PearlHowardman Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushersThis is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness. Outstanding summary! Are you from Syracuse, New York? Because I am. And we Syracuse Bills fans are the most sensible Bills fans there are. And there are a lot of Bills fans here in Syracuse giving a big thumbs down to the new coaches. Not because former SU coaches left the Bills but because we don't like Ryan, et al.
CardinalScotts Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Roman is a power running game then play action off of that. Kaep straight dropping back to throw has bad results the guy is NOT a good thrower of the football the fact Roman had their offense going as well as he did is a credit to him. Rex will do what Rex does, it will be a devastating defense with good players all around- First step is fix the o-line, then find out what you want to do at qb. This isn't a 1-15 team he's taking over and he know the division very very well +++ Lastly we had a brutal schedule this year, next years lightens up quite a bit. Things are pointing upward
eme123 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 huge optimist here The Bills have never made a move that i haven't rallied around but Rex Ryan and his 3-4 is a huge step back.
elroy16 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Derek, I really disagree with you. Here's why... We didn't just hire Rex. We hired the Rex/Roman combo and - although it took me a while to warm up to this - I think it will be a great coaching duo for the Bills. In San Francisco, Alex Smith was 1st round bust and perpetually mediocre QB until he blossomed under Roman's tutelage. Then Harbaugh decided to start Kaep over Smith and, as we've seen this year, Kaep sucks. Kaep isn't a good QB and his inaccuracy held Roman's offense back. When you say Kaep is better than EJ, did you actually watch Kaep play this year? According to the Sacramento Bee*, the 49ers left 100 points on the table this season either because receivers dropped passes or Kaep threw inaccurate balls. That's not the Roman's fault. That's lack of player talent. Roman is clearly better than Hackett - at least Roman had his rushing offense in the top ten every year. As far as Rex is concerned, over the past 6 years, the Jets were the best D in the NFL in passing yards, completion percentage, first downs and yards per play. Rex accomplished those stellar defensive statistics despite the crap talent Idzik acquired for him. Rex just might make our good Bills D into a great D. Let's imagine this: Ryan has our D in the top five (again) and Roman gets our running attack in the top 10. That's what these gentlemen tend to accomplish and it may be enough to get us into the playoffs. We almost made the playoffs this year despite an offense that was putrid at everything. Whaley is a smart man. He knows he doesn't have an immediate solution at QB. So he brings in Rex to make the D even better and because he knows Rex prefers to run the ball - something we can realistically hope to do well next year. And with Rex's assistance, Whaley brings in Roman whose expertise is building running attacks. Sure, they'd love to find a franchise QB. In the meantime, they're building a team that will get into the playoffs in 2015 without a marquis QB. At this point, all we truly need are two OGs. I'm guessing Whaley has a plan for the OL too. It's going to be a fun offseason and next January we're going to be watching the Bills on TV. * http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article5877429.html I don't think the situation could be summarized better. This defense played well under pettine and better under Schwartz. Ryan isn't stupid, he won't force a system that the players can't execute. The defense won't take a step back, they'll probably get better. I can't imagine roman is anything less that Hackett, more than likely better. Therefore, how is this a step back? A second year of consistency on offense equated a worse offense. The defense was in its first year of the system. The op makes some ok points, but I think is missing the big picture. Edited January 13, 2015 by elroy16
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 When we fill needs with draft picks and free agents, how are we wasting them?
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Does the term Defense wins Championships still apply? If so then Rex will win in Buffalo. He has far and away more talent on D than he ever had in NY and a very close second to the Ravens D that he built into Super Bowl Champs with a journeyman QB. Trent Dilfer anyone? Look no further than Seattle who won with a power running game, a young mostly unproven QB and a Superb D against an "elite" yet aging QB who ran one of the best offenses in the NFL.
Dr. K Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushersThis is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness. This is the way I see it to. Terrible choice that cause unnecessary turmoil and potentially serious problems.
Ozymandius Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 We do plan on fielding defenses beyond the 2015 season right? I could maybe buy that Schwartz would be a better d-coordinator than Rex for 2015 (given continuity and how well Schwartz did this year). But I would definitely take Rex over the next 5 years. Talent gets older. Talent leaves in free agency. Talent gets injured. Rex can overcome those things better because he's a very good tactician. I mean, we're not seriously worried that long-term Rex for Schwartz is a defensive downgrade, right?
