PromoTheRobot Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Not just that, but has anyone paid any attention to the current stadium? It's old, it's dilapidated, it's outdated as an NFL venue in terms of fan experience, and the structural integrity isn't exactly sustainable over the long-term. Those upper decks aren't standing forever.
Hammered a Lot Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Not just that, but has anyone paid any attention to the current stadium? It's old, it's dilapidated, it's outdated as an NFL venue in terms of fan experience, and the structural integrity isn't exactly sustainable over the long-term. I love the fan experience. Best sight lines in the NFL. I have no problem with my seats. Restrooms, no problem. Concessions, no problem, we grab some food as we walk in. As far as structural integrity, I have talked with some of the workers and higher ups who said the stadium could last another 30 years. What is long term to you? Dilapidated?????
thebandit27 Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 I love the fan experience. Best sight lines in the NFL. I have no problem with my seats. Restrooms, no problem. Concessions, no problem, we grab some food as we walk in. As far as structural integrity, I have talked with some of the workers and higher ups who said the stadium could last another 30 years. What is long term to you? Dilapidated????? I'll just say that the engineering firm I worked for disagrees with that 30-year assessment. Markedly. Sight lines are fine, but when we're experiencing raw sewage leaks into the concourse on game day, and require $130M in renovations just to bring the bathrooms and concessions up to current day standards, that says plenty to me. Visiting Heinz Field and Ford Field--newer venues that aren't state of the art by any means--really opens one's eyes as to how outdated The Ralph really is IMO.
May Day 10 Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 they may be sewage leaks, but they're OUR sewage leaks
Jobu Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) I live in Wisconsin and have been going to games at Lambeau for over 20 years. It was a s***hole before they remodeled it. Leaking sewage was the least of their problems. The friggin' exterior was corrugated tin for pete's sake. Lambeau is a first class stadium now. I would love to see the same type of transformation happen to the Ralph. Edited February 4, 2015 by Show Me The Baby
Hammered a Lot Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 I'll just say that the engineering firm I worked for disagrees with that 30-year assessment. Markedly. Sight lines are fine, but when we're experiencing raw sewage leaks into the concourse on game day, and require $130M in renovations just to bring the bathrooms and concessions up to current day standards, that says plenty to me. Visiting Heinz Field and Ford Field--newer venues that aren't state of the art by any means--really opens one's eyes as to how outdated The Ralph really is IMO. $130 million for bathroom and concession work only! Wow. As far as the sewage leak it was NOT caused by the old pipes but by the NEW pipes not being lined up correctly.
thebandit27 Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 $130 million for bathroom and concession work only! Wow. As far as the sewage leak it was NOT caused by the old pipes but by the NEW pipes not being lined up correctly. Obviously there were other items besides bathrooms and concessions in the latest round of renovations (scoreboard, outer concourses, bracing of the worst sections of the upper deck, etc.). My point is simply that the money spent to renovate merely brought the current facilities closer to the rest of the league's venues...they're still far, far behind most stadia.
dwight in philly Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 I live in Wisconsin and have been going to games at Lambeau for over 20 years. It was a s***hole before they remodeled it. Leaking sewage was the least of their problems. The friggin' exterior was corrugated tin for pete's sake. Lambeau is a first class stadium now. I would love to see the same type of transformation happen to the Ralph. totally agree... and it has nothing to do with the "use of taxpayer dollars" adage.. just feel the ralph is a football stadium.. reeks football..
eball Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 totally agree... and it has nothing to do with the "use of taxpayer dollars" adage.. just feel the ralph is a football stadium.. reeks football.. It reeks alright...
K D Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 It reeks alright... and so has the team. maybe we need a fresh start
dwight in philly Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) It reeks alright... not what i meant.. it is total football .. from the tailgating to the sight lines.. but you are quite "quick".. consider doing stand up.. Edited February 4, 2015 by dwight in philly
Jobu Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 and so has the team. maybe we need a fresh start You know the Packers sucked big time for almost 30 years... Once Vince left -- that was it until Ron Wolf showed up. Some colossally bad teams in there. Anyone remember Charles "Hit list" Martin? Lambeau is a Football cathedral. A lot of that has to do with the tailgating before and the bar crawl after. I like the same things about the Ralph. I like that it is not oriented in the way the NFL likes. I like that my childhood teams played there. I friggin' love the tailgating. Green Bay, Buffalo, and Kansas City. Been to all three many times. Three of my favorite places to go for an NFL game. Green Bay and Kansas City didn't change it. I sure as hell hope we don't either.
CWink07 Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Tailgating shouldn't be an issue I wouldn't think. I experience two different types in Louisiana. LSU which is similar to the Ralph with the big open fields, and the Superdome in New Orleans is located downtown. LSU is more fun IMO, but people still have tailgating all over downtown too in New Orleans. It is smaller groups just cause of less space, but it is still a fun experience.
eball Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 You know the Packers sucked big time for almost 30 years... Once Vince left -- that was it until Ron Wolf showed up. Some colossally bad teams in there. Anyone remember Charles "Hit list" Martin? Lambeau is a Football cathedral. A lot of that has to do with the tailgating before and the bar crawl after. I like the same things about the Ralph. I like that it is not oriented in the way the NFL likes. I like that my childhood teams played there. I friggin' love the tailgating. Green Bay, Buffalo, and Kansas City. Been to all three many times. Three of my favorite places to go for an NFL game. Green Bay and Kansas City didn't change it. I sure as hell hope we don't either. Downtown Buffalo before and after games will be a heluva lot of fun too, particularly with everything the Pegulas are doing down there. Cherish your memories, but don't believe for a moment a great experience can't be had elsewhere.
