stony Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 You are correct. Yes, but a few other gavones on this board are misspelling it. EYE - YOU - PAT- E Iupati folks I I I not L I !@#$ing upati. That is an "I" not an "L" Capital letterrrrrs.
Chuck Wagon Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) My offseason starting with the oline: Glenn--Iupati--Wood--Urbik--Henderson See if Richardson Chris Williams or KuJo can push Urbik. Who would start by default. I'm drafting BPA at 50---hopefully a QB slips. Then drafting oline DB oline RB rest of draft. Hughes I'm letting go as I just don't think we can afford him. Hope we do...just don't see it. Too many guys have priority over him IMO. All RBs will be back. Spiller will not see big money. I'm looking to sign Hoyer...there just aren't any trades to be made for a Kap or Cutler or Foles or Bradford. We gotta hit in the draft. Or Roman works magic with EJ (who expect will start opening day). But Glennon and MAYBE RGIII could be available if the Redskins draft Winston---which is being discussed down here and the Bucs go Mariotta. That's the line I'd like to see. If we can't land Iupati then Clint Boling from the Bengals is my 1-B target. With our 2nd & 3rd round draft picks I'd like to do what the Colts did when they took Luck or what the Pats did in the Gronk/Hernandez draft: Draft 2 TEs out of: Maxx Williams, Clive Walford, Devin Funchess, Nick O'Leary We haven't had a real TE in a LOOOONG time, with today's NFL 2 good TEs (a big TE and a "move" TE, think Gronk & Hernandez) gives you the ability to go with multiple looks with the same personnel. We could be set up for a long time with Watkins - Woods & the 2 rookie TEs running a base 12 personnel grouping. Edited January 14, 2015 by Chuck Wagon
JohnC Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I think the same group could show up acceptably with better coaching and respectable with better coaching and a solid well placed vet addition The central weakness of our OL was slow feet and a lack of athleticism. Richardson, Pears, Urbik and Kujo struggled because they couldn't move. Our OL as a group simply couldn't respond to the quickness of defenses? How many time last season did you witness players blow by our players? Compare Richardson the fifth round pick of Whaley to the fifth round pick of Ozzie Newsom of the Ravens. He selected John Urschel out of Penn State (mathematical genius from Buffalo) who played) who played an exceptional against the Pats. The Bills OL as a group were overwhelmed. It had more to do with a lack of ability (especially at the guard positions)than to coaching. A Kujo and Richardson type bulky player simply can't adequately contend with strong and quick pro players. In college they their unsophisticated approach of simply out-sizing the opposition works but in the pros it is a recipe for failure. If it wasn't for the fact that Kujo was a second round draftee he would have been cut early in training camp. When Richardson played he was rated as the worst guard in the league. The lumbering Richardson was both physically and mentally over-matched. I am very emphatic in my belief that the primary reason why our offense faltered was due to a lack of talent, mostly on the OL and at qb. Even with a major coaching change unless the talent is demonstrably upgraded at those positions the results will be the same.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I wish you were right, but sometimes all the coaching in the world doesn't matter. we need two guards, the best two in free agency. Or a guard and a center, slide Eric out to guard. If its Lupati and the dude from the Jets, that's good with me as long as they're beasts. I don't want any more rooks or Urbiks or Pears or Kujo. lol "Lupati" I love what that poster started.
bisonbrigade Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 The Bills are going to a power blocking team. Under Marrone they were a zone blocking team, which the players need to be more mobile. That is why Richardson struggled. Size and strength are used in power blocking so hopefully this will help Richardson and Kuandjo. THat being said I would still a draft with our 1st pick.
