I'm sorry, but I think we took a big step back

[hondo in seattle]

 

I think this misrepresents some of the arguments - it certainly misrepresents mine. I agree that what you want from a Head Coach is a great leader - I also think that what you want is someone who is capable of setting a direction on both sides of the ball and then empowering his coordinators and coaches to deliver that, whilst holding them accountable when they don't.

 

Jim Schwartz was a great coordinator for the Bills but I agree with the perception of Rex Ryan as arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL today. This defense with the talent we have should continue to be a top 5 defense and anyone who watched the Jets last year wil have seen that there was some 4-3 in their scheme even if they were primarily a 3-4 base. I would expect Rex is bright enough to keep a lot of the 4-3 that worked last year whilst I would suspect adding some 3-4 OLB pass rush and disguised blitz packages. I am not worried about us taking any kind of major step back defensively. That is not my problem with this hire.

 

Nor is my problem with this hire the fact we arguably needed more attention on the offensive side of the ball. If you think a guy is a great Head Coach or a potential great Head Coach you shouldn't worry what he coached before. I personally believe that John Harbaugh is second only to Belichick as the best Head Coach in the NFL today and he coached special teams. The skillset of being a coordinator and Head Coach are not the same so their coaching background is not that important.

 

But that point about the skillset not being the same..... that is where my issues with the Rex Ryan hire are. I do not believe he has proven himself to be an excellent Head Coach. He is an excellent defensive coordinator and that is how he ran the Jets - as a Defensive Coordinator in Chief. He called the plays 5 out of his 6 years there - and part of the reason Pettine walked was that Rex wanted to re-take play calling duties from him. Meanwhile his in game management, his clock management, his use of time outs, his knowledge even of what players and one formation groupings were on the field on offense is questionable. In an echo of Marrone in Denver he was once unaware that Schottenheimer Jnr had benched his best receiver for half a game.

 

There is no question that Idzik was a reason behind the slump in New York. But Rex's inability to set a direction on offense and his unwillignness to give up any control over the defense to allow himself to oversee what was going on in all phases definitely hamstrung him. It is ok pointing to when his offense was being at least semi functional with ground and pound and allowing his defense to carry the team to two AFC title games, but you can't ignore his gross failure to get the offense back on track since then. There have been Quarterback controversies each of the last 3 years, sub packags here and trcik plays there and no direction. Can you absolve him of that blame? If you accept that he was Defensive Coordinator in Chief then sure you can..... if you are talking about Rex Ryan the Head Coach? Then no you cannot.

 

The succcess or failure of this coming Bills season will now be placed on the shoulders of Greg Roman - because Rex will be calling the defense and that will be good so he will get a pass regardless. That is not the Head Coach that I believe the Buffalo Bills needed.

Ultimately I disagree but it's nice to read a cogent criticism of the Rex Ryan instead of some of the crap that's been posted. So thanks for that!

 

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Whaley questioned Rex about his plans for the offense. I doubt if his answer was as superficial as "I'll hire Greg Roman." Rex knows offense is the Achilles Heel to his reputation and I'm sure he's reflected upon it. But let's not understate John Idzik hamstringing Rex. It would have been hard for Vince Lombardi to win many games with the players the Jets FO acquired for Rex.

 

I still think there's a certain brilliance to this. Whaley hired the best defensive mind out there to make our D even better. Then he hired the best running game coordinator available because he knows we don't have an immediate solution at QB so we'll need to run the ball. So if our coaches (Rex & Roman) simply replicate what they've done in the past, we'll have a top notch defense and a good running attack. That's more than we had this year and should be sufficient to get us into the playoffs.

 

And while Roman has never coordinated a particular potent passing attack, he did turn around Alex Smith's career. As for the impotency of the 49er passing attack this year, you really should read the Sacramento Bee article I linked earlier that puts much of the blame on Kaep and the receivers.

 

Our offense gets better because Roman is better than Hackett. Our D gets better because Ryan is a little better than Schwartz. And our player-talent gets better because FAs would rather come work for Rex Ryan and Douche Marrone. Rex might not have been the best candidate out there but I just can't see this as anything but a step forward nonetheless.

[All_Pro_Bills]

This board will be really lit up when Rex's D isn't top 4 like Schwartz. Almost a must fail expectation, with the third D coordinator in three years. Anyhow, I don't expect good things from the Ryan administration....I give him three years max and then out of town like the last 6 HC's. Frankly, I hated Rex when he was in NY as a blowhard media darling.....and I still feel that way about him. Going to be hard for me to continue to follow Bills after may decades. This is the second worst hire ever for HC.....(Harvey Johnson was the worst) Most on this board don't even remember Harvey, and thats a good thing.

