RyanC883 Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Cardale Jones "Coach Ginn and Coach Meyer got info on me from sources they trust" I assumed that meant he learned from his coaches (who heard from others) that his draft position wasn't as good now as it would be next year, not the importance of getting his degree. anyone who thinks he would not have left if he was a 2nd or 1st rounder is crazy IMO. So, by that measure, he is not staying to get his degree, he is only staying b/c of his draft status. But, props to the kid for being smart enough to listen to his coaches. Too many times in College Hoops you see kids read the mock drafts, and fall into the 2nd (no guaranteed $) round or not get drafted and toil away in the D-league. Edited January 15, 2015 by RyanC883
Mr. WEO Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 anyone who thinks he would not have left if he was a 2nd or 1st rounder is crazy IMO. So, by that measure, he is not staying to get his degree, he is only staying b/c of his draft status. But, props to the kid for being smart enough to listen to his coaches. Too many times in College Hoops you see kids read the mock drafts, and fall into the 2nd (no guaranteed $) round or not get drafted and toil away in the D-league. I agree--this was a finacial decision, essentially, which is fine. Not really a "it's cool to stay in school" announcement. He would have bolted to the draft today if he was convinced he wouldn't do better next year.
YoloinOhio Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Cardale Jones "Coach Ginn and Coach Meyer got info on me from sources they trust" I assumed that meant he learned from his coaches (who heard from others) that his draft position wasn't as good now as it would be next year, not the importance of getting his degree. It is possible for there to be more than one factor in a decision like this. He also said "My education is gonna take me 10-times further than my athletic ability." And that he wants to get his degree before going to the NFL. And he wants an opportunity to become a better player. I also believe he wants to win another title. Maybe a Heisman. I think it is funny that everyone assumes he isn't being sincere about the education part. It's the whole reason he did the press conference at his HS. He came from nothing, had no father, had to move out of his mom's house and live with someone else because of her habits, was taken care of by Ted Ginn Sr who runs the school, by many accounts didn't care about school before college, and has completely transformed and grown up since coming to OSU and playing under Urban. The HS he went to is for disadvantaged youth and kids trying to get out of their situations with sports and education. He is a great example for them, and I give him a ton of credit. Edited January 15, 2015 by YoloinOhio
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 That has been my thought all along. Everyone here in SEC country has him penciled in as their starter (LSU, Ole Miss, UF, etc...). I think that Houston makes the most sense. He has been linked to SO many places though who knows.This is great...maybe he should stay @YankeesWFAN: QB problem at Ohio State?? Check out #1, 12, 18 on the 1982 Miami Hurricanes. http://t.co/Nw25p0Fjqt
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 This is great...maybe he should stay @YankeesWFAN: QB problem at Ohio State?? Check out #1, 12, 18 on the 1982 Miami Hurricanes. http://t.co/Nw25p0Fjqt I actually just retweeted that!! Kosar, Kelly & Vinny, that crew accounted for lots of alcohol & not lots of points on the wonderlic. I have so far seen Braxton linked to: Duke, FSU, UF, LSU, Ole Miss, Texas, Houston, Louisville, Oregon and Georgia. That's just off the top of my head.
Beerball Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Good for him, shows confidence in his abilities.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 ok. So two years ago Cardale Jones was criticized for belittling his education. Today he's criticized for pursuing it. Got it. The education will be there regardless! He can even do both! He will not always be a 20 something year old athlete with an opportunity to play in the nfl. Looking at Urban's record for developing qb's, it seems to imply he is not maximizing his opportunity to play football at a professional level. I hope he makes it anyway but I don't think he is giving himself the best chance, that's all.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) It is possible for there to be more than one factor in a decision like this. He also said "My education is gonna take me 10-times further than my athletic ability." And that he wants to get his degree before going to the NFL. And he wants an opportunity to become a better player. I also believe he wants to win another title. Maybe a Heisman. I think it is funny that everyone assumes he isn't being sincere about the education part. It's the whole reason he did the press conference at his HS. He came from nothing, had no father, had to move out of his mom's house and live with someone else because of her habits, was taken care of by Ted Ginn Sr who runs the school, by many accounts didn't care about school before college, and has completely transformed and grown up since coming to OSU and playing under Urban. The HS he went to is for disadvantaged youth and kids trying to get out of their situations with sports and education. He is a great example for them, and I give him a ton of credit. I respect your view on this, but there is no way any degree attainable will get him further than would a first round draft position in the NFL--and that's true for any and every top draft pick. His education just isn't going to do that. I agree with his decision. He will be perhaps the top pick in 2016 Edited January 16, 2015 by Mr. WEO
