Buffalo Beeeews Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Funny. Ain't Rex more of a foot guy than a leg guy?
Dorkington Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 The thing about this year is... EJ's first two games were good/solid, second two games he struggled, considering they were his 11-14th games started, that's not exactly abnormal. KO gave us a known quantity, so I understand why we went there... but I don't think EJ was nearly as bad this year as some present.
yungmack Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) With all the revelations about Marrone that have come out since he bailed on the team, and reading between the lines of what Pegula and Whaley have said, I now have a much different view of this past season. It looks to me that the tensions between Marrone and the FO might very well have a whole lot to do with each of them having different goals and expectations in regard to Manuel. I think it's very likely Whaley, et al, thought of the '14 season as extended training for EJ, a true development year. I believe they would have even been content with a losing season if Manuel grew and showed real progress towards being the franchise QB they planned for when they drafted him. That's the only way that the Watkins and Mike Williams signings make real sense. On the other hand, Marrone seems to have decided to do as much as possible to pad his own resume even if it came at the expense of EJ's growth, which is why he benched him so precipitously, and did it without consulting Whaley. I think he might have decided to do that from almost the moment Ralph died, knowing there was a "free" $4 million just sitting there that he could grab, while moving to the head of the coaching line at another team if he could show progress with the Bills. And if the switch to Orton had gone south on him, and the team wound up with a poor record, he still had two more years on his contract with the Bills. For Marrone, it was a win/win situation. Edited January 16, 2015 by yungmack
JESSEFEFFER Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 As I recall, DM did go to Whaley to explain the benching. I think they looked at some film together and reviewed some of the calls. We heard stories about how EJ rand the wrong drops and protection calls. Supposedly Whaley agreed with Marrone's decision. EJ did not regress so much as was exposed, imo. He was exposed to JJ Watt and by JJ Watt and it left DM in a tough spot. I was ok with the benching but not the "Kyle gives us the best chance to win" for the rest of the season all the way to the NE game. I have to wonder if Whaley thought the same thing. Kyle did not produce more after the bye week than what EJ had showed and I wonder how Doug Whaley and the "analytics department" viewed that.
1billsfan Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 With all the revelations about Marrone that have come out since he bailed on the team, and reading between the lines of what Pegula and Whaley have said, I now have a much different view of this past season. It looks to me that the tensions between Marrone and the FO might very well have a whole lot to do with each of them having different goals and expectations in regard to Manuel. I think it's very likely Whaley, et al, thought of the '14 season as extended training for EJ, a true development year. I believe they would have even been content with a losing season if Manuel grew and showed real progress towards being the franchise QB they planned for when they drafted him. That's the only way that the Watkins and Mike Williams signings make real sense. On the other hand, Marrone seems to have decided to do as much as possible to pad his own resume even if it came at the expense of EJ's growth, which is why is benched him so precipitously, and did it without consulting Whaley. I think he might have decided to do that from almost the moment Ralph died, knowing there was a "free" $4 million just sitting there that he could grab, while moving to the head of the coaching line at another team if he could show progress with the Bills. And if the switch to Orton had gone south on him, and the team wound up with a poor record, he still had two more years on his contract with the Bills. For Marrone, it was a win/win situation. In 2004, Tom Coughlin benched Kurt Warner for Eli Manning. Warner had a Superbowl ring and the Giants were 5-4 at the time of the benching. Coughlin is a smart guy and he knew it was better for the team in the long run even if it didn't mean he gave them the best chance to win the rest of that season. Doug only carried about his record this past year, not the long term interest of the Bills. Once Orton started to fail badly he clearly should have been benched. If other players complained then tell them where the door is...they aren't the head coach, they're young and they don't know anything beyond QB instant success stories like Luck and Wilson. I think that too many fans and media types bought into Marrone's misguided keeping Orton as the starter decision being the right decision. Specifically, him saying that Orton gave the Bills the best chance to win. Once Orton started to play badly then it served the team no purpose to play him over the young guy who was showing a normal up and down slow learning curve progression for a young QB and who was certainly no longer any worse than Orton. The blessing in disguise with Manuel not being put back in is that no QB could succeed under Marrone's offense so he didn't have to suffer the avalanche of criticisms when he'd fail a second time. Manuel will now have real NFL QB coaching from a guy who knows what he's doing. If Manuel doesn't succeed under Roman than at least he was truly given a fair shot in an NFL offense and not that horrifically conservative, simple and predictable mess of an offense we witnessed under Doug Marrone.