We can all speculate but time will tell which way things go, up, down, or nowhere. My expectation is things continue to improve as long as the front office proceeds with making improvements to the roster with a coach that is aligned with and knows how to use the players to their best. And maybe Ryan attracts some players that would otherwise not consider Buffalo. Rumor has it Revis might want to reunite with Ryan and if the Bills could pull that off the CB tandem of Gilmore and Revis supported by Graham and McKelvin would be deadly.

 

One thing for certain the Bills with Ryan will develop a brash and in-your-face identity. Other than a team with no good QB (which is all I hear in the national media when discussing the hire) an identity is something I found lacking for a long time. Whether you like this new identity or not is a matter of personal preference. One benefit is this attitude infects and engages the home crowd 8 times a year and makes RWS a miserable place to play for the visitors.

Edited January 13, 2015 by All_Pro_Bills

[hondo in seattle]

 

Exactly.

 

Shanahan - Retread that ruined RG3

Little Shanahan - Just following his father's footsteps

Reich - too inexperienced

Gase - only good because of Manning

 

There would have been an excuse for people to complain about no matter who we picked. I hated the Ryan pick at first, but I am coming around and realizing that the only reason I hated him so much was because 1. he is a goofball, and 2. he was a divisional rival on a classless jets team. Neither of those will affect his coaching abilities, and his defenses are always good. It's not a "bad" hire, just a "not what I was expecting" hire.

This is s a good post. Until John Fox became available, I didn't really like any of the options out there. Even John Fox would be controversial - he was a .500 coach at Carolina and only started winning with a talented Broncos team where his GM thought he under-delivered.

[BILLSviaPHILLY]

I'm honestly having a hard time grasping anyone who thinks we take a step back.

 

The Bills absolutely won IN SPITE of Marrone, not because of him. He mishandled the offense (especially the O line), which was suppose to be his specialty. Players are already (anonymously) talking about how they didn't think Doug was genuine. Players love playing for Rex.

 

So defensive genius loaded with player talent + players actually wanting to play and win for each other and the coach + an absolute, undeniable upgrade at the offensive coordinator coaching spot...AND YET you think they take a step back????

 

That's just good old fashion hatin' with absolute disregard for the facts at hand.

[NewEra]

Can't you read? I'm saying they should have made Schwartz the HC and brought in a new OC. Then at least you have some continuity, and you're not blowing up the defensive system yet again for the sixth time in the last eight years. You're depending on Rex's new OC to fix the offense. Well, you could have had a new OC anyway, without screwing up the defense, and keeping some continuity on a team that has been dragged in a different direction every other year for a decade or more.

 

You have not made a rational argument. "Rex will change that identity" is your argument. Rex's teams had no identity on offense--they were a complete joke, getting worse every season. Welcome to your new head coach.

 

Oooooh you wanted Schwartz to be the HC? Even better. Hire Jim Schwartz as the HC over Rex Ryan. Did you see schwartzs defenses in Detroit when he was the HC? Did you see his defense the year after he left?

 

Our identity will be a dominant defensive team that will ground and pound you. Jets would have done that had their GM not ruined that roster. What was schwartzs identity in Detroit? Who would have Schwartz signed on as the OC? Kept Hackett? Rex got a legit OC and is a legit HC. Who would've been schwartzs DC? Who would've called the plays? How was his D in Detroit? Schwartz is a great coordinator. Just like wade. Just like norv. Some are better off sticking to what they excel at.

 

Keep crying. Cry all year. Cry all five+ years. I'll enjoy rex for the person he is, the passion he brings to the game and to his players as well as his defensive acumen. You can cry more.

[ALLEN1QB]

I am upset that Schwartz is gone. Revamping an awesome defense does not make sense. I think we will take a step back next year and finish with 6-7 wins.

[Dibs]

....

 

Also pigeon holding yourself......

Gee, that sounds rather painful. Is pigeon holding something akin to squirrel gripping?

[Dr. K]

Oooooh you wanted Schwartz to be the HC? Even better. Hire Jim Schwartz as the HC over Rex Ryan. Did you see schwartzs defenses in Detroit when he was the HC? Did you see his defense the year after he left?

 

Our identity will be a dominant defensive team that will ground and pound you. Jets would have done that had their GM not ruined that roster. What was schwartzs identity in Detroit? Who would have Schwartz signed on as the OC? Kept Hackett? Rex got a legit OC and is a legit HC. Who would've been schwartzs DC? Who would've called the plays? How was his D in Detroit? Schwartz is a great coordinator. Just like wade. Just like norv. Some are better off sticking to what they excel at.

 

Keep crying. Cry all year. Cry all five+ years. I'll enjoy rex for the person he is, the passion he brings to the game and to his players as well as his defensive acumen. You can cry more.

