedly willing to give up a 3rd round pick. So if that's what people want to complain about- that we perhaps could've gotten a 3rd round pick instead of a 4th- then that is a fair argument. But to argue that he hadn't worn out his welcome here is showing that you have a very short memory. Not even close to their biggest blunder! Do you not remember Mike Williams and John Mcargo? BigPappy I stand corrected. My Bad. same character, just a different name. LOL! BigPappy You cannot lump the drafting of Mike Williams and John McCargo together. Williams was a great pick at the time and McCargo, like Whitner, Troup and TJ Graham was a colossal stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 The better question is why Buddy Nix was given the reigns in the first place - here is a man who was half-retired and who had ZERO qualifications to be running an NFL team, yet that's who Ralph Wilson tabbed for GM. And Nix set this team back another 5 years. As for Lynch - as others have touched on, the issue is player development, something this franchise has been very bad at over the last 15 years, but has gotten better with recently. It's an elusive concept that doesn't get enough discussion around here. It's one thing to draft good prospects (the Bills have enough trouble just doing that), but once you draft them, you have to develop them into quality NFL players both on and off the field. Some organizations excel at this. You see the Steelers take the long view with draft picks who start out as slight disappointments but end up as excellent players in defined roles within their system after 4-5 years (Hayward, Woodley, Timmons, many others). Yet the Bills historically have cut bait on players who have started to flounder out of the gate - it's not surprising that many of those players turn their careers around elsewhere, in stable organizations, leaving Bills fans with a paranoia about why this keeps happening. Lynch is a perfect example, though there are many, many others around the league. As some have mentioned, the Dareus example is a sign that the Bills have finally started taking the concept of player development seriously. Some of our less-informed fans and demagogic writers (Jerry Sullivan) were running him out of town several months ago - yet the Bills were patient with him, and he became the centerpiece of the defense this past season. As much as I hate Doug Marrone, he deserves a lot of credit for Dareus. For the Bills to be successful long-term, they need to take seriously the idea of player development. They also need to make sure Buddy Nix is off of the payroll once and for all - he is a total buffoon. This to me is the central issue. What we lacked was someone or a front office team that knew how to handle the situation of Marshawn's discontent. The problem is culture. Look at Carroll's and Belichick's institutional/team culture. The Bills sucked at this. Hopefully we turn the corner now. I'm frustrated that the FO didn't manage the situation well. But I'm even more angry that they didn't get above market value for him. Especially given how often the Seattle GM was calling the Bills for a trade. This all spoke to out of touch GM and an administration that was content to keep the status quo going in spite of the lack of success. Sure,we changed coaching staff, but the lunatics still ran the asylum. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/13/pete-carroll-badly-wanted-to-pry-his-lynch-pin-from-buffalo-bills C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 T I. This all spoke to out of touch GM and an administration that was content to keep the status quo going in spite of the lack of success. Sure,we changed coaching staff, but the lunatics still ran the asylum. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/13/pete-carroll-badly-wanted-to-pry-his-lynch-pin-from-buffalo-bills C How come no one, ever, wants to say that most likely this trade was Ralphs call. Ralph made the call to draft him, and Ralph most likely made the call to trade him. With OJ being associated with his team, and PacMan stuff going on then, and Goddell coming in with his code of conduct etc... Ralph did not want this guy on HIS team.... why do people refuse to believe this was not a football trade....Ralph wanted this guy gone...and i agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I don't get it, do some people on this board think its just one big coincidence that we haven't seen the playoffs since 1999? A string of bad luck? How you justify a trade like this as well as other moves made by this organization(Trade up in the 3rd round to grab Russ....Er I mean TJ Graham) is asinine. Of course the Lynch trade was another of Buddy's blunders. But there are some who, if they admit they are/were wrong, will compromise a massive ego. And that's what remains most important. How come no one, ever, wants to say that most likely this trade was Ralphs call. Ralph made the call to draft him, and Ralph most likely made the call to trade him. With OJ being associated with his team, and PacMan stuff going on then, and Goddell coming in with his code of conduct etc... Ralph did not want this guy on HIS team.... why do people refuse to believe this was not a football trade....Ralph wanted this guy gone...and i agree with him. And here's another new narrative pulled seemingly out of nowhere to explain the inexplicable. Edited January 19, 2015 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPappy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You cannot lump the drafting of Mike Williams and John McCargo together. Williams was a great pick at the time and McCargo, like Whitner, Troup and TJ Graham was a colossal stretch. Okay, so I can give a pass on the Mike Williams pick. But no way on McCargo. Colossal strech or not, it's still a blunder by the draft guru's at one Bills drive. BigPappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The lesson to be learned is don't waste 1st or 2nd round picks on RBs. It's better value to pick other positions, and get RBs in lower rounds or undrafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 How come no one, ever, wants to say that most likely this trade was Ralphs call. Ralph made the call to draft him, and Ralph most likely made the call to trade him. With OJ being associated with his team, and PacMan stuff going on then, and Goddell coming in with his code of conduct etc... Ralph did not want this guy on HIS team.... why do people refuse to believe this was not a football trade....Ralph wanted this guy gone...and i agree with him. possibly. ultimately, every move can be traced back to wilson. but i believe the proximate cause was nix. he was/is a buffoon. the fact that he couldn't produce a team that leveraged lynch's considerable skills and used a top draft choice to take another low yielding rb shoulda got him fired long ago. as it is, he's just now being shown the door. ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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