Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Point is that NFL success is not based only on physical traits. The examples I gave were guys who were unimpressive physically. They developed their games/habits/skills in college.I totally agree. That's kind of the point. The college coaches' job is to put these guys in the best position that they can. If these guys get drafted in the 1st & can't cut it (a la Tebow) that is Urban doing a great job. He got a guy that can't throw a 1st round contract. He can't play for him at the next level. He can't make Tebow's arm strong. His job was to put Tim Tebow I'm position to win games at Florida; he did that. Success at the NFL level is just about the player. Edited January 16, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I'm confused by the "Urban doesn't develop QB's" sentiment? QBs go to the next level on their physical skills not on how they are developed in college. Urban's scheme is perfect for guys like Barrett who will never be a great pro IMO. That has nothing to do with Cardale. They are totally different as prospects. Urban has 1 of the 32 starting QBs now and will have one drafted early next year. It has nothing to do with the coach developing them and everything to do with the QBs physical traits translating to the NFL. GT runs that triple option and produced Calvin Johnson & Demaryius Thomas. It's about the player not the coach or scheme. So you don't think when recruiting that Urban looks for a certain type of qb? Do you think a Russel Wilson and Tom Brady are inter-changeable? I think the college coaches ave their "system" and they go after players to fit what they're doing to try and win as many games as possible. Some skills are interchangeable but from a qb standpoint I think the requirements are a little more stringent, especially if you have a system that works. Would you say that the classes you take in school don't matter? What a students strengths and weaknesses are? Aren't you trying to learn something to help you in the future? And don't you think what you're being taught matters? The coach does not have the responsibility to do anything for the player other than win games for the school. I think when a player commits to a coach you assume they have done the homework to understand what a coach brings to the table in terms of the players career possibilities. And I'm okay with that. My problem is that when a coach changes the player may or may not be released from their commitment free from penalty and I think that stinks for the player. It didn't seem like Jones gets on the field without the two injuries, so what does that say about how Urban views him? Hey, I hope it works out for the kid, but I happen to think he could work on his football skills at the professional level and be further ahead than playing at OSU under Urban Myer.
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So you don't think when recruiting that Urban looks for a certain type of qb? Do you think a Russel Wilson and Tom Brady are inter-changeable? I think the college coaches ave their "system" and they go after players to fit what they're doing to try and win as many games as possible. Some skills are interchangeable but from a qb standpoint I think the requirements are a little more stringent, especially if you have a system that works. Would you say that the classes you take in school don't matter? What a students strengths and weaknesses are? Aren't you trying to learn something to help you in the future? And don't you think what you're being taught matters? The coach does not have the responsibility to do anything for the player other than win games for the school. I think when a player commits to a coach you assume they have done the homework to understand what a coach brings to the table in terms of the players career possibilities. And I'm okay with that. My problem is that when a coach changes the player may or may not be released from their commitment free from penalty and I think that stinks for the player. It didn't seem like Jones gets on the field without the two injuries, so what does that say about how Urban views him? Hey, I hope it works out for the kid, but I happen to think he could work on his football skills at the professional level and be further ahead than playing at OSU under Urban Myer. He'll start
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I totally agree. That's kind of the point. The college coaches' job is to put these guys in the best position that they can. If these guys get drafted in the 1st & can't cut it (a la Tebow) that is Urban doing a great job. He got a guy that can't throw a 1st round contract. He can't play for him at the next level. He can't make Tebow's arm strong. His job was to put Tim Tebow I'm position to win games at Florida; he did that. Success at the NFL level is just about the player. I agree that the coach's job is to win. If that showcases (or embellishes) their QBs pro draft potential (different from potential for success), even better for all.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 That is his entire job description. To win games?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) So you don't think when recruiting that Urban looks for a certain type of qb? Do you think a Russel Wilson and Tom Brady are inter-changeable? I think the college coaches ave their "system" and they go after players to fit what they're doing to try and win as many games as possible. Some skills are interchangeable but from a qb standpoint I think the requirements are a little more stringent, especially if you have a system that works. Would you say that the classes you take in school don't matter? What a students strengths and weaknesses are? Aren't you trying to learn something to help you in the future? And don't you think what you're being taught matters? The coach does not have the responsibility to do anything for the player other than win games for the school. I think when a player commits to a coach you assume they have done the homework to understand what a coach brings to the table in terms of the players career possibilities. And I'm okay with that. My problem is that when a coach changes the player may or may not be released from their commitment free from penalty and I think that stinks for the player. It didn't seem like Jones gets on the field without the two injuries, so what does that say about how Urban views him? Hey, I hope it works out for the kid, but I happen to think he could work on his football skills at the professional level and be further ahead than playing at OSU under Urban Myer. I agree. JT is the guy that Urban recruited to play his system. Cardale was recruited prior to Urban. With that being said Cardale was put in position to have a press conference on his intentions after 3 college starts. He was put in a pretty good position. He was going to be the starter of the team if Braxton got hurt earlier. He was the 1 of the 3 with the pro talent. Again, I used the Demayrius & Calvin example for that reason. Was GT the best place to develop a stud WR?? No, it may be the worst of the power 5 conferences but guys have succeeded. If players have have the physical traits that translate to the NFL they will end up there. I agree that the coach's job is to win. If that showcases (or embellishes) their QBs pro draft potential (different from potential for success), even better for all.Totally agree Edited January 16, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 @SIPeteThamel: Cardale Jones (@CJ12_) and Urban Meyer go in depth on Jones' decision to return to Ohio State. http://t.co/i5fgpDAE53
