truth on hold Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Ryan was a couple plays away from being in the supwr bowl 2 years in a row. Romans team was a play away from winning it. Yeah, I'm OK with this
agardin Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I hear you w/r to Wilson and thought the same thing going into last years playoffs but since then he has been fantastic. Does he play on a good team, yes but he is growing into something special.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I'll give you Rodgers but Wilson is a product of a system built for him. How many times has Rodgers put the team/game on his shoulders and won compared to Wilson. I know Wilson is great in that offense, but he's not a QB comparable to Rodgers. Stats don't tell anything but Wilson hardly ever throws for over 300 yards (which is apparently the staple of a franchise QB at TBD to some). If Rodgers is under 300, they lost the game. I'm biased but to me, he's incredible, and just does anything they need him to. He could throw for 300 yards. He doesn't have any weaknesses to his passing game whatsoever. He's great, which is why he's about to be the highest paid player in the entire league. They don't have good receivers either. Not to mention that he was 16th in the league in rushing, with 849 yards and 6 Tds.
agardin Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Going back to the OP. I tend to agree, Roman's running game, a couple of upgrades along the Oline might even see the magical return of EJ as a relevant player. Too optimistic?
Max997 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) The most important part of developing a franchise QB is having a QB that can become a franchise QB. Rex was given Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith...does anyone think either of them are franchise QBs? Alex Smith was considered a bust at one point then played well enough to trade him for I believe two second round picks. Kaepernick is a great athlete but as an NFL QB has a lot of flaws. I'm still trying to figure out what the "eye" formation is Edited January 18, 2015 by Max997
The Wiz Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) The most important part of developing a franchise QB is having a QB that can become a franchise QB. Rex was given Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith...does anyone think either of them are franchise QBs? Alex Smith was considered a bust at one point then played well enough to trade him for I believe two second round picks. Kaepernick is a great athlete but as an NFL QB has a lot of flaws. I'm still trying to figure out what the "eye" formation is that's the defense that EJ can't read. I'm biased but to me, he's incredible, and just does anything they need him to. He could throw for 300 yards. He doesn't have any weaknesses to his passing game whatsoever. He's great, which is why he's about to be the highest paid player in the entire league. They don't have good receivers either. Not to mention that he was 16th in the league in rushing, with 849 yards and 6 Tds. I agree he is incredible, I just think he is a product of a great seattle offense. They might not have good receivers but they still are expected to catch a ball thrown to them aren't they? The game they play is ground and pound, hit some short routes and let Wilson use his legs when needed (more often than not). When he does use his legs is when you see some of his better completions. Edited January 18, 2015 by The Wiz
Kelly the Dog Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 that's the defense that EJ can't read. I agree he is incredible, I just think he is a product of a great seattle offense. They might not have good receivers but they still are expected to catch a ball thrown to them aren't they? The game they play is ground and pound, hit some short routes and let Wilson use his legs when needed (more often than not). I understand that. I don't understand why people think he can't do something more times than you see him do every game. He has a cannon for an arm, throws a good deep ball, is accurate, has touch, etc. What is it that you don't think he can do. In his senior year, he equaled Luck and RG3, and led the nation in passing, a point or so ahead of RG3.
agardin Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 If Wilson was 6'3 he would have been right there with Luck in the draft. He does have it all. Arm, brains, legs and intangibles.
BELLABEANER Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I'll give you Rodgers but Wilson is a product of a system built for him. How many times has Rodgers put the team/game on his shoulders and won compared to Wilson. I know Wilson is great in that offense, but he's not a QB comparable to Rodgers. Stats don't tell anything but Wilson hardly ever throws for over 300 yards (which is apparently the staple of a franchise QB at TBD to some). If Rodgers is under 300, they lost the game. This is one of the more ridiculous takes Ive read. Wilson is great. Look at his yards per attempt and his TD to int ratio not to mention his quarterback rating and the fact that he ran for 849 yards this year. Hes one of the most efficient Qbs Ive ever seen at his age. Or at any age for that matter.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 If coaches could develop franchise QBs, there would be more of them.
negativo Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Coaching is important. We all get it. But only, say 10% of what is important to find a franchise QB. 90% of it is the QB himself, his skills and his drive and his line and his experience and his receivers. Pete Carroll and Darrel Bevel would not make Russell Wilson out of Geno Smith. Chances are extremely high that Greg Roman and David Lee, for all intents and purposes, would have made Russell Wilson into Russell Wilson, and Pete Carroll and Darrel Bevel would have made Geno Smith into Geno Smith.
bklnpete Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The "eye" formation? Really? That's when I stopped reading.
