eball Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Well, there are 27.5 million reasons he might have considered. I found it interesting that he talked so openly about a TV gig, which I assume he'd land a nanosecond after he was out of a HC job. Since coaching salaries are guaranteed, he actually has nothing to lose (and a lot to gain) by coming to Buffalo... Rex knows this is his 2nd (and likely last) shot at being a HC in the NFL -- it's not just the money. I think the OP is playing the role of fear-monger when it's not necessary.
GunnerBill Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 That was one of the key takeways from the press conference for me. Rex knows it is now or never.
stony Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Couldn't agree more. You can be running your business superbly off the sports field and all people care about is the result on Saturday / Sunday etc. My soccer club Arsenal has the same issue. It is run as a model club, self funding, not relying on handouts from a sugar daddy owner, stable management, with a new state of the art stadium and training complex and continually competing at the top of the Premier League. Clubs all around Europe are copying large elements of their operating model.... and yet they haven't won the league in 10 years so the fans think the board of directors are rubbish and should all be replaced. All fans care about is the bit that happens on the grass and many of them think it is as simple as "win and everything else you are doing must be right." Not as simple as that. Not by half. And your smug, French coach... I kid, I kid. I couldn't agree more with your sentiments.
Rivermont Mike Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 9:35 on a Thursday morning. One Bills Drive. Ryan: Terry, I think ______ would be a great QB in free agency for us. Whaley: [Lots of stuff about Watkins, EJ, development, assessment] Peg: Yeah, so...Rex, will _______ help us get back to the dance? Ryan: Yup. Peg: Doug, go get us ________.
JohnC Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I was fine either way. The Bills management is and has been strong IMO. They are very well respected around the league. With that being said if you have an opportunity to get even stronger I am all for that as well. Bringing in Polian to get some feedback from him is a good idea. But considering Polian as some overseeing czar is not a good idea, in my opinion. Adding another layer of authority, official or not, creates the potential for conflict. Empowering one source of authority is the best approach to take. In that way there is no confusion at towho the football authority is in your organization. It simplifies who is responsible on football issues. Pegula's hockey experience of bringing in Pat Fontaine as an expert voice worked when he was putting together a staff. But once the front office was in place and Murray was installed as the GM there were problems associated with the extra layer of authority (Fontaine) who then didn't have a clear mission in the room. Patty's influenced waned once the hockey staff was installed. That change in status created conflict that resulted in Patty angrily bolting (bought off) from the organization. Pegula was very smart in expanding his horizon by talking to Polian and getting his thoughts. It worked out in Pegula's favor when Polian decided that he didn't want to get offically involved with the organization. The end result of having clear lines of authority worked out well for the owner and the organization. Very often by keeping the management structure clear and simple you know exactly who is to be held accountable when things work out well and when they don't.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Bringing in Polian to get some feedback from him is a good idea. But considering Polian as some overseeing czar is not a good idea, in my opinion. Adding another layer of authority, official or not, creates the potential for conflict. Empowering one source of authority is the best approach to take. In that way there is no confusion at towho the football authority is in your organization. It simplifies who is responsible on football issues. Pegula's hockey experience of bringing in Pat Fontaine as an expert voice worked when he was putting together a staff. But once the front office was in place and Murray was installed as the GM there were problems associated with the extra layer of authority (Fontaine) who then didn't have a clear mission in the room. Patty's influenced waned once the hockey staff was installed. That change in status created conflict that resulted in Patty angrily bolting (bought off) from the organization. Pegula was very smart in expanding his horizon by talking to Polian and getting his thoughts. It worked out in Pegula's favor when Polian decided that he didn't want to get offically involved with the organization. The end result of having clear lines of authority worked out well for the owner and the organization. Very often by keeping the management structure clear and simple you know exactly who is to be held accountable when things work out well and when they don't. Really well put. Yeah, I didn't feel that another layer was needed either. Anytime you have an opportunity to get talented people involved in your operation I am all for it but not at the expense of what is working.
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 If everyone recalls there was dysfunction, and friction between Marrone and Whaley, and probably a big reason as to why Marrone walked away. Not that I'm unhappy that he left, and Hackett is also gone http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials Please don't lay the blame of the O line all on Doug Marrone, as he wanted different players and was told what he had was good enough. The talent on the line actually downgraded from first Levitre, and then from Doug Legursky. Yeah, as hard as that is to believe the line was actually better in 2013 with Legursky. The line wasn't that good to begin with and got worse in Whaley's first year, and became near the very worst in the league his second year. "The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woods was benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)." Really? Did anyone else watch Urbik being pushed 5 yards into the backfield by Raiders Antonio Smith to pin Spiller behind the line 5 yards? As bad as Cyril Richardson played at times I never saw him being owned that badly.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 If everyone recalls there was dysfunction, and friction between Marrone and Whaley, and probably a big reason as to why Marrone walked away. Not that I'm unhappy that he left, and Hackett is also gone http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials Please don't lay the blame of the O line all on Doug Marrone, as he wanted different players and was told what he had was good enough. The talent on the line actually downgraded from first Levitre, and then from Doug Legursky. Yeah, as hard as that is to believe the line was actually better in 2013 with Legursky. The line wasn't that good to begin with and got worse in Whaley's first year, and became near the very worst in the league his second year. "The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woods was benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)." Really? Did anyone else watch Urbik being pushed 5 yards into the backfield by Raiders Antonio Smith to pin Spiller behind the line 5 yards? As bad as Cyril Richardson played at times I never saw him being owned that badly. You keep posting the bolded and have yet to provide an article or post anywhere where it's mentioned that "Marrone wanted different players and was told what he had was good enough." Where was that ever said?
