I'm sorry, but I think we took a big step back

[NewEra]

In 2009 Rex Ryan inherited a pretty good team from Eric Mangini that already had a a bunch of good players on both sides of the ball, a solid O line as DaBrick, and Mangold were drafted in 2006 under Mangini.Then the next year it was under Mangini that Darrelle Revis was drafted by the Jets in 2007. Mangini was fired by the Jets after taking them to a 9-7 finish in 2008.

 

That first season for Rex Ryan with the Jets in 2009 they only drafted 3 players in that years draft, and they were all offensive In QB Sanchez, RB Shonn Greene, and OG Matt Slauson . So that #1 overall defense came from previous drafts. In his first season he drafted Mark Sanchez, and went to the conference championship with a record of 9-7 as a wildcard. The managed that by pounding the rock, and playing great defense. The Jets did the same the very next year at 10-6, and went to the conference championship.

 

For whatever reason the Jets got away from what made them a formidable team in pounding the rock, as they kept asking the QB to throw more while they ran less. **Then they went 6-10 in 2012. **They went 8-8 in 2013. They went 4-12 in 2014. That's right, 4-12 in 2014.

 

The more important stat is that whatever Ryan was doing the first two years he lost his vision, and stopped doing. To those fans who think that Rex Ryan will now give the New England Patriots / Bill Belichick- Tom Brady fits. Rex Ryan's Jets went 1-7 against New England the last four years.

 

2014 0-2

 

2013 1-1

 

2012 0-2

 

2011 0-2

 

2010 2-1 * 2-1 when the Jets beat the Pariots in a wildcard game 28-21

2009 1-1 The final result is 4 wins vs 9 losses against the Patriots in six years.

 

Bottom line: Rex Ryan lost his vision as to what was working that even got him to the playoffs the first two years, and that was pounding the rock and playing great defense. Those first two years the Jets ran the ball more then they threw it, and the next four threw more then they ran. Don't blame this all on his personnel either because his decline started with Mike Tannenbaun as GM, and only got worse under Idzik. The more they tried to force Mark Sanchez to throw the worse they looked, and ultimately got rid of him after 2012 because the Jets no longer had confidence in his abilities as an NFL QB.

 

Now under Chip Kelly, (who I think is an offensive genius) has Sanchez throwing more then his team is running it, and managed to get a 4-4 record out of Mr Buttfumble. This doesn't mean that Sanchez can come to Buffalo and find success.

 

BTW, The John Harbaugh Baltimore Ravens have had the key to beating Bill Belichicks Patriots 2009 1-1, and that win was in the playoffs.In 2012 he went 2-0 to win the super bowl. He has an overall 3-5 record against the Patriots

He lost his vision. Yeah, it had nothing to do with losing the best CB in football, cromartie and replacing them with garbage? Had nothing to do with geno smith being their starting QB? The GM set rex up to fail. They were 26 million under that cap when they made the move for Harvin. Rex lost his vision though

[GunnerBill]

I don't think it was Rex's vision that went in 2014 - I think it was his heart. He did an incredible job to get to 8-8 in 2013 with an even worse roster than he had in 2014. They started 14 with a win and then lost a succession of close games to good teams and by the time they were 1-4 I honestly think Rex had just got fed up of fighting against the odds with below par talent. The glint in his eye seemed to go after that. We will see today but I expect that glint in the eye to be back in the press conference.

[thewildrabbit]

Allow me to explain in more detail.

 

In 2011 the Jets still had Mike Tannenbaum as GM, and he was the one that drafted Revis, DaBrick, Mangold. They had both Cromartie, Revis, Bart Scott, and QB Mark Sanchez who was the QB in 2009, 2010. It was the exact same coaching staff, and basically the exact same players on both offense, and defense from the previous two years that they went to the conference championships with.

 

The only difference between the years previous was they stopped running as much as the did in the previous years, and they asked Sanchez to pass more. Then for whatever reason the defense wasn't quite as good as it was previously, as they finished 20th in points allowed, and 5th in yards allowed. The Jets still had the 5th ranked defense in the NFL that year. If you look at their roster most of their starting defense played a full 16 games.

 

The Jets simply stopped running the ball as much as they did the two years previous, and this got them away from their ball control offense. Pound the rock with ball control, and play great defense was what made then so formidable in Ryan's first two seasons as Jets head coach. Isn't the head coach responsible for the entire team, both offense and defense ? Its why I say he lost his vision, or perhaps it was never his at all, and Schottenheimer did what he wanted?