#34fan Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Here's the thing... A critical part of what is commonly called QB "development" is nothing more than recognizing your QB's abilities, and putting the QB in the best position to succeed... Alex Smith's progress took a while because of two things: -The college system he played in, and the fact that Smith is NOT a natural leader of men... Colin Kaepernick's development started in the right direction, but went awry when Roman and Harbaugh attempted to turn him into a pocket passer. Kaaepernick was killing the league with his long runs.. Roman SHOULD have expanded on that ability. Instead, he got away from it with disatrous results... Rex has been the enemy for so long, I struggle with the fact that he's now our HC... IMO, he's left one QB quagmire for another... I wouldn't mind too much if I thought he could help, but so far, Rex's seems adept at turning QB's into backups or worse... Edited January 18, 2015 by #34fan
RealityCheck Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 QB development is the responsibility of the QB. There is no time in todays NFL once training camp starts to nurse a young QB along. They are either making enough plays to win or they don't. The onus is on these young guys to do everything in their power outside of organized team events to get better. You can't throw games away trying to get a young QB to learn their lessons when perhaps someone else on the roster can get it done. Few owners enjoy seeing over 100 million dollars-plus in payroll flushed down the tubes for 16 games as they watch a young QB continuously burn their hand on the stove until some lights come on, which doesn't always happen. The cream always rises to the top. There is only so much coaching can do, the circuit has to be completed by that player and thanks to the CBA, there is only so much time to do extra work with these guys and then it's up to the player. If Manuel is truly obsessed with becoming a great QB, then he will make progress. If he approaches the QB position with the new staff as simply another day at the office, then I would expect more of the same from him. At the end of the day, he alone owns his body of work. What he absorbs mentally is completely on him. People flunk out of college all the time. Odds are it's not the teachers fault, you either aren't smart enough to begin with or you failed to adequately apply yourself.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 QB development is the responsibility of the QB. There is no time in todays NFL once training camp starts to nurse a young QB along. They are either making enough plays to win or they don't. The onus is on these young guys to do everything in their power outside of organized team events to get better. You can't throw games away trying to get a young QB to learn their lessons when perhaps someone else on the roster can get it done. Few owners enjoy seeing over 100 million dollars-plus in payroll flushed down the tubes for 16 games as they watch a young QB continuously burn their hand on the stove until some lights come on, which doesn't always happen. The cream always rises to the top. There is only so much coaching can do, the circuit has to be completed by that player and thanks to the CBA, there is only so much time to do extra work with these guys and then it's up to the player. If Manuel is truly obsessed with becoming a great QB, then he will make progress. If he approaches the QB position with the new staff as simply another day at the office, then I would expect more of the same from him. At the end of the day, he alone owns his body of work. What he absorbs mentally is completely on him. People flunk out of college all the time. Odds are it's not the teachers fault, you either aren't smart enough to begin with or you failed to adequately apply yourself. Well that is a bit silly if you think about it. Why is there no time to develop QB's now? Is there some master clock installed at NFL HQ? Or are people just more impatient now? Winning was no less important in the 60's and 70's. Players need time to develop. In fact QBs need more time than ever these days because defenses have become far more complicated. Throwing a player in and expecting them to just perform naturally is begging for failure. Maybe that is more the reason of ttoday's lack of QB talent...impatience.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I hate to make this another EJ thread, but I seriously believe that that's what they go with this year. EJ has similar talents and flaws as Kaepernick...and may in fact have more experience doing multiple reads. The Bills don't have a first round pick, and even if they still had it I doubt they could trade up far enough to get Mariota or Winston. Everyone else is a project at best, in which case I don't see them being better than EJ right away. When it comes to the free agent choices/trades with their cap space they have to choose between: A) Mortgaging the farm to get a guy like Bradford/Cutler who has warts aplenty or B) Upgrading the O-line, making sure we either re-sign or upgrade Spiller and Hughes, and bringing in a competent TE to go along with Chandler.
CSBill Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I think the Bills will make an effort to get Chase Daniels, he has the experience, skill set, and moxy to be the perfect fit for Romans's system. At least I hope they do, I see him as a Russell Wilson type of QB. Athleticism when he needs it, can throw the ball well, and seems to have a high football IQ.
RealityCheck Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Well that is a bit silly if you think about it. Why is there no time to develop QB's now? Is there some master clock installed at NFL HQ? Or are people just more impatient now? Winning was no less important in the 60's and 70's. Players need time to develop. In fact QBs need more time than ever these days because defenses have become far more complicated. Throwing a player in and expecting them to just perform naturally is begging for failure. Maybe that is more the reason of ttoday's lack of QB talent...impatience. Exactly. Believe me, I wish this wasn't the case, but it is what I have observed. College coaches run schemes to win, not develop pocket passers. More QBs are forced to run gimmicky offenses that relate little to the pro game...impatience. NFL HCs have short leashes. If they don't win early and often enough, they are fired...impatience. Ever since Parcells jumped around getting all those teams to the playoffs within 3 years has created a 3 year expectation for many coaches from ownership...impatience. The CBA offers less and less time for mandatory work, which leads to more...impatience. The current NFL is loaded with extreme impatience, and it increases in proportion to the amount of money on the line and agents involved. It is an environment that is most definitely ruled by the quick and the dead. GMs and HCs have little time to focus on much outside of trying to win on Sunday, no matter how that is accomplished. This culture of impatience league wide dictates that the onus is on the player to work extremely hard outside of the CBA approved structure and be a disciple of their particular disciplines. I agree with you that impatience is the problem. However, I just think there comes a point in time that you have to accept the situation for exactly what it is, as a young QB in this case, and respond appropriately to the environment they find themselves in. The schedule for the league year stops for no one. I wish in a way that it was more like 1970s football, as a culture I mean.
bananathumb Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 To the OP, Roman sounds like a very good fit with EJ as QB and Ryan as HC. I love running plays and Buffalo is - weather-wise and conference-wise - a good place to pound the ball and control the clock. Combined with a superior D, this kind of approach makes total sense. I'll bet Fred Jackson wishes he was a few years younger, but Boobie Dixon might be just what Roman needs. Spiller will likely be allowed to leave and they'll probably draft a new RB along the lines of Gore. Compare this scenario with what Hackett and Marrone tried to do and it is a big upgrade. Even with the same Olinemen. (Will be interesting to see if they develop Richardson into a good starting guard, but I expect they will.)
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