Jobu Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Downtown Buffalo before and after games will be a heluva lot of fun too, particularly with everything the Pegulas are doing down there. Cherish your memories, but don't believe for a moment a great experience can't be had elsewhere. Of course a great experience could be had downtown. An interesting concept for sure. I just don't see the point. Traffic would be ridiculous, and I don't believe for minute in the so called economic boost it would give downtown. St. Louis used the same argument when they built the TWA Dome (Now Edward Jones Dome) downtown. Just has not been the boon it was purported to be. Couple all of that with an existing field, parking, and tradition, I think a rebuild like Lambeau or Arrowhead is the better move.
Boatdrinks Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Of course a great experience could be had downtown. An interesting concept for sure. I just don't see the point. Traffic would be ridiculous, and I don't believe for minute in the so called economic boost it would give downtown. St. Louis used the same argument when they built the TWA Dome (Now Edward Jones Dome) downtown. Just has not been the boon it was purported to be. Couple all of that with an existing field, parking, and tradition, I think a rebuild like Lambeau or Arrowhead is the better move. Except for the fact that a complete remodel akin to those at Arrowhead and Lambeu was on the table and rejected by County officials , who chose the less expensive option. With the Pegulas now in control, it is highly unlikely that a remodel will be an option this time. Downtown makes sense because of the proximity to FNC and Pegulaville. It also seems that is just where the stadium should have been in the first place. If you want tradition, the Rockpile was in the city limits. The far flung Orchard Park location makes no sense in this era of finally realizing that the city needs to be vibrant and active and should get most of new development. For years it was neglected as just an afterthought to suburbia. We' ve got things going in the right direction and the new stadium downtown will be a part of that.
Jobu Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Except for the fact that a complete remodel akin to those at Arrowhead and Lambeu was on the table and rejected by County officials , who chose the less expensive option. With the Pegulas now in control, it is highly unlikely that a remodel will be an option this time. Downtown makes sense because of the proximity to FNC and Pegulaville. It also seems that is just where the stadium should have been in the first place. If you want tradition, the Rockpile was in the city limits. The far flung Orchard Park location makes no sense in this era of finally realizing that the city needs to be vibrant and active and should get most of new development. For years it was neglected as just an afterthought to suburbia. We' ve got things going in the right direction and the new stadium downtown will be a part of that. I disagree. Look at Dallas, new stadium in Arlington. Look at San Fran, new stadium in San Jose. The reason a full upgrade was rejected at the county level was because of the money outlay. That same concern would exist for the outlay required for infrastructure improvements to make a downtown stadium viable. Even if the Pegulas pay for the whole damn stadium downtown you still have a ton of infrastructure upgrades that would have to happen on the state dime for it to be viable. They can build it, but getting people in and out is a state/county problem. We'll see how it all shakes out. I really am not that hung up on it. Everyone has a preference and my preference is OP. Specifically, redoing the Ralph. Edited February 4, 2015 by Show Me The Baby
The Wiz Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 I disagree. Look at Dallas, new stadium in Arlington. Look at San Fran, new stadium in San Jose. The reason a full upgrade was rejected at the county level was because of the money outlay. That same concern would exist for the outlay required for infrastructure improvements to make a downtown stadium viable. Even if the Pegulas pay for the whole damn stadium downtown you still have a ton of infrastructure upgrades that would have to happen on the state dime for it to be viable. They can build it, but getting people in and out is a state/county problem. We'll see how it all shakes out. I really am not that hung up on it. Everyone has a preference and my preference is OP. It is a state/county problem but so has the renovations of the current stadium that have helped WNY almost nothing. The roads and lots around RWS are paved and have less pot holes. Other than that, it provided nothing to the economy but still cost tax payers. At least if the stadium is downtown the people around that live/work there can see what they are paying for. Not to mention the Pegula's are willing to spend whatever it takes to make downtown bloom. I wouldn't be surprised if the skyway is torn down and a new thruway junction is created. Imagine something along the railroad lines that accommodates 6 lane traffic from Blasdell to the 190.
Jobu Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't be surprised if the skyway is torn down and a new thruway junction is created. Imagine something along the railroad lines that accommodates 6 lane traffic from Blasdell to the 190. That would be the way to deal with it for sure. Pegula's can't pay for that though, and ultimately I think that is where the problem is going to be. Edited February 4, 2015 by Show Me The Baby
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) These are the kinds of niche things that you will see with a new stadium: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12284494/miami-dolphins-build-living-room-suites-sun-life-stadium. That comes to $1875 per seat per game (including preseason). I will guarantee that they will be structured where the ticket cost is one number ($200 maybe) and the amenities $1675 (for example). This is an example of how to manipulate the shared revenues vs. the nonshared. The players get a cut of the total so they don't care. As you can see that nonshared drives the cap but teams like the Bills wouldn't be getting that cut to account for the higher cap. We have been talking a lot about it so I thought that this was a perfect illustration of what it all means. Edited February 5, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
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