billsfan1959 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I have to be honest and say I really have no idea about the level of talent on the roster. What I do know is this: 1) The offensive line was Doug Marrone's "area of specialty," where he spent the vast majority of his personal time during practice, and the one area I believe he was most responsible for. 2) Every veteran on the offensive line regressed under Marrone: Glenn, Wood, Urbik, Pears. In 2011 and 2012, Urbik had graded out positively at RG and, while regressing in 2013, he still graded out above average in the NFL at RG. In any event, Urbik graded out higher than any guard on the roster, so, in 2014, Marrone decides not to use him for half the year and then put him at LG, where he graded out worse. Pears was never great, but he was at least serviceable at RT in 2011 and 2012. He regressed at RT in 2013, but was still serviceable, so, in 2014, Marrone moved him to RG where Pears graded out as one of the worse in the NFL. The only lineman on the Bills that graded out worse than Pears, was Henderson, who Marrone replaced Pears with at RT. As an aside, Marrone wouldn't try Kouandjio out at guard forever because he said it was tough to move from the outside to the inside - yet, he thought it was a good idea to do it with Pears. 3) Every young player on the offensive line failed to develop under Marrone. Kouandjio and Richardson were both pretty highly rated and both, not only failed to develop, but looked completely lost. Even Henderson was considered a talent, but had character issues. He did play; however, in terms of grading per game, he never improved throughout the year and graded out as one of the worst RTs in the NFL. Maybe there is no real talent on the O line; however, when virtually every player on offense (not just the o line) regresses, fails to improve, or fails to develop, I have to wonder if maybe it is more about coaching than player ability. I will say, that I think one major problem on the player side was the lack of adequate talent at LG, which I blame management for not finding an adequate replacement for Levitre. Anyway, I truly don't know what level of talent we have on the O line. I suspect better than most think - but we need some better players at a couple of positions. I m looking forward to seeing what we do in free agency and the draft - and what a new coaching staff can do.
Big Blitz Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Mike Iupati is exactly how my freaking phone spells the name when I push the letter I (that would be the letter we pronounce "eye). I'm hardly ever on a PC. This is 2015. Just to clarify. I know who he is and that he's very good. I also keep saying him bc of the Roman and potentially their OL coach coming here connection.
CookieG Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I hope you're right. It's just hard to imagine that we whiffed so badly on both picks, two guys who were All-American's on top 10 college football teams. Or was the Bills scouting department and front office totally fooled by the big sexy bodies they were looking at? Did they ever really evaluate the skills, the tools, the measurable, etc? I agree, I do think the weight is an issue. Doug wanted big lineman, and that's what he got. But big does not equal good. There has to be some raw ability there. Let's hope better coaching and better conditioning will improve both. Even if just one pans out, we will be in a better shape (literally and figuratively) on the online. Richardson was a 5th round draft choice. I don't know if it should be considered whiffing, any more than it would be whiffing on Jonathan Meeks or Nic Harris. When its that low in the draft and the guy works out, I consider it a steal, (e.g. Kyle Williams). If it is a whiff, it isn't that bad. Cujo is another matter. You might want to expect a more NFL ready prospect, or one with fewer question marks than Cujo. I can understand that..it might not be the best to use a 2nd round pick on a project. On the other hand, most of the more sure thing OT's were taken in the 1st round and some aren't showing the NFL readiness expected. They went with potential on him, hoping for another DJ Fluker, or maybe an Andre Smith.
DasNootz Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Its not enough for our o-line to be average (which currently we are not). If we go into the season with EJ or (fill in the blank journeyman QB) we need a dominant offensive line to pair with our dominant defense if we want to be legitimate post season contenders.. In relation to Rex coming in - his style of ground and pound is the best bet to win now. There's no guarantee that our defense will be in tact 2-3 years from now by the time that EJ or some other young QB is molded into top 15 NFL caliber QB. With our current personnel our best option is to win now by taking the game largely out of his hands, controlling the clock and holding the other team...winning the game defensively.