Who said anything about keeping Hackett? You set up a straw man and then knock him down. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

We'll see what happens. I believe that Rex's coming here is not going to improve the defense, and I'm not convinced of his virtues as a head coach instead of a DC. The loss of continuity is undeniable, as is the change of the defensive system and calls. Mario is not a good fit for Rex's system, and Hughes is not a good fit for linebacker.

 

 

Anyway, I've said what I think. If you look at my posts over the years, you'll see I am not generally negative. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I want to go on record as thinking this was not the best decision.

[ALLEN1QB]

Oooooh you wanted Schwartz to be the HC? Even better. Hire Jim Schwartz as the HC over Rex Ryan. Did you see schwartzs defenses in Detroit when he was the HC? Did you see his defense the year after he left?

 

Our identity will be a dominant defensive team that will ground and pound you. Jets would have done that had their GM not ruined that roster. What was schwartzs identity in Detroit? Who would have Schwartz signed on as the OC? Kept Hackett? Rex got a legit OC and is a legit HC. Who would've been schwartzs DC? Who would've called the plays? How was his D in Detroit? Schwartz is a great coordinator. Just like wade. Just like norv. Some are better off sticking to what they excel at.

 

Keep crying. Cry all year. Cry all five+ years. I'll enjoy rex for the person he is, the passion he brings to the game and to his players as well as his defensive acumen. You can cry more.

I hope your right. I will be the first to admit I am wrong but I just think losing Schwartz and changing to a 3-4 is gonna hurt

[Dibs]

I hope your right. I will be the first to admit I am wrong but I just think losing Schwartz and changing to a 3-4 is gonna hurt

 

Doesn't the fact that we had good success using a Ryan type 3-4 system in 2013 somewhat allay your concerns?

[BILLSviaPHILLY]

Can someone bring up the board where everyone complained that Pettine was leaving and that the Bills were switching defensive schemes?

 

This D is ONE YEAR removed from the system Rex is going to implement. And they were really good in 2013. And they had a much worse secondary in '13. Gilmore wasn't even close to what he is now. And Rex's D thrives with a shut down corner - see Revis, Derrell.

[stevestojan]

We went from Doug !@#$ing Marrone to Rex Ryan.

[seq004]

There is no way it is a step back from Marrone. It is clearly a step in the right direction. Since it's unlikely we can solve the qb in one year why not ground and pound until we solve the quarterback problem? In the meantime we might have the best defense in the league

[hondo in seattle]

I am upset that Schwartz is gone. Revamping an awesome defense does not make sense. I think we will take a step back next year and finish with 6-7 wins.

Our D didn't collapse when Schwartz revamped what Pettine had done. If the FO resigns Hughes and Spikes and the team stays healthy (including a returning Kiko), this D will only become better.

 

Most of these guys were here for Pettine and already know Rex's scheme. The transition should be easy.

[Lurker]

Our D didn't collapse when Schwartz revamped what Pettine had done. If the FO resigns Hughes and Spikes

 

I think Spikes is gone...too slow and lumbering for an attack scheme like Rex's, IMO.

 

Not sure Hughes is that suited to a stand up rush LB in space, either. He seemed to thrive with the lesser responsibilities of being a pure DE covered up by the DT and OLB.

[thewildrabbit]

This thread is for fans that don't like Rex. Lol. Are you 5?

 

He's your head coach. You hate him. Sucks to be you. Now we can all read your crying and whining for 5+ years. The guy hasn't coached a game for us and the sky is falling already.

 

Jump off the Bills bandwagon, not Rex's. save us from reading your posts

No reason for you to even be posting in this particular thread telling other Bills fans to go away. Why even enter into a thread just to stir stuff up? Want to dispute that the Bills didn't take a step back, then fine, feel free. Just don't condescend to other Bills fans that they need to go away because they don't agree with your opinion. Don't like the posts, then don't read them.

 

Try and comprehend, like I already pointed out, I'm not on the Rex Ryan bandwagon. I really dislike that loud mouthed buffoon, and so much enjoyed the Buffalo Bills destroying his Jets teams this season. A loser HC that went 4-12 last season. 3-9 vs the Patriots over six seasons, and 1-7 the last four years. This hire makes little sense to me.

[NewEra]

Who said anything about keeping Hackett? You set up a straw man and then knock him down. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

We'll see what happens. I believe that Rex's coming here is not going to improve the defense, and I'm not convinced of his virtues as a head coach instead of a DC. The loss of continuity is undeniable, as is the change of the defensive system and calls. Mario is not a good fit for Rex's system, and Hughes is not a good fit for linebacker.