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I totally agree. That's kind of the point. The college coaches' job is to put these guys in the best position that they can. If these guys get drafted in the 1st & can't cut it (a la Tebow) that is Urban doing a great job. He got a guy that can't throw a 1st round contract. He can't play for him at the next level. He can't make Tebow's arm strong. His job was to put Tim Tebow I'm position to win games at Florida; he did that. Success at the NFL level is just about the player. That I don't agree with. He should have known that Tebow would not succeed in the NFL with that wind-up. I know he still says to this day that Tebow could be a QB in the NFL and win, but it's nonsense. He didn't prepare Tebow for the NFL even if he got him to be a #1 pick, unless the idea is just to get these guys drafted and not succeed.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 To win games? In 3 words. His employer didn't hire him to develop QBs for 32 rich men. These schools don't care if Tebow bombs in the pros. They got out of him what they could while he was in their school.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) That I don't agree with. He should have known that Tebow would not succeed in the NFL with that wind-up. I know he still says to this day that Tebow could be a QB in the NFL and win, but it's nonsense. He didn't prepare Tebow for the NFL even if he got him to be a #1 pick, unless the idea is just to get these guys drafted and not succeed.Sorry for the confusion, that's what I was trying to say. Tebow was never going to be a good pro. Urban made him look better than he was and he was drafted in the 1st because of it. I was saying that his job is to have these guys play well within their system. If it means the NFL, so be it. Edited January 16, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 He'll start Urban's kind of tied to it now, although the goal is to win games. Luckily Elliot will still there to help. I was just reading that Jones still came to OSU even though Tressel left, so really he's made his own bed with Urban. Hope it works out for him.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 In 3 words. His employer didn't hire him to develop QBs for 32 rich men. These schools don't care if Tebow bombs in the pros. They got out of him what they could while he was in their school. Totally agree with that, as it applies to the real world. I'm wondering aloud whether it should or shouldn't be that way. I don't really know. But I'm leaning toward they have no responsibility to specifically prepare the players for the NFL.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Totally agree with that, as it applies to the real world. I'm wondering aloud whether it should or shouldn't be that way. I don't really know. But I'm leaning toward they have no responsibility to specifically prepare the players for the NFL.I believe that their loyalty need to be to the university that is paying them almost $5M a year (or $7M+ in Saban's case). In order to compete at the highest level you will need to keep recruiting high level talent, many of whom will go to the NFL. It isn't their job to sacrifice wins and losses for NFL prep.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Sorry for the confusion, that's what I was trying to say. Tebow was never going to be a good pro. Urban made him look better than he was and he was drafted in the 1st because of it. I was saying that his job is to have these guys play well within their system. If it means the NFL, so be it. Right. Like the other lying thread, I think it's an interesting debate. You wouldn't want your business school professors teaching the students only how to learn more about the business techniques and theories and history, without also preparing them for how the business world outside of school really works. There is a dual purpose. Teach and prepare. Sports seems to be only teach and win here with no prepare. If you succeed in the NFL you succeed. I'm just wondering.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Right. Like the other lying thread, I think it's an interesting debate. You wouldn't want your business school professors teaching the students only how to learn more about the business techniques and theories and history, without also preparing them for how the business world outside of school really works. There is a dual purpose. Teach and prepare. Sports seems to be only teach and win here with no prepare. If you succeed in the NFL you succeed. I'm just wondering. During the recruiting process the player needs to determine the correct place to for them to learn. There are many factors but at least the player makes the choice given the coach and the institution as a package. Kind of like a non-athlete student, looking to get the most for their money from the time in college.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 During the recruiting process the player needs to determine the correct place to for them to learn. There are many factors but at least the player makes the choice given the coach and the institution as a package. Kind of like a non-athlete student, looking to get the most for their money from the time in college. Yep. It's not like these kids don't know what they are getting into with Meyer.
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Urban's kind of tied to it now, although the goal is to win games. Luckily Elliot will still there to help. I was just reading that Jones still came to OSU even though Tressel left, so really he's made his own bed with Urban. Hope it works out for him. i expect him to start because no one knows if Miller will even be able to throw and Barrett has 3 more years of eligibility (and also can't even walk on his ankle yet). He's also the most physically gifted all-around QB on the team and as long as he prepares for the noon game at Rutgers like he did the big time games, he'll be fine. I wish Braxton would consider going the route of Denard Robinson and go to the nfl as a RB. Or even Marquis Gray as a TE/H back.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 i expect him to start because no one knows if Miller will even be able to throw and Barrett has 3 more years of eligibility (and also can't even walk on his ankle yet). He's also the most physically gifted all-around QB on the team and as long as he prepares for the noon game at Rutgers like he did the big time games, he'll be fine. I wish Braxton would consider going the route of Denard Robinson and go to the nfl as a RB. Or even Marquis Gray as a TE/H back. I agree it makes sense that Jones will start the year, but I will interested to see how much rope Jones gets if things don't go "national championship" well.
juno999 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I love how someone brings up the Wonderlic with every single black QB prospect, but I never see it mentioned when discussing white QB prospects. Racism strikes subconsciously quite often. I believe Fitzy scored a 50 on his Wonderlic.
Malazan Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I believe Fitzy scored a 50 on his Wonderlic. It was a 48 and it's brought up quite often.
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