BackInDaDay Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I remember seeing some read option plays where EJ handed the ball off but if he had kept the ball and run himself, he had a lot of room to take off. Meanwhile the poor RB ran right into a wall of defenders. Gotta agree with Rex on that one. not sure if we were seeing the r/o or the play option pass there.. where the line run block, the back and QB mesh while the QB reads the DE. if the DE crashes, the QB keeps and reads the outside LB /safety in pass coverage.. if they come to stop his run, he throws it behind them.. i think i remember reading somewhere back in 2013 how Hackett or Marrone wanted to incorporate it, and may have seen it before i knew what was seeing - looks like a busted play.. the best running it is Wilson in Seattle - Carroll credits Auburn's Malzahn for the wrinkle.. http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2014/10/2/6889005/pop-plays-and-the-pro-style-offense if the DE was crashing, then EJ never took the chance to develop the play.. not all on Hackett.. expect to see it more this year Edited January 16, 2015 by BackInDaDay
John from Riverside Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 In my opinion...EJ was NOT READY to be a starting NFL qb and got forced into it because the bills were not smart enough to bring in a legit veteran guy...... I dont think they make that same mistake twice
3rdand12 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Did he take it more than once or twice? I'm convinced coaching made it so there was no actual option this. in retrospect , this might have been a strength for Manuel. he is very good with the snap and also looks good with handoffs ( or faking it ). If he can get his eyes and mannerisms sorted by coaching, he should be a decent read option fellow. heavy on the option NS
NoSaint Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 As I recall, DM did go to Whaley to explain the benching. I think they looked at some film together and reviewed some of the calls. We heard stories about how EJ rand the wrong drops and protection calls. Supposedly Whaley agreed with Marrone's decision. EJ did not regress so much as was exposed, imo. He was exposed to JJ Watt and by JJ Watt and it left DM in a tough spot. I was ok with the benching but not the "Kyle gives us the best chance to win" for the rest of the season all the way to the NE game. I have to wonder if Whaley thought the same thing. Kyle did not produce more after the bye week than what EJ had showed and I wonder how Doug Whaley and the "analytics department" viewed that. I believe marrones quote was "I walked in his office and told him what I was doing"
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 As I recall, DM did go to Whaley to explain the benching. I think they looked at some film together and reviewed some of the calls. We heard stories about how EJ rand the wrong drops and protection calls. Supposedly Whaley agreed with Marrone's decision. EJ did not regress so much as was exposed, imo. He was exposed to JJ Watt and by JJ Watt and it left DM in a tough spot. I was ok with the benching but not the "Kyle gives us the best chance to win" for the rest of the season all the way to the NE game. I have to wonder if Whaley thought the same thing. Kyle did not produce more after the bye week than what EJ had showed and I wonder how Doug Whaley and the "analytics department" viewed that. If anything, Watt exposed the oline. Watt also helped Flacco have an even worse game later in the season. It was a fake United front. Whaley and Marrone haven't been on the same page for awhile but they had to pretend. Thus, one guy is here and the other one is interviewing for jobs still.
johnwalter Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 In my opinion...EJ was NOT READY to be a starting NFL qb and got forced into it because the bills were not smart enough to bring in a legit veteran guy...... I dont think they make that same mistake twice they did, his name was kevin kolb.
JESSEFEFFER Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) If anything, Watt exposed the oline. Watt also helped Flacco have an even worse game later in the season. It was a fake United front. Whaley and Marrone haven't been on the same page for awhile but they had to pretend. Thus, one guy is here and the other one is interviewing for jobs still. EJ's 14 games are in line with Flacco's start. Of course Ravens fans were complaining about him right up to when they won the Super Bowl with him. And then he followed that with a season of "regression" which was maybe worse than EJ's. Flacco may be a good model for what a successful EJ might look like. EJ's 14 games are in line with Flacco's start. Of course Ravens fans were complaining about him right up to when they won the Super Bowl with him. And then he followed that with a season of "regression" which was maybe worse than EJ's. Flacco may be a good model for what a successful EJ might look like. Edited January 17, 2015 by JESSEFEFFER
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 EJ's 14 games are in line with Flacco's start. Of course Ravens fans were complaining about him right up to when they won the Super Bowl with him. And then he followed that with a season of "regression" which was maybe worse than EJ's. Flacco may be a good model for what a successful EJ might look like. Solid points. I have no idea if EJ will be good or not. But he hit hurt by a bad offensive coaching staff. His 14 starts are on par with most young Qbs. Let's see what he can do with this staff. But he needs to not play timid either.
billykaykay Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Yeah, that's reasonable, as long as the coaching is there to teach him to not take giant hits. EJ.......... don't take giant hits. Done.
Agent 91 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Did he take it more than once or twice? I'm convinced coaching made it so there was no actual option Only one I can think of is the bears score.
Bill from NYC Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 "I know EJ is somebody that we looked at when he came out. I think the entire league did. I feel like he has a lot of traits that you look for in a quarterback. He's smart, he's dedicated. I think he has movement skills. I'd like to see him use his legs more than he has. Sometimes, just like we mentioned through coaching and even playing quarterback, I think a little more experience the better you are going to be. The more comfortable you are going to be. He'll certainly be given an opportunity here." I thought this was by far the most interesting/revealing thing Rex said at his introductory presser. Does this, plus the Roman hiring, indicate that Buffalo will be running a full-blown, read-option offense next season? Ya know, I think I saw the same sentiments expressed by a poster or two on this board. Yes, I think that for EJ to have any chance at all of being a good quarterback, he is going to have to run the ball. He has proven to be inaccurate so far at virtually every distance. He needs more defenders to be bunched up on the line in order for his receivers to get wide open, to the point that maybe he could complete passes to them. Jmo.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Ya know, I think I saw the same sentiments expressed by a poster or two on this board. Yes, I think that for EJ to have any chance at all of being a good quarterback, he is going to have to run the ball. He has proven to be inaccurate so far at virtually every distance. He needs more defenders to be bunched up on the line in order for his receivers to get wide open, to the point that maybe he could complete passes to them. Jmo. Much better post than simply saying a player sucks.
Recommended Posts