 

 

Anyway, I've said what I think. If you look at my posts over the years, you'll see I am not generally negative. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I want to go on record as thinking this was not the best decision.

 

I didn't put any words in your mouth. I asked you a question. You're on record. Rex sucks. Copy that

No reason for you to even be posting in this particular thread telling other Bills fans to go away. Why even enter into a thread just to stir stuff up? Want to dispute that the Bills didn't take a step back, then fine, feel free. Just don't condescend to other Bills fans that they need to go away because they don't agree with your opinion. Don't like the posts, then don't read them.

 

Try and comprehend, like I already pointed out, I'm not on the Rex Ryan bandwagon. I really dislike that loud mouthed buffoon, and so much enjoyed the Buffalo Bills destroying his Jets teams this season. A loser HC that went 4-12 last season. 3-9 vs the Patriots over six seasons, and 1-7 the last four years. This hire makes little sense to me.

 

Don't condescend the condescending.

 

Rex sucks. Bad hire. Fear the losing, it's coming. I know. We're DOOOOOOOMED. Comprehended.

[Kelly the Dog]

Put it this way: If we hire an offensive minded coach, he has to work on the whole team and do all of the stuff that takes away from the one thing he does good that got him this job. This way, our OC can completely work 100% of the time during the week and during the game on his offense, and not be distracted or have to have his mind on time outs and situations and challenges and the whole team.

[NewEra]

Put it this way: If we hire an offensive minded coach, he has to work on the whole team and do all of the stuff that takes away from the one thing he does good that got him this job. This way, our OC can completely work 100% of the time during the week and during the game on his offense, and not be distracted or have to have his mind on time outs and situations and challenges and the whole team.

Word. Not to mention the offensive minded coach will be making his first attempt at being a HC in the NfL. More often than not it equals failure. Rex Ryan, in most people eyes, is not a failure. His record sucked his last 2 years coaching a talentless team (other than their DL). Thank idzick. I do. Thanks to him, the jets were dumb enough to fire rex

[thewildrabbit]

Ultimately I disagree but it's nice to read a cogent criticism of the Rex Ryan instead of some of the crap that's been posted. So thanks for that!

 

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Whaley questioned Rex about his plans for the offense. I doubt if his answer was as superficial as "I'll hire Greg Roman." Rex knows offense is the Achilles Heel to his reputation and I'm sure he's reflected upon it. But let's not understate John Idzik hamstringing Rex. It would have been hard for Vince Lombardi to win many games with the players the Jets FO acquired for Rex.

 

I still think there's a certain brilliance to this. Whaley hired the best defensive mind out there to make our D even better. Then he hired the best running game coordinator available because he knows we don't have an immediate solution at QB so we'll need to run the ball. So if our coaches (Rex & Roman) simply replicate what they've done in the past, we'll have a top notch defense and a good running attack. That's more than we had this year and should be sufficient to get us into the playoffs.

 

And while Roman has never coordinated a particular potent passing attack, he did turn around Alex Smith's career. As for the impotency of the 49er passing attack this year, you really should read the Sacramento Bee article I linked earlier that puts much of the blame on Kaep and the receivers.

 

Our offense gets better because Roman is better than Hackett. Our D gets better because Ryan is a little better than Schwartz. And our player-talent gets better because FAs would rather come work for Rex Ryan and Douche Marrone. Rex might not have been the best candidate out there but I just can't see this as anything but a step forward nonetheless.

Just about any head coach hire would be preferable to Marrone in my view, as he lost me when he was out on the practice field "hands on" with the O linemen only to see them get worse. St Doug is about as far removed as an offensive guru as Rex Ryan is. Marrone seemed to be more intent on helping his BFF with special teams then his OC. Yes lord, I am very grateful Nathaniel Hackett is no longer with the Buffalo Bills.

 

 

The bright spot for me is the new Bills OC! Greg Roman looks to be my type of offensive coordinator, as someone who will build a power run game to allow the QB to manage the game. Just what I've been hoping for the last 10 years. Now sadly, the weight of the entire offense is on this one mans shoulders.

 

I get that Ryan will field a defense equal to, or even better then Schwartz's #3 overall defense. Ryan had a top 10 defense his last four years, and it didn't get him a winning season. My complaint here is with this HC hire is the Bills didn't find a head coach that has an eye for QB's, offensive talent, and unless Roman is that guy, the team is screwed again this year. We won't fully know this until next season starts. The Bills already had a good defense, and needed an infusion of actual offensive intelligence.

 

I think whomever Ryan hires as his O line coach will be of the utmost importance in developing some of those young linemen. Someone mentioned that Bill Callahan's contract with the Dallas Cowboys is up. If the young players can't be coached up then the Bills will need 3 of 5 new players for that line.