Captain Hindsight Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 At worst I think its a wash. I dont see it as a step back. Ryan and Douchetool are probably the same in terms of motivation, but Rex is a great defense guy. If Roman turns out to be a good OC, we win
billsfan1959 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Derek, I really disagree with you. Here's why... We didn't just hire Rex. We hired the Rex/Roman combo and - although it took me a while to warm up to this - I think it will be a great coaching duo for the Bills. In San Francisco, Alex Smith was 1st round bust and perpetually mediocre QB until he blossomed under Roman's tutelage. Then Harbaugh decided to start Kaep over Smith and, as we've seen this year, Kaep sucks. Kaep isn't a good QB and his inaccuracy held Roman's offense back. When you say Kaep is better than EJ, did you actually watch Kaep play this year? According to the Sacramento Bee*, the 49ers left 100 points on the table this season either because receivers dropped passes or Kaep threw inaccurate balls. That's not the Roman's fault. That's lack of player talent. Roman is clearly better than Hackett - at least Roman had his rushing offense in the top ten every year. As far as Rex is concerned, over the past 6 years, the Jets were the best D in the NFL in passing yards, completion percentage, first downs and yards per play. Rex accomplished those stellar defensive statistics despite the crap talent Idzik acquired for him. Rex just might make our good Bills D into a great D. Let's imagine this: Ryan has our D in the top five (again) and Roman gets our running attack in the top 10. That's what these gentlemen tend to accomplish and it may be enough to get us into the playoffs. We almost made the playoffs this year despite an offense that was putrid at everything. Whaley is a smart man. He knows he doesn't have an immediate solution at QB. So he brings in Rex to make the D even better and because he knows Rex prefers to run the ball - something we can realistically hope to do well next year. And with Rex's assistance, Whaley brings in Roman whose expertise is building running attacks. Sure, they'd love to find a franchise QB. In the meantime, they're building a team that will get into the playoffs in 2015 without a marquis QB. At this point, all we truly need are two OGs. I'm guessing Whaley has a plan for the OL too. It's going to be a fun offseason and next January we're going to be watching the Bills on TV. * http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article5877429.html Good Post and spot on
thewildrabbit Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Hey Derek, you won't get any argument from me. I don't get the Rex Ryan hire either. Ryan has been 1-7 in his last 4 seasons against the Patriots, and 3-9 in his six years. He did well in his first few years taking over an already 9-7 team loaded with talent, and went downhill hill after that. To me this is like Ralph Wilson reached out and just hired a big mouth baboon 4-12 head coach, and gave him a 1.5 million dollar raise... typical old Buffalo Bills. I can't help but think this is another Russ Brandon move. On the opposite end of the spectrum the Broncos fired their HC after going 12-4 and winning the division. All I can think is Big Mouth Rex must really get into a room and take it over with his exuberant personality, as he wooed the Pegula's over. Jets owner Woody Johnson loved him, and hated to fire him. Falcons owner loved him, but sensibly let his underlings have their way, and didn't hire him. Had the new owners waited they could have had a shot at John Fox. I'll be sick if Jim Schwartz leaves as he is the one that deserved a shot at the Bills HCing job. That game against Green Bay & Aaron Rodgers was a legendary win against one of the best passers / offenses in the league. If the Bills had even a half way decent O line this year they easily make the playoffs. The Bills retain the same GM who brilliantly brought in really good players to help special teams, and the defense. Yet he failed miserably for two years to build a decent offensive line, and it graded as the leagues worst. This was a big reason the offense was again in the top ten worst. Some strange trades, and player acquisitions on the offensive side by trading away Stevie Johnson who could have helped that #31st worst in scoring red zone TD's. Trading for WR Mike Williams & RB Bryce Brown to not use them. People only want to see the good he did and not the bad. The one thing the new owners tried to do was to reach out to Bill Polian to get someone at the top of the org with real NFL knowledge. Polian stated he thought it was going to be a "light lift" with just making some moves in the scouting department. Obviously the revamping the scouting dept was to help the offensive side. Plus there was talk that current GM Doug Whaley might be gone should Polian be brought in as he stated he would hire ex Chargers GM AJ Smith. These new owners must have realized that they needed help with the upper football decisions by wanting to hire Polian, and then when he turned down the job they went ahead, and did their own hiring. This is "their" team, and they started off doing the exact same thing we couldn't stand from the previous owner in meddling in the football operations process. Now perhaps is was a consensus decision between Pegula, Whaley, Brandon, and this was the very same process that hired Gailey, Marrone. Now, the hiring of Rex Ryan helped the team rid themselves of one of the worst offensive coordinators in the league. But at the same time how much can Greg Roman accomplish if Whaley doesn't have a clue about the talent level of players on the offensive side? That offensive line still needs upgrades on 3 of 5 positions just like they did two years ago. Roman can't run a power run game with some of the worst run blocking players in the league. Perhaps they can be coached up to some degree, and yet the current Bills line players are so very far removed from what Roman is used to with the 49ers. The new owners apparently have a plan / vision for the team, and are running with it. We Bills fans can only hope for the best.
billsfan1959 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Outstanding summary! Are you from Syracuse, New York? Because I am. And we Syracuse Bills fans are the most sensible Bills fans there are. And there are a lot of Bills fans here in Syracuse giving a big thumbs down to the new coaches. Not because former SU coaches left the Bills but because we don't like Ryan, et al. I don't think I have ever read a post of yours where you were not giving a "big thumbs down" to the Bills about something...