 

 

That first year in 2009 with Sanchez as a rookie the Jets had 393 passing attempts vs 607 rushing attempts. (wow, talk about ball control) The Jets went 9-7 that year, and all the way to the conference championship.

 

Then in 2010 the Jets had 525 passing attempts vs 534 rushing attempts, and were a very balanced offense. They went 11-5 that year, and all the way to the conference championship again.

 

Then in 2011 the Jets had 547 passing attempts vs 443 rushing attempts, and went only 8-8. They clearly started throwing more, and rushing less.

 

The 2011 Jets had lost their focus on what made them such a formidable team that nobody wanted to play. GM Mike Tannenbaum was with the team thru the 2012 season

 

Now just to give more insight on what happened in 2012 the team changed offensive coordinators away from Brian Schottenheimer to Tony Sparano. QB Mark Sanchez went into the toilet under the new OC as 13 TD's vs 18 INT's.

 

For 2013 they dumped QB Sanchez, OC Sparano, GM Tannenbaum. Brought in new GM Idzik, OC Marty Mornhinweg, QB Geno Smith who stunk it up 12 TD's vs 21 INT's

 

For 2014 things got even worse and mostly because of a bad offense. Now granted the Jets have rushed quite a bit the last few years, but it was similar to what the Bills did in 2013 with lots of yards, and no ball control.

 

Pounding the rock with ball control, and playing great defense is what made the 2009-2010 Jets so good, and they stopped utilizing that pound it out ball control offense after 2010. The defense has been a top 10 unit all six years, and it didn't matter.

[GunnerBill]

The switch in 2011 was they were giving up points and so whilst the defense was still decent in yardage terms you give up points, which means you are behind more often and that forces you to throw it more. Sanchez actually had his best career year in 2011 and it was then that I think they made an idological decision to get away from the run going forward. It didn't work in 2012 they were terrible.

[thewildrabbit]

The switch in 2011 was they were giving up points and so whilst the defense was still decent in yardage terms you give up points, which means you are behind more often and that forces you to throw it more. Sanchez actually had his best career year in 2011 and it was then that I think they made an idological decision to get away from the run going forward. It didn't work in 2012 they were terrible.

Hence the reason i said he lost his vision. But then, it could have been OC Brian Schottenheimer's vision all along, as his father had won by building a very powerful Charger running team up to 2006 with LaDainian Tomlinson rushing for 1815 yards, and 28 TD's.

 

In any event the Jets lost that ball control ground and pound running attack that helped the defense so much by keeping them on the bench nice and fresh, and kept the ball away from the other team.

 

So it begs the question of what can we Bills fans really expect this year? I simply don't have the blind faith that most Bills fans are drowning in ecstasy over with this hire.

 

 

My avatar isn't just about the Ryan hire, as its also about who hired him. Its about the front office staying the same with no senior football adviser. Its about not knowing if the third worst O line in the league is going to be upgraded with some actual quality talent this season, as its been the same bad players two years now. Nobody on that line is even close to elite, or a top player. Its about if the new OC is going to be hamstrung with inferior talent on the line and at then QB position so he gets all the blame when the team fails.

[Casey D]

You're projecting. I think winning percentage is skin deep analysis in this case. There is no implication about who is better.

Fair enough, I guess I just don't appreciate enough what the point is. Perhaps the playoff teams also should not be based on winning percentage, but style points as determined by a panel of judges...

[Coach Tuesday]

My avatar isn't just about the Ryan hire, as its also about who hired him. Its about the front office staying the same with no senior football adviser. Its about not knowing if the third worst O line in the league is going to be upgraded with some actual quality talent this season, as its been the same bad players two years now. Nobody on that line is even close to elite, or a top player. Its about if the new OC is going to be hamstrung with inferior talent on the line and at then QB position so he gets all the blame when the team fails.

 

We are two weeks into the offseason. You can understand why folks would pile on you for saying stuff like that, right? TWO WEEKS.

[Casey D]

Hence the reason i said he lost his vision. But then, it could have been OC Brian Schottenheimer's vision all along, as his father had won by building a very powerful Charger running team up to 2006 with LaDainian Tomlinson rushing for 1815 yards, and 28 TD's.

 

In any event the Jets lost that ball control ground and pound running attack that helped the defense so much by keeping them on the bench nice and fresh, and kept the ball away from the other team.

 

So it begs the question of what can we Bills fans really expect this year? I simply don't have the blind faith that most Bills fans are drowning in ecstasy over with this hire.