DC Tom Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 The O-line talent might be a lot better than people think. We we're all convinced Wood and Glenn were solid, now they mysteriously start to suck? I don't think so. The coaching wasn't working or the system didn't fit, but we KNOW those guys have talent. And Urbik & Pears were never world beaters, but they were serviceable pros. Plus, we brought in some talented prospects in Henderson, Richardson, & Kouandjio. 2 of the 3 were widely projected as first rounders this time last year and the other (Henderson) was never short on raw talent. Everyone talks about developing QBs, but OL have about the steepest learning curve out there. Now they've got a year under their belts, are likely to get better coaching, and they just might surprise some people. Agree with all of this. Furthermore...there's nothing wrong with "serviceable." Phil Hansen was "serviceable." John Fina was "serviceable" - Fina and Brown were a solid tandem on the left side of the line for years. The fact is, you can't have players at every position that excel. It's just not possible, particularly in this salary cap day and age, but even before then it was a serious anomaly. The best you'll do is a couple of very good players (like Wood) surrounded by workmanlike players who'll do the job with some consistent level of competence, and a coach who knows how to put them all together. We had that two years ago, with largely this same squad.
RyanC883 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 LT- Henderson LG- Glenn C- Wood RG- Richardson RT- Kuoandjio Sign Iupati & things get much better I would be okay with this as long as we draft O-line in RD2, and a TE in 3 (or vice versa). Iupati is terrible at pass blocking, but a mauler in the run game. Also we could add a big back. I think Whaley is trying to build the 2005-06 Steelers. Let whoever is QB make a few big passes a game, while the running game takes over. Bettis and Co. were impossible to stop on any short yardage situation. Agree with all of this. Furthermore...there's nothing wrong with "serviceable." Phil Hansen was "serviceable." John Fina was "serviceable" - Fina and Brown were a solid tandem on the left side of the line for years. The fact is, you can't have players at every position that excel. It's just not possible, particularly in this salary cap day and age, but even before then it was a serious anomaly. The best you'll do is a couple of very good players (like Wood) surrounded by workmanlike players who'll do the job with some consistent level of competence, and a coach who knows how to put them all together. We had that two years ago, with largely this same squad. These are great points. Add another stud perhaps, or draft another great player, and the line should be much better. Also, a RB who can hit holes who is younger than 34 to compliment FJax would be great. (I'm okay with Spiller as a home run threat, can't have enough of those, but we need a sure-fire short yardage guy)
st pete gogolak Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 To me Chris Hairston is as big a mystery player as we have had in the last 50 years. He played really, really well at RT as a rookie and even played some LT well. Then he got hurt against the Giants and I don't think he played the rest of the season. I thought we at least got a starting OL out of the Lynch trade. Then second year he's shelved with the mystery illness. Career over? Nope. Comes back and makes the roster the next two years but hardly sees the field. When Henderson was struggling badly, why didn't Hairston get a start? Was Henderson that much better? Was Marrone being Marrone (i.e. stubborn)? Is he a restricted or unrestricted free agent (I've seen him listed as both)? If he restricted, bring him back and let him fight it out for a starting RT spot under a new regime and a new OL coach.
TPS Posted January 14, 2015 Author Posted January 14, 2015 Rex&Roman power running game nightmare...looking forward to it! I guess we'll have to wait and see what they think of the talent, but I'm leaning more toward the idea that Whaley's crew is better at knowing talent than Marrone. I won't be surprised if they bring in people to compete, but CK and CR certainly fit the mold of big and nasty.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I have stated this in a few threads. Whaley drafted the last draft. he feels those guys can play. They do need some coaching up. Marrone was too arrogant to realize he was not able to do all the tasks he wanted to perform at a high level. I think oline play struggled a lot due to coaching not talent. IF given proper coaching and motivation i really believe Richardson and Kuoandjio can play in this league.
billsfan89 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 If the Bills don't trade for a big money QB I could see them putting a lot of money and a fairly high draft choice into the guard position.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I have stated this in a few threads. Whaley drafted the last draft. he feels those guys can play. They do need some coaching up. Marrone was too arrogant to realize he was not able to do all the tasks he wanted to perform at a high level. I think oline play struggled a lot due to coaching not talent. IF given proper coaching and motivation i really believe Richardson and Kuoandjio can play in this league. They spoke about trying to totally re-tool their footwork in camp at one point. Not quite on par with a QB throwing motion but I imagine it was probably a shock to the system that caused some thinking, false steps, etc....
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