FireChan Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Now that it's (seemingly) official that Schwartz is out, I look at the hire this way: We have the same strengths and weaknesses on the roster we had when Marrone and Schwartz were in charge of the O and D respectively, only now we have a better defensive mind running the show which is the strength of the team. Any new offensive scheme is going to be an upgrade over what Marrone was running, so even though we're still left with the same questions we had with Marrone (QB, OL, offensive identity) Rex >>> Marrone/Schwartz. Time will tell, but I think the hire was the safest way to go, and could end up being a hit. Let's see what Whaley does in the off season to address the holes, I have a feeling they're going to make some big moves. I think I would've preferred a Schwartz promotion over hiring Rex. Rex is as clueless as Marrone on O.
transient Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I didn't like the idea of Rex at first. After giving the hire some thought, I've stopped looking at this as we needed an offensive vs defensive head coach, and instead started looking at it as we needed a HC who can help us win now, not grow into the job. This is not a bottom feeding team that's starting over, this is a team that is a few tweaks away from contending. This is essentially the Jets team Rex inherited and took to the AFC championship 2 years in a row. Give us the running game the Jets had early on with buttfumble and even adequate QB play and we'll be fine with the talent on defense.
jahnyc Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I like Roman and I think he will be an improvement over Marrone/Hackett. I also like Rex, and would much rather have him as the head coach than Marrone. Losing Schwartz is unfortunate, but we probably will not see a decline in the overall play of the defense. Overall, I think things will be better with Rex and staff, but the key remains finding a starting caliber QB if we want to make the playoffs and have a shot at progressing through the playoffs.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I don't think I have ever read a post of yours where you were not giving a "big thumbs down" to the Bills about something...That must be how they roll in syracuse.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushersThis is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness. I'm sorry you don't know the difference between a big step forward and a big step back. I'm also sorry people are flipping out about Schwartz leaving just like when Pettine left. It's more about the players than the coaches with this defense. Ryan is a better defensive mind than Pettine and Schwartz.
PearlHowardman Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Rex Ryan is a loud-mouth clown! Whenever the Bills played the Jets I always wanted to see Ryan lose, not so much the Jets team. The Pegulas just got hosed!
Big Turk Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 We already ran the Rex Ryan scheme 2 years ago with Pettine and didn't seem to have a problem with fitting our players to it. Also, how can the Jets defense be terrible against the run but finish 5th best in the league at stopping it? #thingsthatmakeyougohmmm And 3rd last year...
Martifal Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushersThis is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness. Sorry to rain on your negative outlook, but Rex just left a front office that was horrible at aquiring talent, an owner of a major market franchise that had the third most unspent cap dollars in the league behind Jacksonville and Cleveland, an owner that ran the best defensive player in the league at the time Revis out of town because he is so cheap, but Rex still took that team and the Patriots to the last play twice this season. You want to win the division you gotta beat the Patriots and with a better front office and a supportive owner Rex plays them as tough as any coach in the league. So you have a problem with Roman, I would love to see how Marrone's offense would do in the NFC west over the last three years he would be lucky to score a TD against a division opponent out there. That division is brutal three straight nfc championship games one Super Bowl appearance with a strong running game and that's not an upgrade over what we have witnessed the last two years. Rex and Harbough were lame duck coaches this season and everyone knew it, the Pegulas are trying to put a staff together that can compete with the Patriots and I think they're on the right track. For the past 40 years I've watched Ralph shop for coaches in the bargain bin then the Pegulas come right out of the gate and hire a name coach that would have certainly got another job somewhere before this hiring cycle was over, giving us first shot at any available assistants. Also Rex is a players coach we no longer have to pay a kings ransome for a top of the line free agent ( Mario ) players want to play for Rex. Even Sully likes this hire and he hasn't liked anything this organisation has done for fifteen years with good reason, this team has been hard to watch for a long time, I'm guzzling the Kool Aid way to go Terry and Kim Pegula.
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