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Bringing in Polian to get some feedback from him is a good idea. But considering Polian as some overseeing czar is not a good idea, in my opinion. Adding another layer of authority, official or not, creates the potential for conflict. Empowering one source of authority is the best approach to take. In that way there is no confusion at towho the football authority is in your organization. It simplifies who is responsible on football issues. Pegula's hockey experience of bringing in Pat Fontaine as an expert voice worked when he was putting together a staff. But once the front office was in place and Murray was installed as the GM there were problems associated with the extra layer of authority (Fontaine) who then didn't have a clear mission in the room. Patty's influenced waned once the hockey staff was installed. That change in status created conflict that resulted in Patty angrily bolting (bought off) from the organization. Pegula was very smart in expanding his horizon by talking to Polian and getting his thoughts. It worked out in Pegula's favor when Polian decided that he didn't want to get offically involved with the organization. The end result of having clear lines of authority worked out well for the owner and the organization. Very often by keeping the management structure clear and simple you know exactly who is to be held accountable when things work out well and when they don't. "Ryan has control of who plays on Sunday and Whaley has control of who will be on the roster for Ryan to pick for the lineup, leaving plenty of area for conflict. What will happen when those conflicts arise? “That’s an interesting question. I think the way we look at it is there’s going to be disagreements, and you want that. You want internal debate, external unity. Does it go to Terry? Does it go to Kim? Does it go to Russ? Wherever it goes, as long as it’s the best decision for the Buffalo Bills,” Whaley said, via John Kryk of Sun Media. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/15/doug-whaley-not-worried-about-potential-power-struggle-with-rex-ryan/ Sounds to me like GM Doug Whaley is unsure of the entire situation, which is not good, and goes back to the same dysfunction with Marrone. Question, are the Pegula's qualified to run the football side of operations? Is Russ Brandon? Was Ralph Wilson ever? This is the entire reasoning behind wanting an NFL football operations president. Its not adding another layer of authority, its adding the proper football intelligence to the top of the chain.
eball Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 If everyone recalls there was dysfunction, and friction between Marrone and Whaley, and probably a big reason as to why Marrone walked away. Not that I'm unhappy that he left, and Hackett is also gone http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials Please don't lay the blame of the O line all on Doug Marrone, as he wanted different players and was told what he had was good enough. The talent on the line actually downgraded from first Levitre, and then from Doug Legursky. Yeah, as hard as that is to believe the line was actually better in 2013 with Legursky. The line wasn't that good to begin with and got worse in Whaley's first year, and became near the very worst in the league his second year. "The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woods was benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)." Really? Did anyone else watch Urbik being pushed 5 yards into the backfield by Raiders Antonio Smith to pin Spiller behind the line 5 yards? As bad as Cyril Richardson played at times I never saw him being owned that badly. You say this (what I've bolded in red) as if it is a known fact -- which it is not. This is purely your conjecture. I don't for one moment believe Doug Whaley would have told Saint Doug -- an OFFENSIVE LINE coach -- what sort of players were "good enough" for his OL.
bananathumb Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Let's start a pool on the date Whaley quits (or is "fired"). I think Whaley has made some big messes, but I feel sorry for him, having to deal with an even bigger bully than Marrone. He is going to get squeezed out by Rex and his horde of ex-Jet coaches, entourage etc. He'll last through the draft, but I doubt if he's here next year. Just my feeling.
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 You keep posting the bolded and have yet to provide an article or post anywhere where it's mentioned that "Marrone wanted different players and was told what he had was good enough." Where was that ever said? You say this (what I've bolded in red) as if it is a known fact -- which it is not. This is purely your conjecture. I don't for one moment believe Doug Whaley would have told Saint Doug -- an OFFENSIVE LINE coach -- what sort of players were "good enough" for his OL. "they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on There is that, and I do believe I read somewhere else that he had asked for different upgrades. I need to find that and link it.