 

 

My avatar isn't just about the Ryan hire, as its also about who hired him. Its about the front office staying the same with no senior football adviser. Its about not knowing if the third worst O line in the league is going to be upgraded with some actual quality talent this season, as its been the same bad players two years now. Nobody on that line is even close to elite, or a top player. Its about if the new OC is going to be hamstrung with inferior talent on the line and at then QB position so he gets all the blame when the team fails.

You have an absolute right to be a pessimist and miserable about things and decisions over which you have absolutely no input or control. But most folks who are in the position where they have absolutely no input or control try to see the good parts of something, and hope for the best. No one is guaranteeing everything is going to work out fine, but this time at least we have a real name coach in his prime who has had some success in the past, not a total unknown or an over the hill guy. There is little sense in debating how this will all turn out, we will have to wait and see won't we. At least your expectations are very low, so you won't be disappointed if things go poorly and you can tell everyone you knew this was a mistake. And if it turns out well, then you will be pleasantly surprised, which is always nice, like when you get that Red Ryder BB gun for Christmas.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Casey D

[xsoldier54]

So you don't believe that Rex Ryan is a better HC than Doug Maroon? And you don't think that Roman is more qualified as an NFL OC than Hackett? I see both as huge upgrades.

[GunnerBill]

So you don't believe that Rex Ryan is a better HC than Doug Maroon? And you don't think that Roman is more qualified as an NFL OC than Hackett? I see both as huge upgrades.

 

From my perspective I think Roman is defintiely an upgrade. I still don't have enough on Marrone to know where he stacks vs Rex Ryan. Rex is a more experienced Head Coach he certainly has greater expertise in a specific discipline and he did go to two AFC Championship games his first two years - it has been a real mixed bag since then though.

 

But focusing purely on whether someone is an upgrade is misguided. The question is not "are they better than the last lot" the question is "are they the right hires in our current position." I've given my view and I won't repeat it - the proof of the pudding will now be in the eating.

[thewildrabbit]

 

You have an absolute right to be a pessimist and miserable about things and decisions over which you have absolutely no input or control. But most folks who are in the position where they have absolutely no input or control try to see the good parts of something, and hope for the best. No one is guaranteeing everything is going to work out fine, but this time at least we have a real name coach in his prime who has had some success in the past, not a total unknown or an over the hill guy. There is little sense in debating how this will all turn out, we will have to wait and see won't we. At least your expectations are very low, so you won't be disappointed if things go poorly and you can tell everyone you knew this was a mistake. And if it turns out well, then you will be pleasantly surprised, which is always nice, like when you get that Red Ryder BB gun for Christmas.

 

 

 

I'm not miserable at all. I'm just trying my best to understand why so many of my fellow Bills fans are ecstatic over the hire of a HC that just went 4-12, and didn't have a winning season the last four years! His zip code changed. His uni, and team patches changed. Yet the circumstances of his situation of his last job didn't change.

[eball]

I'm not miserable at all. I'm just trying my best to understand why so many of my fellow Bills fans are ecstatic over the hire of a HC that just went 4-12, and didn't have a winning season the last four years! His zip code changed. His uni, and team patches changed. Yet the circumstances of his situation of his last job didn't change.

 

I don't think you're "trying your best" at all, because there are many circumstances that led to what has happened to the Jets and you seem to refuse to acknowledge any of them.

[thewildrabbit]

So you don't believe that Rex Ryan is a better HC than Doug Maroon? And you don't think that Roman is more qualified as an NFL OC than Hackett? I see both as huge upgrades.

I'm very happy that St Doug, the false offensive minded coach is gone, along with the moron of a choice for OC.

 

 

Its just that now everything will depend on the front office finding upgrades for the O line, and at QB. This is something they have had two years to accomplish, and each year they have gotten worse rather then better. This last year the O line was graded as 29th out of 32nd, and at one point this season they graded as the very worst line in the league.

 

I don't think you're "trying your best" at all, because there are many circumstances that led to what has happened to the Jets and you seem to refuse to acknowledge any of them.

Be specific, elaborate.

Edited January 14, 2015 by FeartheLosing

[Wayne Cubed]

I'm not miserable at all. I'm just trying my best to understand why so many of my fellow Bills fans are ecstatic over the hire of a HC that just went 4-12, and didn't have a winning season the last four years! His zip code changed. His uni, and team patches changed. Yet the circumstances of his situation of his last job didn't change.

 

You harp on his previous record quite a bit. Bill Bellichick went 5-11 in his last season in Cleveland. John Fox 2-14 with Carolina and was hired the next year by Denver and went 8-8 with Tim freaking Tebow and took them to 2 games into the playoffs.