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) The education will be there regardless! He can even do both! He will not always be a 20 something year old athlete with an opportunity to play in the nfl. Looking at Urban's record for developing qb's, it seems to imply he is not maximizing his opportunity to play football at a professional level. I hope he makes it anyway but I don't think he is giving himself the best chance, that's all. I'm confused by the "Urban doesn't develop QB's" sentiment? QBs go to the next level on their physical skills not on how they are developed in college. Urban's scheme is perfect for guys like Barrett who will never be a great pro IMO. That has nothing to do with Cardale. They are totally different as prospects. Urban has 1 of the 32 starting QBs now and will have one drafted early next year. It has nothing to do with the coach developing them and everything to do with the QBs physical traits translating to the NFL. GT runs that triple option and produced Calvin Johnson & Demaryius Thomas. It's about the player not the coach or scheme. Edited January 16, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I'm confused by the "Urban doesn't develop QB's" sentiment? QBs go to the next level on their physical skills not on how they are developed in college. Urban's scheme is perfect for guys like Barrett who will never be a great pro IMO. That has nothing to do with Cardale. They are totally different as prospects. Urban has 1 of the 32 starting QBs now and will have one drafted early next year. It has nothing to do with the coach developing them and everything to do with the QBs physical traits translating to the NFL. Well put. Which makes me wonder whether there is any responsibility for a college coach to prepare a player or players that have the talent to go to the NFL versus just win college games. I'm not really sure. Other college professors and administrators jobs are to get the student to succeed in the marketplace, in business school or medical school or journalism school or film school. If a QB has the talent and size prerequisites for the NFL, maybe Meyer should coach those particular players a little differently, to prepare them for the marketplace. I'm thinking aloud, rather than arguing for that. His job description is not simply to win college games, if only because he's required to make sure these kids attend class and stuff like that. Not really sure how I feel about it. But maybe he has somewhat of a duty to Cardale to make him the best pro prospect, too.
Captain Caveman Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 It is possible for there to be more than one factor in a decision like this. He also said "My education is gonna take me 10-times further than my athletic ability." And that he wants to get his degree before going to the NFL. And he wants an opportunity to become a better player. I also believe he wants to win another title. Maybe a Heisman. I think it is funny that everyone assumes he isn't being sincere about the education part. It's the whole reason he did the press conference at his HS. He came from nothing, had no father, had to move out of his mom's house and live with someone else because of her habits, was taken care of by Ted Ginn Sr who runs the school, by many accounts didn't care about school before college, and has completely transformed and grown up since coming to OSU and playing under Urban. The HS he went to is for disadvantaged youth and kids trying to get out of their situations with sports and education. He is a great example for them, and I give him a ton of credit. Well, he's made an impression, and fair or not it's stuck with him. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8466428/ohio-state-buckeyes-cardale-jones-tweets-classes-pointless "Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS"
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I'm confused by the "Urban doesn't develop QB's" sentiment? QBs go to the next level on their physical skills not on how they are developed in college. Urban's scheme is perfect for guys like Barrett who will never be a great pro IMO. That has nothing to do with Cardale. They are totally different as prospects. Urban has 1 of the 32 starting QBs now and will have one drafted early next year. It has nothing to do with the coach developing them and everything to do with the QBs physical traits translating to the NFL. GT runs that triple option and produced Calvin Johnson & Demaryius Thomas. It's about the player not the coach or scheme. Wilson, Brees, Brady--not great physical specimens coming out. Young was. So, they say, was JP Losman. And who could forget Jamarcus Russel? It's not just physical traits. Edited January 16, 2015 by Mr. WEO
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Well put. Which makes me wonder whether there is any responsibility for a college coach to prepare a player or players that have the talent to go to the NFL versus just win college games. I'm not really sure. Other college professors and administrators jobs are to get the student to succeed in the marketplace, in business school or medical school or journalism school or film school. If a QB has the talent and size prerequisites for the NFL, maybe Meyer should coach those particular players a little differently, to prepare them for the marketplace. I'm thinking aloud, rather than arguing for that. His job description is not simply to win college games, if only because he's required to make sure these kids attend class and stuff like that. Not really sure how I feel about it. But maybe he has somewhat of a duty to Cardale to make him the best pro prospect, too. we have had debate for years here, about whether urban was doing Miller a disservice by not having him throw out of the pocket more, not run him as much, etc. Urban makes no apologies for it. His job is to win games and build a wining program. He tells any QB that they will run the ball in his offense, it's up to them if they want in. That said, it's spot on that he does put QBs in the nfl based on the stage he puts them on and the production they will have in his system. But they will succeed or not at the next level on their own merit. His QBs can get beaten up in his offense but it's not like he's not going to call design runs for these guys when Miller has 4.3 speed or Jones can run over d linemen. Edited January 16, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Well put. Which makes me wonder whether there is any responsibility for a college coach to prepare a player or players that have the talent to go to the NFL versus just win college games. I'm not really sure. Other college professors and administrators jobs are to get the student to succeed in the marketplace, in business school or medical school or journalism school or film school. If a QB has the talent and size prerequisites for the NFL, maybe Meyer should coach those particular players a little differently, to prepare them for the marketplace. I'm thinking aloud, rather than arguing for that. His job description is not simply to win college games, if only because he's required to make sure these kids attend class and stuff like that. Not really sure how I feel about it. But maybe he has somewhat of a duty to Cardale to make him the best pro prospect, too. A couple of things on that. I kind of agree and the irony is that Urban had a guy have a press conference to announce his intentions after 3 starts!!! Obviously, he was put in a pretty good situation for the next level if he was getting that type of talk after 3 starts. There is so much money in the college game that it is a fine line. Urban needs to win 1st and foremost. In order to do that he needs to continue to get the top recruits in the nation. Those are the guys that will in all likelihood be playing on Sunday's. It kind of works together. I don't think that you need to cater your scheme to that (ie run a pro style offense to give your QB a pro future). If his skills translate he will get there. Other future pro QBs will follow along to tOSU.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Well put. Which makes me wonder whether there is any responsibility for a college coach to prepare a player or players that have the talent to go to the NFL versus just win college games. I'm not really sure. Other college professors and administrators jobs are to get the student to succeed in the marketplace, in business school or medical school or journalism school or film school. If a QB has the talent and size prerequisites for the NFL, maybe Meyer should coach those particular players a little differently, to prepare them for the marketplace. I'm thinking aloud, rather than arguing for that. His job description is not simply to win college games, if only because he's required to make sure these kids attend class and stuff like that. Not really sure how I feel about it. But maybe he has somewhat of a duty to Cardale to make him the best pro prospect, too. That is his entire job description.
Augie Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 It has nothing to do with the coach developing them and everything to do with the QBs physical traits translating to the NFL. GT runs that triple option and produced Calvin Johnson & Demaryius Thomas. It's about the player not the coach or scheme. Good points. I was hoping he'd come out raw and we could get him cheap, but I tend to be overly optimistic (despite extensive experience in being disappointed).
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I'm confused by the "Urban doesn't develop QB's" sentiment? QBs go to the next level on their physical skills not on how they are developed in college. Urban's scheme is perfect for guys like Barrett who will never be a great pro IMO. That has nothing to do with Cardale. They are totally different as prospects. Urban has 1 of the 32 starting QBs now and will have one drafted early next year. It has nothing to do with the coach developing them and everything to do with the QBs physical traits translating to the NFL. GT runs that triple option and produced Calvin Johnson & Demaryius Thomas. It's about the player not the coach or scheme. Wilson, Brees, Brady--not great physical specimens coming out. Young was. So, they say, was JP Losman. And who could forget Jamarcus Russel? It's not just physical traits. Brady is an outlier, Wilson was 2 inches from being a 1st, Brees was 1 pick from a 1st. Young and Losman had accuracy issues, and Jamarcus was a fat, lazy slob. If scouts choose to overlook red flags that is their problem. Those guys got drafted in the 1st though based on their physical traits. I am not sure what your point is? If the college coach turned a guy into a 1st round pick he did his job.
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Brady is an outlier, Wilson was 2 inches from being a 1st, Brees was 1 pick from a 1st. Young and Losman had accuracy issues, and Jamarcus was a fat, lazy slob. If scouts choose to overlook red flags that is their problem. Those guys got drafted in the 1st though based on their physical traits. I am not sure what your point is? If the college coach turned a guy into a 1st round pick he did his job.yes, he did his job because a huge part of it is recruiting. The kids want to know how many players have been drafted and where. He got Tebow drafted in the 1st - crazy.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Good points. I was hoping he'd come out raw and we could get him cheap, but I tend to be overly optimistic (despite extensive experience in being disappointed).Yeah, Augie he is definitely raw. It will be interesting to see what happens with him next year. If he plays at this level he will be a top 10 pick. If he struggles some he will fall. The whole thing was interesting because he only had 3 starts.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Brady is an outlier, Wilson was 2 inches from being a 1st, Brees was 1 pick from a 1st. Young and Losman had accuracy issues, and Jamarcus was a fat, lazy slob. If scouts choose to overlook red flags that is their problem. Those guys got drafted in the 1st though based on their physical traits. I am not sure what your point is? If the college coach turned a guy into a 1st round pick he did his job. Point is that NFL success is not based only on physical traits. The examples I gave were guys who were unimpressive physically. They developed their games/habits/skills in college.
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