BillsVet Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Terry's hand is on the front office now with the hiring of Rex and changing the org chart to reflect three direct reports, including the HC, GM, and the former Mr. Smithers-Brandon. It's not what some wanted, but hopefully eliminates the issues they had last season when Russ was running the show.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 "they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on There is that, and I do believe I read somewhere else that he had asked for different upgrades. I need to find that and link it. Ok and funny enough personnel side was correct. Additionally, you don't think St. Doug gave any opinions whatsoever on who Doug W. drafted or picked up in FA for the OL. You think Doug W. just said "I'm drafting these people, make it work."? Really?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I actually think that they were pretty clear on how disputes will be settled. If it has to do with the 53 it's Whaley. If it's gameday its Rex. If it has to do with budget it's Russ. Where is the confusion?
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Ok and funny enough personnel side was correct. Additionally, you don't think St. Doug gave any opinions whatsoever on who Doug W. drafted or picked up in FA for the OL. You think Doug W. just said "I'm drafting these people, make it work."? Really? What, Urbik is awful, and only a slight upgrade to Richardson. Like I said, i never saw Richardson pushed 5 yards into the backfield by some scrub Raider DT. Well, it has been reported that Marrone didn't want to trade away the 2015 first round pick on a WR! He sure didn't use the WR that Whaley traded for in Mike Williams very much now did he? He didn't use the RB in Bryce Brown that Whaley traded for very much either, now did he? This is exactly where I think the dysfunction, and friction begins in that Whaley didn't go over the offensive changes with Marrone, or we might have seen better usage of some of those players. Plus, we might have seen some higher quality players then the ones brought in for the line.
GunnerBill Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I actually think that they were pretty clear on how disputes will be settled. If it has to do with the 53 it's Whaley. If it's gameday its Rex. If it has to do with budget it's Russ. Where is the confusion? Yep. That is what I said on the first page. I don't see a dispute.
Nanker Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 If everyone recalls there was dysfunction, and friction between Marrone and Whaley, and probably a big reason as to why Marrone walked away. Not that I'm unhappy that he left, and Hackett is also gone http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials Please don't lay the blame of the O line all on Doug Marrone, as he wanted different players and was told what he had was good enough. The talent on the line actually downgraded from first Levitre, and then from Doug Legursky. Yeah, as hard as that is to believe the line was actually better in 2013 with Legursky. The line wasn't that good to begin with and got worse in Whaley's first year, and became near the very worst in the league his second year. Really? Did anyone else watch Urbik being pushed 5 yards into the backfield by Raiders Antonio Smith to pin Spiller behind the line 5 yards? As bad as Cyril Richardson played at times I never saw him being owned that badly. From your link: "Behind the scenes, things have been festering as well, sources said, with the blow-up between team officials shortly before the end of the preseason and final cuts, within earshot of players, shocking many who witnessed it. The incident began with Marrone, who sources said has had a strained relationship with director of player personnel Jim Monos from their time together in New Orleans, getting into a loud exchange with Monos in which the men were cursing at each other to the point where others noticed ("they were more or less MFing each other," is how one source put it). General manager Doug Whaley then intervened. The expletives continued and finally team president and acting owner Russ Brandon tried to defuse the situation by getting involved in an attempt to get all parties to "shut up," as one source put it. But that too escalated into more yelling and hollering, with Brandon and Marrone ultimately separated by their peers and Marrone, in earshot of players, making remarks along the lines of "go ahead and fire me," before order was restored and the team took the field for practice." Rereading that, it's clear that it was Monos and not Whaley that Maroon was arguing with at first, then Brandon got a face full of bellyache. To me, it all points to the the coach being devious, mean, and spiteful. I'm so glad he's gone because he didn't want to be here. Ryan does and he's all in. That's good enough for me. I think the Pegulas have matters firmly in hand, they have a good vision for the franchise and they have their people in place to run the show. Rex only wants to coach. That's all he's ever said he wants to do. Whaley is the man in charge of finding talent and bringing it here. I choose to believe what I heard in the press conference: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Rex_Ryan_Introductory_Press_Conference/3794b0e4-0057-4d1a-a2e4-9b9ed5075871
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 I actually think that they were pretty clear on how disputes will be settled. If it has to do with the 53 it's Whaley. If it's gameday its Rex. If it has to do with budget it's Russ. Where is the confusion? Player talent Kirby! Defensive side fine. Offensive side poor. From EJ to trading away a #1 pick for a player other then a franchise QB. Why wasn't anyone able to recognize what a great draft 2014 was for WR's Very poor O line acquisitions for two years now. Bill Polian mentioned he would need to change some of the scouts, and I believe this to be true considering whats happened with the offense for the past two years. I don't trust the current scouts or Whaley to find offensive free agents or offensive players in the draft.
Jauronimo Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 How does Bills a thread about the org chart titled Bills Power Structure wind up being another screed about the offensive line? Learn a new trick, FearThePFF. This crusade is stale.
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