 

Get over his record.

[eball]

Be specific, elaborate.

 

Come on, man, I don't feel like rehashing everything already said in numerous places. Crappy GMs in NY who didn't support him, a depletion of talent everywhere, crappy skill position players -- and still, at the end of the day, Rex could motivate them to give the Pats* everything they had and put a beatdown on the Fish in the last game of the season.

 

He's not perfect but he is absolutely a step forward. The issues you're concerned about (OL, QB) would be here no matter who the Bills hired. Greg Roman is an excellent choice by Rex to be OC, and Whaley already confirmed they will be active and looking to bring in competition at QB.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

forget the Defense ... worry about the offense

 

A run first oriented offense and plays where a QB can scramble. That is good for EJ. you know THE QB for the Buffalo Bills.

[thewildrabbit]

 

From my perspective I think Roman is defintiely an upgrade. I still don't have enough on Marrone to know where he stacks vs Rex Ryan. Rex is a more experienced Head Coach he certainly has greater expertise in a specific discipline and he did go to two AFC Championship games his first two years - it has been a real mixed bag since then though.

 

But focusing purely on whether someone is an upgrade is misguided. The question is not "are they better than the last lot" the question is "are they the right hires in our current position." I've given my view and I won't repeat it - the proof of the pudding will now be in the eating.

There is no question in my mind that Ryan is worlds better in area of expertise as his defenses have remained in the top 10 his entire 6 years with the Jets. Meanwhile St Doug fielded one of the worst O lines ever, and his offenses have been in the top ten worst. Ryan will field an even better defense in Buffalo as he has better players. The problem is that doesn't translate to wins.

 

Greg Roman is 1000% better then Nathaniel Hackett, no question. The problem lies in the fact that the offense won't improve if the line doesn't get some quality player upgrades. The run game that Roman is so good at simply won't work. Lots of yards with no actual ball control, just like the 2013 Bills.

 

Come on, man, I don't feel like rehashing everything already said in numerous places. Crappy GMs in NY who didn't support him, a depletion of talent everywhere, crappy skill position players -- and still, at the end of the day, Rex could motivate them to give the Pats* everything they had and put a beatdown on the Fish in the last game of the season.

 

He's not perfect but he is absolutely a step forward. The issues you're concerned about (OL, QB) would be here no matter who the Bills hired. Greg Roman is an excellent choice by Rex to be OC, and Whaley already confirmed they will be active and looking to bring in competition at QB.

and as I pointed out his team started to deteriorate with all the same people, coached, players, GM. For whatever reason they moved away from what made them so good in 2009-2010. This is my issue, and in my view the HC still needs to take responsibility for his team the last four years. Apparently, very few Bills fans don't see it this way.

Edited January 14, 2015 by FeartheLosing

[FireChan]

Fair enough, I guess I just don't appreciate enough what the point is. Perhaps the playoff teams also should not be based on winning percentage, but style points as determined by a panel of judges...

The point is that Schwartz took over a much worse team, and that's going to negatively affect his winning percentage for comparison purposes. I think you can admit that. Can you really fault Schwartz for the only 0-16 team in the Super Bowl era not winning 9 games?

[Dibs]

Hence the reason i said he lost his vision. But then, it could have been OC Brian Schottenheimer's vision all along, as his father had won by building a very powerful Charger running team up to 2006 with LaDainian Tomlinson rushing for 1815 yards, and 28 TD's.

 

In any event the Jets lost that ball control ground and pound running attack that helped the defense so much by keeping them on the bench nice and fresh, and kept the ball away from the other team.

 

So it begs the question of what can we Bills fans really expect this year? I simply don't have the blind faith that most Bills fans are drowning in ecstasy over with this hire.

 

 

My avatar isn't just about the Ryan hire, as its also about who hired him. Its about the front office staying the same with no senior football adviser. Its about not knowing if the third worst O line in the league is going to be upgraded with some actual quality talent this season, as its been the same bad players two years now. Nobody on that line is even close to elite, or a top player. Its about if the new OC is going to be hamstrung with inferior talent on the line and at then QB position so he gets all the blame when the team fails.

So what you're saying is that if Rex learns from his past mistakes and doesn't lose his vision again.....we will be in good shape.

[Kelly the Dog]

So what you're saying is that if Rex learns from his past mistakes and doesn't lose his vision again.....we will be in good shape.

I hear Lasik is amazing these days.